A Conspiracy Against ATS?

reply to post by Cuhail


Ok, go back and read it again.

It screams something alright, but I fear you might of missed the point.

And my "Super Hero Member Status Mach III Turbo 6 Million Points" was put in place a good while ago, and not just for your post.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Well thank you nef for providing a peak behind the curtain as it were to confirm what quite a few knew as happening concurrent to "the topic" of the day. More importantly it allows others that saw it as an "Us vs. Them" was not the case for all the mods.

You have to remember that all of us MOD were, are, and continue to be members first and foremost. Its never US versus Them and thats why almost every action from a manners warn to a post ban has a discussion. As nef noted they can be quite long and detailed. We build concensus before taking action.

The staff is picked from the membership and the beliefs, feeling, points of view are ALL different. We are not cut from the same mold and it does show when we posts as members. Its to the credit of the Admin here that they have the ability to pick staff of such varied backgrounds and we all mesh quite well. One only has to look at the ultra low turnover for the staff to see whatever black majic they are using works quite well.



[edit on 2/28/09 by FredT]

One thing's for sure. Not everyone reads the T&Cs. I count myself as one. Some of the rules on manners and decorum are, to quote a well known document, self-evident.

Others are a little more grey. I was surprised initially a few days ago when reading through a thread about flying the U.S. flag upside down. I guess most saw it as that made the front page too. When I reached the end and found it had been closed only then did I realise that the organisation of political causes is also taboo. With the benefit of hindsight this probably makes a lot of sense, although it walks a fine line. I guess the difference is "let's set up a money-bomb" = bad; "did you donate to the money-bomb = okay". This one, as I see it, is also fraught with hazards. I'm sure Nef, you'll recall the advert several years ago telling us that everything we did in life was "politics". So, does calling for action on starving children with diseases politics? I don't know anymore, but then again someone will find fault. Someone always does.

I guess then that's my point. There are times when I've wanted to punch the monitor. That's when I usually walk away from the thread altogether and retreat to my "regular", it's much more subdued, restrained and polite there but having said that...

There are waves and you can predict certain things. I think I know where the next one is heading. The state of world finances are driving people to look for answers and alternatives. A lot are heading our way. Some are genuine lurkers, finally summoning the courage to come forward and ask the questions they were initially afraid to ask. Yes, there are others, trolls if you will; and some that see an opportunity to try and goad others into saying something that could be regarded as bordering on terrorism.

As long as people congregate there will always be those trying to control others. Machiavelli has a lot to answer for, even though I suspect he was just writing down observations. It's been going on for millennia. It won't stop because a few mods say so, BUT it will stop dialogue if we're not careful.

So, think before you speak. If you think you might lose it, walk away and most importantly,

never give intel to the enemy.

Rant over, back to my hole...

The question you have to ask is why would an ex NASA / GOVERNMENT employee be trolling through ATS

reply to post by InterWeb


I did, indeed, go back and re-read your post. I also edited my last post to reflect the feeling that I did misunderstand it. I also mentioned something about an apology if I did misunderstand it.

My point is that there are more posters posting to just be involved in a thread, than to actually advance it. To make it better. To add possibly critical or even substantial information to support or argue the topic is the main goal of posting in ATS, right? So, why post otherwise?

To look at the substance of the post is to find the intent behind it. Whether that intent is condusive to the goal of this website, or, the downfall of it, can be found in the post itself. When a poster with less-than-honorable intensions posts in an undeniably negative fashon, it's recognizable and should be dealt with accordingly. Then, those who post with positive intensions have nothing to worry about when they post.

Dig where I'm coming from?
That is the point of this thread, right?

Again, sorry if I misunderstood YOUR post, InterWeb.

Cuhail

Very interesting stuff Nef. I've never considered any of the stuff you said, but it's food for thought, that's for sure.

Recently I had a post of mine pulled and I objected to it (privately). Now I feel bad about that. I'm not part of this conspiracy, I promise.

You bunch of fascist pigs!!!!!!


Only joking, why don't you round up (at the end of each month) all the trouble makers and parade them around ats then we the public can vote which one gets the boot. It'll be like the pop Idol ATS edition, Springer can be Simon, SO can be Paula Abdul and you can be Randy.... Oh the excitement of it all.

Not that I care about any of this but your post was a good read.

reply to post by NoArmsJames


james!

Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying that everyone who breaks the T&C is in it for the reasons I outlined. Sometimes folks forget the T&C, and sometimes folks see the red mist. Thats understandable.

What I am saying is that there is an undercurrent of folks who know exactly what they are doing, and are framing it by protesting their supposed innocence at the sake of ATS, for the sole purpose of dragging ATS down to their level.

Originally posted by NoArmsJames
Recently I had a post of mine pulled and I objected to it (privately). Now I feel bad about that. I'm not part of this conspiracy, I promise.

There is not a single mod on staff will not take an objective look at it again. We are human too despite rumors that we are simply part of and constructs of the server's AI we can and do make mistakes. While that is no excuse to be rude and innapropriate in your communication (Believe me, ive called everything in the book in u2u's no matter what the issue.) , no staff member is above asking for others to take a second look at the issue

However In fact the SOP as noted above is to have a discussion the issue before taking action so that more than one mod has taken a look at it already.

back on topic:



The patterns are there and its always interesting to see who comes out fo the woodwork.

Its interesting and begs the question what exactly are these groups afraid of?

I have a simple answer. Because of the environment in which we post, the typical tactics of disruption become ineffective. You cannot use bombast and simple angry rhetoric to bury an solid ATS member. No matter what your take on the issue at hand, a solid ATS member will stand thier grown confident in the fact that the way this site is set up will simply not allow this particulary nasty type of troll much longevity.

The ad hom attacks, the roving forum gangs and the like are simply not allowed to ply thier trade here. Rather than debate the merits of thier position its far less easy for a simply mind to resort to the tried and true scorched earth tactic.



[edit on 2/28/09 by FredT]

Originally posted by simonecharisse
THERE IS NOT ONE THREAD ON THIS ENTIRE SITE THAT IS POSITIVE TOWARD PRESIDENT OBAMA.
And another thing. To those who have an I.Q. over 80, it is a well known fact in the US, that the demonization of the poor and disabled, is a right wing tactic created by the right, under the Reagan administration. I can't keep up with the new threads that keep popping up, using that hatred propaganda tactic.



[edit on 28-2-2009 by simonecharisse]

I take exception with that statement. It is a well know fact that if you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. If you teach man to fish he will eat for life.

I think there is a big difference between demonetization and calling lazy people lazy. It is a well known tactic from people on the left saying that if you call people out for expecting a fee life you are evil, racist and mean.

Obama purpose is to exemplify the ideals of wealth redistribution. If you oppose that you are as you say evil, mean and greedy.

Back on topic I think the real conspiracy is the many stars and flags this topic got... Just kidding...

reply to post by Zepherian


I agree with everything Zepharian said.

Off course people get upset when they are not allowed to speak about certain topics on a conspiracy site.

These are real issues, and it's censorship no matter how you look at it.

Before I became a mod, as a member, I noticed that ATS was being visited by a "cluster" of bigots. These people manifested themselves in a number of ways, some were subtle, some more direct. Their MO was to appear "reasonable" whilst they lined up their agenda, and then they banded in to promote it - the eventual subject of choice for them at that time was holocaust denial. There were two or three of them tag-teaming each other in threads, all with the same or very similar message. I could, and did, make predictions of who would post in certain threads at certain times.

So these "bigots" were "reasonable" until they touched a certain subject, you, and ATS apparently find unreasonable.

I hope the irony is not lost here.



[edit on 28/2/09 by enigmania]

Great post Nef. Definitely worth an S & F. This is something I had been wondering the past few days..t.what is going on? My first guess would be a competitive site/organization. With 6 years experience in the Public Relations/Campaign/Advertising field, I can attest to the fact that organizations will, and currently do, all they can to spread negative propaganda about a competitor. I'm sure you all know this. I wouldn't go as far out there to say "TEH [Insert ABC Agency] IS TRYNA TAK OVER TEH SYTE!" because if they really wanted to, wouldn't they have done so already? Or would that be too easy? Would it be better to let it fail on it's on? Not that I think ATS will fail due to a few sour apples.

Being a professional copywriter for an ad agency in the US, and working with writing styles ever since I was little, one thing I can point out (and I'm sure you are well aware of this) is to compare the writing styles of two posters, and see how they match up. I don't mean to call anyone out in this post, but just to make an example I will (I haven't seen this guy post in almost a year, so I assume he's either wasting other people's time, or has been admitted to an insane asylum. )I'm sure you remember Dan Tanna's tall tale of how he beat up a fish alien, correct? I actually just brought this up in another thread. In any case, you no doubt read that post. At one point he brought his "wife" into the thread to type out a witness account. One thing I noticed about his first post was that after a sentence, he strangely spaced out a "!" from his last word. I.E. "Omg, I just got attacked by a fish alien !" When comparing his typestyle to his wife's type style I noticed she also too used this trend. It was pretty easy to debunk after that and raise the flag that holds the two glorious letters of 'B' and 'S' !

If this is an organized "attack" on ATS's nature, credibility and stature among the alternative topics websites, I'd assume it was done by a competitor. Albeit, poorly executed and shut down by the moderating staff here, and that's very commendable. After reading through the drugs thread by SO, it was interesting to see accounts from 2004, 2006 reactivated suddenly. Makes me wonder how long they have been attempting to ruin something that I love participating in, and in the end it makes me kind of angry.

Originally posted by NoArmsJames
Now I feel bad about that.

I'd like to address this as well, since I was involved. Don't feel badly about asking a question or for some clarification. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it's not like you end up on some "naughty" list for asking a question. We'd 100% prefer you take issues like that up with staff the way you did rather than create some additional public drama.

Any bad feelings around that minor episode are misplaced.

Originally posted by FredT

The ad hom attacks, the roving forum gangs and the like are simply not allowed to ply thier trade here. Rather than debate the merits of thier position its far less easy for a simply mind to resort to the tried and true scorched earth tactic.

[edit on 2/28/09 by FredT]

My sentiments exactly, Fred, but, I learned this the same place you did, so, I'm not suprised you hold the same view.

No passing it by anymore. No thinking "It's not that bad, why Alert! on it?"

Nip it all in the bud and those who are really interested in continuing what we do will toe the T&C line or miss out.

C

Originally posted by enigmania
These are real issues, and it's censorship no matter how you look at it.

When someone provides a place for people to go, and sets up the groudrules for those peoples participation in that place, and certain elements who visit that place decide to deliberately take the hospitality offered to them, and ram in it the providers face, and then have the gall to try and blame the provider for their own actions - how is that censorship?

Please enlighten me. I'm really interested to know that.



[edit on 28/2/09 by neformore]

Well I think sadly your probably spot on Nef,

I think it is inevitable that a site dealing with conspiracy theories would be targetted like this.. This one especially, as the amount of the amount of deep critical thinkers around makes it rather dangerous..

With the amount of threads started and posts made it's almost a certainty that someone wil hit the target, even if it's accidental..

So when a thread or post comes up thats acually the truth what better tool to use to hide it than misdirection, whilst we're all shouting about our rights, your rights and the owners rights, that little gem that showed us the truth slips away into the void never to be heard of again.

So the next time this happens don't jump into the fray, start looking elsewhere, see what they want hidden.......

Topical Focus is not Censorship

Every Website you visit has a topical focus...stuff that is discussed there and stuff that is not discussed there. Defining which topics are discussed here and which are not is no different than a website on pussys saying that no dogs will be discussed or only baby-cats will be discussed.

I'm guessing that felt good. Sounds like it's been building for a long time. The two subjects you traditionally don't talk about because people have strong feelings are politics and religion, right? Well, guess what we write about here? Your going to get strong opinions and some people, perhaps even collaborating, to promote agendas. Some subjects are fed to the "audience" to judge response but I can bet that 100% are run through the NSA computers every day looking for patterns of their own. And, likewise, they and others will be feeding the mill. The only justifiable censorship I can believe in is servility and common law decency. There is no reason for personal attacks and insults. Such actions are always a bullying tactic. There is no reason to discuss harming others, their property or misleading them. Those are basic rights of law. Other than that?

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by NoArmsJames
Recently I had a post of mine pulled and I objected to it (privately). Now I feel bad about that. I'm not part of this conspiracy, I promise.

There is not a single mod on staff will not take an objective look at it again. We are human too despite rumors that we are simply part of and constructs of the server's AI we can and do make mistakes. While that is no excuse to be rude and innapropriate in your communication (Believe me, ive called everything in the book in u2u's no matter what the issue.) , no staff member is above asking for others to take a second look at the issue

However In fact the SOP as noted above is to have a discussion the issue before taking action so that more than one mod has taken a look at it already.

back on topic:

 

The patterns are there and its always interesting to see who comes out fo the woodwork.

Its interesting and begs the question what exactly are these groups afraid of?

I have a simple answer. Because of the environment in which we post, the typical tactics of disruption become ineffective. You cannot use bombast and simple angry rhetoric to bury an solid ATS member. No matter what your take on the issue at hand, a solid ATS member will stand their grown confident in the fact that the way this site is set up will simply not allow this particulary nasty type of troll much longevity.

The ad hom attacks, the roving forum gangs and the like are simply not allowed to ply thier trade here. Rather than debate the merits of their position its far less easy for a simply mind to resort to the tried and true scorched earth tactic.



[edit on 2/28/09 by FredT]

WOW!! Thank you FredT for the vote of confidence to ATS members!! just Wow! Almost brought a tear to my eye!! LOL.. I wish I could give you a a million stars for this post!! I'm going to add it to my profile!!!


And you are definitely correct in this statement below concerning my stance:

I have a simple answer.

Because of the environment in which we post, the typical tactics of disruption become ineffective. You cannot use bomblast and simple angry rhetoric to bury an solid ATS member. No matter what your take on the issue at hand, a solid ATS member will stand their grown confident in the fact that the way this site is set up will simply not allow this particulary nasty type of troll much longevity.

The ad home attacks, the roving forum gangs and the like are simply not allowed to ply their trade here. Rather than debate the merits of their position its far less easy for a simply mind to resort to the tried and true scorched earth tactic.

reply to post by neformore


It's not that hard off a concept. For instance I feel that my experiences with certain substances have been beneficial to my spiritual growth, yet I'm not allowed to speak about it.

I don't care if certain people break the rules. It's still censorship, whatever the reason is.

Want me to enlighten you with the dictionairy definition of censorship?