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A Conspiracy Against ATS?

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posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by neformore
 


I don't care if certain people break the rules. It's still censorship, whatever the reason is.


Here we go with claims of censorship.
Look, nobody has true freedom of speech to say anything you want at anytime so why do you expect to have that here?
You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre and claim freedom of speech as a defense, unless of course it's really on fire.
You can't incite a riot.
ETC...

So there are restrictions to freedom of speech everywhere.

So why are you coming down so hard on ATS ??




posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Komodo
ok, I wasn't going to add this but, at the request of a mod, I shall. *peeks . out of shell*

There might be another element which we haven't talked about before and it might answer a couple of questions we have as to why are they doing this and what would be the interest.

ATS might be being tested by a element of people that need information about what ppl think, values and such. Ha! Just look at the our name and should bring all the bees of the world to gather the nectar within.
and why wouldn't we bring in a rainbow of ppl/grps with a name like this. Shoot, it's a military term
and what would be the one bee that wants that nectar (info) within?

What better way for data collection than to post subjects that they need info on and post the same as what the mods have seen. Simple tactic is: get the info, then drop out of site for awhile or 'sleep' if you will, which in the military world means=go silent till needed. *do I need a wiki ref for this? LOL .. you get the idea*

IMO, some of it is a military/FBI/CIA Psychological operation to gather data. Seriously.

I certainly can't prove this but, after reading your data presented/described defiantly has the 'earmarks' of such. How do I know this? You can call it a 3rd eye, but call it my 'knower'.


It's just another point to think about. If they want data/info on what members think, what they value and what their stance is on Gov issues/president, they just have to login, post up a thread on data collection needed for the day, throw in a few comments to get the flames roll'n and wala! Then it's just a matter of copy and paste comments.

As for the hard core breaching of the T&C, it might be gov, but, highly doubtful, seems more like disgruntled groups of ppl or single elements (Crackers, pissed off members, ect)

the question(s) to ask is:

*If it is an alpha agency, is the data collection harmful? hmmm...not in that it brings down the site, but, it certainly brings out our core values.


*why would they be doing this? completely unknown for now, and might never know. but, that certainly belongs to another thread


-cheers!




In my opinion implying that Federal agencies browse this message board to gather vital information is about like saying Peyton Manning browses Pro Football boards for Quarterbacking tips. 'They' may stop by the way we all might stare at a car wreck out of morbid curiosity, but I doubt for more than that.

I enjoy this board, have never had a problem here at all, and respect all who run/manage it.

But lets not take ourselves THAT seriously.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 





That choice is a simple one. You can either stick with the site rules, or you can go elsewhere. Thats not censorship. Thats your freedom of choice.



Definitions: 1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security 2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable".


Please, tell me again, with a straight face, what censorship is.

The fact that I can choose to leave doesn't take a thing away from this being censorship.

If you don't like the way the news is being censored in America, you could always leave the country, so it's not censorship. Right?

Right.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Okay I admit I am a bad one for not reading all the rules and regulations per site but I also believe in free speech and as long as I am not being hateful ( and there really is a difference between an un popular opinion and hateful) there should be no problem. For example I believe that PC policies are a form of mind control imposed on the vast majority by different minorities to the extent of suppression of individuals rights to express themselves and even to teach their children what they(the parents) want them to know. For example I got kicked off a board this time last year for challenging moderators that discussions of sexual orientation has no place on a board open to minors. Honestly I don'tgive a rat's rear ed what you do in the privacy of your bedroom or with whom but I do object to pc people telling me that I am a bigot because I don't want my child to know what goes on between consenting adults especialy if that child is 8-10 years old. I think it is inappropriate. However I do not believe anyone should be allowed to judge another on race colour creed or orientation and it is hard not to I admit that because so many people are such sheep they don't want education they want to be trash and that kind of mentality goes beyond color or race or anything else. But to point out any minority group is being a bigot but it's perfectly fine to say anti- middle class white stereotypes trash.

Perhaps I am a little off topic I guess I would like to know the bottom line how pc are the mods here? We can sound off about politics but can't rally together over a common protest, even if it is peaceful. We can discuss ufo's and what the NWO has in store for us but we can't touch sexual orientation and how pc suppresses our every movement and thought it seems. I don't speak legalese and I am a terrible one for wanting to know not just what the rules are but why do you have them? Law and order I understand but as I said as long as I am not saying anything hurtful as long as people who are rallying for the upside down flag are doing a peaceful demonstration what really is the harm? What do you deem is hurtful?

People who are out to do really hateful stuff I understand shutting them down but what abot those who just want to be heard peacefully? What do you deem as hateful?


[edit on 28-2-2009 by lola322]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
At times, it feels like a hostile takeover but it doesn't seem to be limited to just the three area's you've covered.


You're spot on that its not limited to those three, I used them for illustration purposes.

Its happened all across the board, on virtually every major forum. Sometimes more than once. The issues are different, but the outcome of them is always the same.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


It's not claims of censorship, it is censorship, by definition, it's funny that you guys are even denying that.




You can't incite a riot.


And that's what talking about these subjects does, inciting a riot?




So why are you coming down so hard on ATS ??


Because I hate any form of suppresion, especially comming from ATS.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


I have to say though, that you, nef, and fredt are making it really hard to prove my conspiracy that all of ATS is against me, and me alone.


I've been thinking more about the original post and who would do this and why, and here's my guesses.

I don't think that this is anything government/big business/"TPTB" related. I know from talking to webmasters of other sites that if something was being said or done here that someone high-up really didn't like, they could go as far as getting the site blocked at the backbone. It wouldn't be legal, but easily done.

I think it's more likely that this is an organized effort by one or more smaller and more poorly put together conspiracy sites. I've never come across a better conspiracy site in my 12+ years online. Most are poorly organized and written. You can bet that there are some jealous webmasters out there who think it's easier to attack you than make their own sites better.

Another possibility; albeit less-likely is that this is just a group of morons who love causing trouble. I'm not mentioning any groups by name, but think /b/.

There's my .02



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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TO THE MODS: reading the post here already, I've been reminded that, no matter how well and hard you try to help someone you can't please everyone.

Some people will only argue for the sake of arguing, period. Because they like it or they may not even know they are doing it. It's just their makeup.

They will take the stance against whatever you say just to carry a conversation. LOL...I know how silly this sounds but, I have a grandson at home that NO MATTER what I say, he's right. REGARDLESS of the facts or rules!!! LMAO !!


Ya know?
and then he says..."why don't you talk to me or give me suggestions?" WOW!!! some times, silence is golden.


As I said before, it comes down to...integrity: adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. And I shall add 1 more, respect of person's rights and views. *To act toward my neighbor as I would like them act toward me*



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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The only freaking conspiracy on here worth thinking about is the fact governments will be monitoring it to see if anything with any credibility gets leaked on one of the largest alternative forums on the planet, ive seen it many times, stuff gets put on here and one month later its in the newspaper.




Some people will only argue for the sake of arguing, period. Because they like it or they may not even know they are doing it. It's just their makeup.


Its called an opinion mate. If eveyone agreed, well, i wouldnt be writing this, lol.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by SASAlbertino]

[edit on 28-2-2009 by SASAlbertino]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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It's also refreshing how you guys keep focusing on me, speaking as if I am the one breaking rules, while I'm merely expressing my malcontent with the speaking restrictions on certain subjects.

Very refreshing to see the knee jerk, not.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by NoArmsJames
reply to post by yeahright
 


I have to say though, that you, nef, and fredt are making it really hard to prove my conspiracy that all of ATS is against me, and me alone.


I've been thinking more about the original post and who would do this and why, and here's my guesses.

I don't think that this is anything government/big business/"TPTB" related. I know from talking to webmasters of other sites that if something was being said or done here that someone high-up really didn't like, they could go as far as getting the site blocked at the backbone. It wouldn't be legal, but easily done.

I think it's more likely that this is an organized effort by one or more smaller and more poorly put together conspiracy sites. I've never come across a better conspiracy site in my 12+ years online. Most are poorly organized and written. You can bet that there are some jealous webmasters out there who think it's easier to attack you than make their own sites better.

Another possibility; albeit less-likely is that this is just a group of morons who love causing trouble. I'm not mentioning any groups by name, but think /b/.

There's my .02


Ditto on the best conspiracy website in 12 years online! and I would concur with you that this isn't government/big business/"TPTB but, I'm not going to put it past them either. IMO, everyone gets put into the fish bowl.


If you feed me data like this after being in QA for 4 years & Manufacturing Engineering for 5 yeas shoot, i'm gonna look at the whole lot~!!
Nothing is going to get excluded! LOL



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Komodo

As I said before, it comes down to...integrity: adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. And I shall add 1 more, respect of person's rights and views. *To act toward my neighbor as I would like them act toward me*



Ahhhh, komodo, you are wise.
This is practically my whole drive in life.
Veneratio Pro Aurum

When was it that "manners" became "Politically Correct"? Because once they renamed it, they made it something to rebel against.

Good post!
Starred.

Cuhail



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Cuhail
 

Well said, Cuhail. Extension of an olive branch from a sincere heart, is most likely received by a forgiving hand. As it should be.

Of course, we also have the type who are like pit-bulls that latch-on to a subject, or single word within a subject, and just won't ever let go...ahem; for instance the 'censorship' dog we have running amok in this thread!



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by enigmania
 


Wrong.

If you had a right to talk about such things in the first place, and it was removed, that would be censorship.

ATS is a privately owned and run forum with rules and regulations that you agreed to when you joined ATS did not afford you the right to discuss that subject, because the rules and regulations you agreed to expressly prohibited you from doing so.

As such, you had no right to discuss the things in the first place, as the forum has the right to remove anything that breaks the sites terms and conditions.

Therefore, you are not being censored when posts that break the T&C are removed. All that is happening is that the private site rules are being enforced.

To be blunt about it with you, neither you or I have a right to post a damn thing on ATS. What we do have is the hospitality afforded to you by the site owners, who reserve the right to remove posts as they see fit.

Now you can try and argue the case with that until you are blue in the face, but frankly, you'd just be being obtuse for the sake of it.

As to;



It's also refreshing how you guys keep focusing on me, speaking as if I am the one breaking rules, while I'm merely expressing my malcontent with the speaking restrictions on certain subjects.


Maybe what I've written above makes things clearer to you? The reason you are getting more attention is because you obviously haven't understood what I've spelled out above.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Cuhail

Nef. I am in the unique position to know exactly what you are talking about. I've been in the back room with you guys and I know what you guys go through to keep ATS running smooth and I KNOW all the discussions that go on in regards to any trouble in the boards.
I agree that there are...personalities...that target the regular operation of this website and it is a conspiracy in itself. There is a conspiracy by forces to disrupt the intellegent co-operation of the ideas and theories that make this site what it is.
The question is...how to go about stifling the attempts to knock us off our game.

My personal strategy has been to always post with intellegence and class. But, that's no secret. My stance is pretty well known here by now. However, my hopes that it catches on in other's posting habits has been...disappointing. No biggie. I'll carry on just the same. However, I do see patterns in a LOT of members posts that indicate EXACTLY what you are pointing out. And yes, most of those aggravating posters are members who have been here for a relatively short time. Inside one year, usually. I tend to think it's some of the members we gained during the Elections. With the elections over, they found other subjects to focus on. Unfortunately the focus they use is in the form of tactical ridicule and feigned lack of patience.

TH


pretty good summary

ATS leaders and masters, remember, you DON'T have to extend invitation or everyone on here to participate. make it a privilege, not a right. make it like a country club, and discriminate based on who you like. Simple as that?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


I hope I'm not going OT from the actual topic but I have been feeling an increasing marginalization from the media just this past few months. I suddenly remembered it when I read the topic.

An example of this would be the newer Mythbusters episodes. They have been using the word "Conspiracy Theorist" lately as a mocking word. My memory isn't what it used to be but I don't recall hearing this word on that show.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
reply to post by Cuhail
 



Of course, we also have the type who are like pit-bulls that latch-on to a subject, or single word within a subject, and just won't ever let go...ahem; for instance the 'censorship' dog we have running amok in this thread!




And THOSE are the crux of this thread, my friend! I think Nef figured this would draw the moths to the flame.

So to speak and IMHO, of course.


Cuhail



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Cuhail
 





You did, it does. You just have a different interpretation than that that was intended when coined.


So when it was coined, it didn't mean that you should consider each and every topic, despite it's political or cultural controversy?

We must be living in different dimensions.




The beacon of Truth would point directly at those who agreed to post within the rules and then did the opposite.


Were it not that the rules forbid a part of the truth being spoken.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by enigmania
It's not claims of censorship, it is censorship, by definition, it's funny that you guys are even denying that.


My link was "spin"? I don't see how. It shows that when a member registers they AGREE to the T&C. That includes the topic you are referring to. So let me get this right. You agreed not to post that topic but now you want to break YOUR word? Explain how that is ATS fault. Maybe your shouldn't make agreements that you do not wish to keep. Try that with a creditor and see what happens.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Of course, we also have the type who are like pit-bulls that latch-on to a subject, or single word within a subject, and just won't ever let go...ahem; for instance the 'censorship' dog we have running amok in this thread!


You laugh it up now. Rather be a dog as a sheep.



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