I'm so sick of this!

I'm going to be blunt and to the point, I'm just here to try and give some of you people a reality check. A lot of people on this board are absolutely rediculous! So many people here have wrong ideas about what it is to survive, they're ideas are so far off that they aren't even in the same ball park as where they should be. Some of these posts are crap, a lot of you need to realize that weapons and guns aren't enough. I've seen so many sad cases of people say stuff like "When the crap hits the fan I'm gonna have two machetes on my waist and a .50 cal with two smg's" and crap like that. You have to realize anything larger than even a .22 is going a little far. A slingshot('infinite' ammo) and a pellet gun(rifle) is all you need as far as "weapons". 'Cause lets be serious, let's pretend you bring a large rifle with you... what's it good for? If you're think large game, the fact is you can sit in the woods for a whole day and not see a single deer, moose or anything else. Now let's just pretend you do get one... you're gonna have the equiptment to/ be able to/ have time to gut and prepare it? Didn't think so, what's the answer than? Small game... in the wilderness you are infinitely more likely to run into small mammals(squirrels and the like) as well as BIRDS! There are so many upsides, very small, LIMITLESSLY ABUNDANT, and best of all easy to prepare, you can even cook them whole. They're overall convenient, and in thousands of cases, lifesavers. Other upsides to pellet gun/ slingshots are small size/ weight, very quiet if not silent... and the slingshot has limiteless ammunition, just needs a new strap every year or so, and those are small to pack and easy to repair. So when it comes to it, put away your large callibres and swords, be freaking realistic.

Anways there's my rant, it's just gonna be so sad when people start 'surviving' and a month in there's gonna be a buncha dead teens with guns and machetes by there side. People need to focus on usefull and 'do-able' skills and equiptment.

p.s. this isn't directed to any specific member, just the masses that are confused

p.p.s. looking back on it, it's ok to have medium to large calibre rifles if you'r an experienced hunter and have an understanding of what do to/ how to do it... but when people think a .30-06 and a machete will get 'em through a situation they're horribly mistaken.

reply to post by ganphra13

i agree ,it frustrates me too,but as i have learnt over the years ,you can only help some of the people some of the time ,but perhaps one of the biggest issues that society will be challenged ,humans have a problem of being morally and ethicaly distorted whenever ,shtf,i`ve seen it firsthand!!!

You can't just depend on subsistence surviving. You have to be able to trade away surplus items as well -- when you run out of supplies, to lighten your load, as well as to foster good relations while you're travelling. Big game is much more valuable than common rodents. They are more nutritious because of their varied diet, and they are stronger, which makes you stronger when you eat it.

The downsides are the costs of obtaining it, as well as having to store and carry it. Smaller animals also have more valuable hides, for some reason. If you can care for a mule or a horse, then all the better.

I think you mistake a lot of those that arent truly prepared with a lot of us that are. sure ar15s and all have their place in a survival scenario but 99% of the equipment most of us have ISNT a weapon. Its gear and items for survival dependent on the situation. Weapons are just another piece of gear. those that get it already know, those that dont might not have the chance to learn till its too late when they really need it

I'll give you an 'A' for effort but a 'C-' on delivery.

My 'pack' is a fishing vest with the pockets filled with the following:

1 spool of Spiderwire fishing line
1 penknife
1 Craftman Pro multi-tool
1 multi-sized pocket wrench (looks like a flat bar with a scalloped grove)
2 boxes of .22 LR (better guns will be easy to scavenge)
5 BIC lighters
1 small plastic magnifying glass
1 small file
1 set of guitar strings (for snare wire)
1 aluminum mess kit
1 "hobo" knife
My "survival journal" (filled with various notes over the years)

Near it is a small hatchet,a US surplus canteen bottle on a belt, a large bayonet, a good hunting knife and the old .22 lever action rifle.

No, it doesn't have everything in the world. It is light when worn and does not raise much suspicion as an ALICE pack would. And if worst came to worst I can get by with just the items in my pants pockets that I have everyday which is a small pocket knife and my wits.

A wrist rocket slingshot is nice. But then again, so is a traditional sling if you know how to make one and use it. Best weapons after a total breakdown of civilization are ones that you can ditch and replace later if you have to do so.

But in preparing to survive the first thing you have to do is assess the situation. A gun or a slingshot means little if you have to evacuate out the path of a hurricane or other natural disaster when the likelihood of returning to a normalcy is expected.

In the event of an area being cordoned off and placed under a martial law type lockdown, a pack or visible weapon of any sort is a neon sign. It says rather boldly that you are trying to escape and that you may be a problem that needs eliminated immediately. A slightly overweight looking guy with a jacket on looks fairly innocent unless it is hot outside. And if it is warm, a fishing vest and fishing pole does not look too out of place.

Although I admit that the 5.11 Tactical Vests are tempting.

The single most important thing is you have to KNOW what you are doing in a survival situation. Reading a book or magazine (or even many of them) just isn't going to cut it. No one learns how to do anything that way, you have to go out and DO IT. Think about it, did we learn how to drive by reading a book? Did we learn how to play sports, fix an appliance, or do our jobs by reading? No, it takes practice and trial and error. No one is going to survive a truly bad situation without having the skills needed.

Does this mean you should run out and try to live a week in the out beyond with nothing but a t shirt and your teeth? No, but feel free to take a week a couple times a year and go to a campground. Live in a tent and use a camp stove. Don't forget the cooler! But while you are there, learn how to start a fire in the rain. Learn how to stay warm when it's freezing, and how to stay cool when it's 110. Learn how to fish, and also what to do with it after you've caught it. Cook a meal or two on the fire. Make a temporary shelter or two, and check them after a wind hits them.

All these skills have to be learned, not just seen. It takes years to do it right, but the people who do are the ones who will survive. If you don't, you will be dead in a real SHTF situation unless someone takes pity on you. But by all means, grab that nice ar-15 or ak-47 as you head for the woods! I'll be right pleased to pick it up from next to your cold starved and frozen body in a week or two!

Regardless of what you may or may not like about the organization's policies, this is exactly why I have all my sons go through the Boy Scouts and my girls in Girl Scouts. One weekend of every month they are out there, rain or shine, cold or hot, learning how to do all these things. They will 'be prepared' even if something happens to me.

Anyway, just MY 2 cents....

Montana

It seems most of you are thinking that I'm targeting everyone here, but I'm not. I understand very well that many, if not most, of you on this board are very intelligent and capable of survival... I was just targeting the people who's bark is bigger than it's bite. Sorry if I didn't make that clear

"""You can't just depend on subsistence surviving. You have to be able to trade away surplus items as well -- when you run out of supplies, to lighten your load, as well as to foster good relations while you're travelling. Big game is much more valuable than common rodents. They are more nutritious because of their varied diet, and they are stronger, which makes you stronger when you eat it.

The downsides are the costs of obtaining it, as well as having to store and carry it. Smaller animals also have more valuable hides, for some reason. If you can care for a mule or a horse, then all the better. """

To you sir, I'm not sure if you're serious or not, it is very unlikely that when crap goes down the first thing people are going to be doing is going " hey I have a rifle, and needs pelts!1 who's got some?!!!?" first on your list of things to do is to get a routine down and survive, once you are comfortabley surviving and maybe have a small community or something you can thinks about trading things. And also, what the whole "big game is more valuable" deal? Value is useless when you're trying to survive. Also you say big game have more strength for you or something? Well the risk your making taking a large calibre rifle and waiting out for a deer to stroll by is very large, and once again if you're lucky and get one there are still the other issues I stated. The fact is, in 2 or 3 hours you could have a dozen different birds to eat. There are just so many downsides to trying to catch large game, then preparing it and making it last.. the odds of gettings enough large game to survive for long times is very low. With small game you can kill it cook it and be on your way very soon, and that's a lifesaver when your going point a to b....but, whatever floats your boat right?

This is honestly one of my biggest fears.

I have a lot of shooting experience with various weapons but I have never hunted and I am not sure I could botch my way through field dressing a squirrel, much less a deer or whatever.

However, for self-defense (not against the Army or the PoPo - because I would lose) and keeping my family safe from intruders I will rely on a bigger weapon than a .22. (have a couple of those and a brick of Remington "Lightning" somewhere...)

All in all... I hope it never comes to that but sometimes it looks pretty dark out there.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Big game is much more valuable than common rodents. They are more nutritious because of their varied diet, and they are stronger, which makes you stronger when you eat it.

Survival is all about using that wonderful thing on top of your neck. Your head.
Experience can be gained on the fly. how else would anything have ever have been invented.
Self pity is the scourge of survival.
Use your wit, your knowledge and be creative.

I think a lot of people can take examples of how people managed to survive in the days when there were no rifles, no bullets, no engines, no convienience.

Surviving a SHTF situation means the chances of replenishing all these modern day convieniences are going to be next to nill.

Therefore, its best to plan for the long term. Skills will be far more valuable to trade than guns or bullets. Skills will last a lifetime, and can be handed down without worry of mechanical failure or runniing out of ammo.

Skills can be used to teach others who do not know how to live off the land, things like fishing, hunting, making clothing, shelter, finding and cleaning drinking water, growing crops, weaving, making tools from natural resources.

Without these basic skills, survival will be quite difficult in the long run.



Cheers!!!!

While I agree with the OP about the prioritys of some with a survival situation,there is one thing I think he is forgetting..The defensive part of survival..
Stashing away the items you need to survive and while agreeing that a hunting rifle of medium caliber would be a nesesity to some,including myself..But what happens when and if a group of thugs come with bad intentions for you and your family?

I certainly wont be slinging pebbles at them as there trying to steal what In this world I have left to own and protect..meaning my family and valubles..And that also includes what is needed to live another day..

A good offense is a great defense..
In a SHTF scenario we cant let people think its ''switch to video game mode'' Were swashbuckling and big buns blazing will certainly get you DEAD

your better off trying to go unrecognized as a threat,or show any tipe of intimidation to others..You will be targeted as a threat and your big guns will be taken..

Look at it this way,if in the old west you walked down the center of town with guns hangin off your side and a shot gun in hand,the local bad A$$ took you out before you were a threat to them and there intimidation game..get what I'm saying?

We have all heard this ''Walk softly and carry a big stick..Survive by these words..


[edit on 5-3-2009 by Redpillblues]

Some good ideas in here, and I'll have to agree that small game is a better source of protien. I'm pretty sure if SHTF comes and I am somehow still alive I will have to learn to eat some pretty crazy things, like:

BUGS!!

great source of protien, and abundant (at least where I live).

Guns I think would only be useful in the long run if you have easy access to bullets. Chances are, you won't, unless you can make your ammo. Going into a deserted house is inviting trouble. Going around populated areas would also be dangerous.

A good hunting knife, and as retic said, your wits are all you truly need. Tie your knife to a long stick to increase your range to avoid injuries when hunting more dangerous game (snakes, etc.).

I'm a former Scout, and I learned a lot there. There are many good survival books out there, the Scout Handbook is one of the best.

I understand if this is ethically dubious but it seems like the OP and most others are ignoring one benefit of being well armed and that is being able to take other peoples' stuff. In a survival scenario you can save all the food you want or you can just go around and take it from well stocked pacifists.

I personally don't have any weapons, but in an end of the world scenario i plan on breaking off a table leg and resorting to cannibalism as a first option. People are one food source that will be in abundant supply.

For those disgusted by the thought of cannibalism you could still steal food or shelter from others if you have some big guns and know how to use them.

Also bullets may run out eventually, but at least you'd have them for the first few weeks of societal breakdown. The chaotic first few weeks are probably going to be one of the biggest determinants of who will ultimately survive for an extended period.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by CallMeMaury]

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
...in an end of the world scenario i plan on breaking off a table leg and resorting to cannibalism as a first option. People are one food source that will be in abundant supply.

I'm right behind you on that one...brandishing a fillet knife and seasoning

I'd have to grab a baseball bat. I'll need the table leg for my sit down meal afterwards.

Just because TSHTF doesn't mean you don't have to be civilised.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Very nice. Somehow, the fishing vest thing never occured to me...

Small backpack, yeah, fannypack, yeah, fishing vest no. Well done.

Originally posted by Nirgal
Just because TSHTF doesn't mean you don't have to be civilised.

As if spoken by the great Dr Lecter himself..

Just because one resorts to cannibalism, it is no excuse for lack of decorum at the dining table

[edit on 6-3-2009 by citizen smith]

On quite a few levels, I agree. On many I don't. I may not have grasped what level of "surviving" you have in mind.
I always like to add, "To each his own."

In my particular situation, bugging out is the absolute last resort, by the way.
However.....
Bring a slingshot to a gunfight and your dead.
.22 vs. .308 dear rifle, all things being equal, your way outgunned.

I agree that many ATS'ers go way overboard regarding their "arsenals", "And I have a thread questioning this", but my bigger question, not specifically to you, but anyone, is,

"Why so fast to bug out?"

Since the topic of "bugging out" always goes hand in hand with SITX scenarios, they are linked by cause and effect. If "A" happens, I will do "B".

If the whole idea is to bug out, and live off the land, like some early mountain man, what's stopping you from doing it now?
Why wait?

In my SITX scenario, my personal choice is to say "Eff off, Mofo!"
My house, my family, my country.

My first choice is not to drag my family into some mosquito infested wilderness, to snare and trap (and slingshot) animals so that my family may eat.

There will be blood long before I leave my home, family in tow, because some f^(($RS from some rat infested ghetto decide that they prefer my home to theirs.

And, for what it's worth, I have broken down game ranging from moose to frog, caught, cleaned and eaten every imaginable fresh water fish, wily, fork spined northerns included, and my guns are only a smaal portion of the tools and skills I have come sought in order to ensure that I and my family will be safe and secure, regardless of the situation.

I guess I have a bit more to add, so...

Do you hunt? Ever hunted rabbits? Squirrels? Grouse, pheasant? What about turkeys and geese?

For every small game animal I just listed, shotguns are the preferred weapon.
I am in no way insinuating that a .22 could not be used, I'm just stating that millions of avid hunters hit the woods each year, and few are armed with a .22. Fewer are armed with a slingshot.

I'm pretty sure it's not even legal to hunt with slingshots.

Again, could a slingshot be used when there is no other choice? Yes.
But there are much better ways, read, shotgun.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Oaktree]

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Oaktree]