Are Religious Believers Weak?

It would be so much easier to believe in a god. Regardless of whether it were a christian god, Islamic god, Jewish god etc. To look at the world through religious rose tinted glasses would make life so much more easy and acceptable. Now i want to state that as an atheist i am perfectly happy myself, but i can see why so many others would need faith to accept the world. Without it they cannot accept the horrors of existence. Let's take some situations and see what a person of faith would do and an atheist without any belief in god would think.

You visit a country where people are starving and suffering everyday. They are in pain, their children are dying and generally life is damn awful.

Now a religious person can look at this and console themselves with the thought that god has a plan. They can think that when these poor people die that they will be rewarded as long as they accept the god that the viewer believes in.

An atheist cannot do this. An atheist must accept that man has done all of this, that these people will not get rewarded in an afterlife, that these people will suffer and without help they will never get out of it.

I think in this situation an atheist has more incentive to help these people. An atheist is more burdened with their suffering because we know that death will not make it better for them.

A child is dying of cancer.

Again a believer can accept this more easily. In fact studies suggest that faith helps people get through such things as losing a family member because they can rely on their belief that their loved ones are in a better place.

Again an atheist has to accept the cold hard reality. The suffering child isn't going to go any further, they are going to either suffer and live or suffer and die and that will be the end. What a waste this is and again i hope this inspires some atheists to do something about it.

It would be easier to believe in god, it would make life so much more simple, more tolerable. As an atheist however we are inspired to make the life we have now a better one. So i think that atheists are braver than the religious and this explains a lot. Religion is a crutch and without it many people would be unable to accept the realities of the world. I would argue that it is a throwback to our first sentient thoughts, whenever they occurred and that atheism is a development in mental strength.

i don't think its that they are weak. it is just their way of answering questions and coping with death and other events.

i am an atheist and death is a pretty bad ordeal for me because im quite aware of what happens after death. a religious person on the other hand doesnt know what happens after death therefore they deal with it by telling themselves that they will be reunited.

when a young child dies an atheist cries. a religious person will say that the child fulfilled its mission,

religious believers are weak or rather easily led. When people takl about sheeple it is religious believers that by far and away fall into this category.

Though I do think that some converts are less easily led since they were able to pull themselves away from their born into religion and find one that made more sense for them personally and spiritually.


It takes a cerain individual to pull themselves away from something to have that ability to critically think and determine the truth for themselves.

Originally posted by N. Tesla
i don't think its that they are weak. it is just their way of answering questions and coping with death and other events.

i am an atheist and death is a pretty bad ordeal for me because im quite aware of what happens after death. a religious person on the other hand doesnt know what happens after death therefore they deal with it by telling themselves that they will be reunited.

when a young child dies an atheist cries. a religious person will say that the child fulfilled its mission,

Correction. You have faith that you know what happens after death. If you have proof please share it! Even if you have already been dead and your are now alive you have faith that what you remembered happened. Does anyone here feel that if we addressed which levels of faith can be labelled fact we could prevent the circular arguments?

reply to post by heyo


i KNOW what happens after death. i am a very stubborn atheist and i KNOW nothing happens after you die. try to convince a christian theres no heaven.

reply to post by N. Tesla


Lol are you trying to illustrate the absurdity of some christian arguments by using them yourself? If not, then i'd have to say that you can't prove you know something by saying you know it.

Originally posted by heyo

Correction. You have faith that you know what happens after death. If you have proof please share it! Even if you have already been dead and your are now alive you have faith that what you remembered happened. Does anyone here feel that if we addressed which levels of faith can be labelled fact we could prevent the circular arguments?

Incorrect. Those who say we don't know what happens after death are relying upon faith. Atheists know there is no soul as we cannot prove a soul, atheists know that when you die your cells shut down and the energy within you spreads out into the local environment as heat until you are cold. Bacteria and other organisms then consume your body and convert the energy contained into their own life cycles.

There is absolutely no proof of an afterlife, a soul or anything else. Proving a negative is pretty much impossible. Please disprove unicorns because that is the exact same argument. Therefore atheists do know what happens after death, nothing.

This thread isn't about that however this thread is not asking if there is an afterlife it is stating the difference between two belief systems. It is asking the question if the religious simply believe because they cannot handle the reality. It is asking whether belief is a primitive response that is hardwired into the brain because most peoples brains cannot cope without it.

reply to post by N. Tesla

How do you know that? Have you died and come back? Have you had a NDE.

Or do you just know because you *know*?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



???????WHAT!!!!!!

"WE CAN'T PROVE IT SO IT CAN'T BE TRUE.



With that line of thinking the earth became round when people proved it was round, and was flat before that revelation occured. People like you have been fooled into believing that there is nothing you can't understand, and if there is it is by definitoin not real. I would've left aetheism long before i left christianity if degrees of absurdity were the deciding factor.

Edit: Of course the absurdity of religion becomes apparent eventually, but it's a much more effective attempt at distraction than aetheism.


[edit on 22-2-2009 by heyo]

Boy, hang on to your keyboard!!!! The flames may fly on this one!!!!

You bring out an interesting point. When I was a Christian I had "faith" and it made loosing a loved one easier and even my own death almost looked forward too

Try this one on: A child dies a horrible death, cancer, sickness, murder, etc. and some moron says "God needed another angel".............. even as a Christian that angered me greatly!!!!

Are Believers weak? I would venture a guess that many are. Faith in the matters of life after death makes living life easier and even giving your life easier. It makes suffering easier. It makes being poor and down trodden easier. For there is a reward for putting up with things after you are dead, but only if you are good......

For me, I want facts not faith. Once I realized what faith asks of us, faith has become a vile word in my own vocabulary. And where there is evidence but not conclusive proof, I MAY place "hope" there.

I am not weak, but yet I do not understand how you can call other religious people weak? Atheism is also a religion, so in essence you are calling atheist weak as well.

I have some questions for you:

1) Since you are obviously atheist, what happens when you die?
2) What are you worth?
3) Who are you as a person?
4) Who owns the world?
5) Who makes the rules? The strongest? The majority? Might makes right?
6) Do you know God does not exist or do you believe it?
7) Why are you here?

Originally posted by Oolon
Boy, hang on to your keyboard!!!! The flames may fly on this one!!!!

You bring out an interesting point. When I was a Christian I had "faith" and it made loosing a loved one easier and even my own death almost looked forward too

Try this one on: A child dies a horrible death, cancer, sickness, murder, etc. and some moron says "God needed another angel"..............

even as a Christian that angered me greatly!!!!

Are Believers weak? I would venture a guess that many are. Faith in the matters of life after death makes living life easier and even giving your life easier. It makes suffering easier. It makes being poor and down trodden easier. For there is a reward for putting up with things after you are dead, but only if you are good......

For me, I want facts not faith. Once I realized what faith asks of us, faith has become a vile word in my own vocabulary. And where there is evidence but not conclusive proof, I MAY place "hope" there.

Prove to me that what you say is right. If you can't, then it is faith. Period. The commonality of religion and aetheism is that instead of changing their beliefs because of facts, they change facts because of beliefs.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Hello to you As you can see by my avatar I am a Christian. I do hope you will take time to read my post.

First, I have lost a child, at age 7, have any of you grieved for the arms of your dead son to greet you again after school. I was not a Christian when my son passed. Didn't attend a church, but I was a good moral person. When you bury your child, you bury part of your future of who you are. It is indeed a most lonesome experience I have ever traveled. But, upon this traveled path that life had handed me, I did discover God, or the correct word would be God was there all the time whispering in my ear, but I never heard his voice. In my grief He wrapped his loving arms around me and lifted me up in his love and his mercy. He comforted me and my spirit and helped me to understand that my son was not really gone from me. Yes, I was angry and asked, "Why did this happen", "Didn't he know how much it hurt me that I could not hold my son." He, told me, "Yes, he understood." "That he too cried when he lost his son." I felt such sorrow in my spirit that one day I simply fell to the floor, sobbing. It was then that the Lord's spirit came down upon me in a mighty way and the pain was gone. There was this love so deep, it was so hard to explain the emotion and the impact it had upon my spirit. That is when I became a "follower of Christ", "follower to The Way", or a Christian. That has been 35 years ago and it is still the sweetest song I know.

Now, as to your point that a Christian is weak and not strong. Let me beg to differ. In this world today it takes a lot of strength to stand up and profess that you are a Christian. You will most likely will be pursecuted for your faith by non-believers. It is happening more often and just because you have something the world does not understand. We a few in numbers these days and one needs to be strong-minded and strong-spirited.

If I may: Ephesians 3: 16-17 "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in you inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith."

Ephesians 3: 18-19 ""together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."

I profess to you, He does indeed strengthen our inner being and dwells in our hearts through faith.

And through faith we grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ. And yes, to know this love that is does surpasses all knowledge.

It does indeed take a lot of wisdom, strength, and love to be a Christian.


Peace to you,
Grandma

To begin, no, they aren't weak. I think it's really hard to accept reality, and I think sometimes a story with a lot of good morals and messages can seem like it answers everything. The thing is, religion is really obscure, and I think it's very comforting to think that someone or something is out there, looking after you. That you're more than just a bunch of cells. That what you do in life actually matters. I think that believing in religion makes a lot of sense, psychologically. And if there was only ONE religion and it was science vs. this one concept or ideology that transcends every culture, it would be different. Religion isn't clear enough, and there isn't really any "proof." You can't look under a microscope and analyze what you see and say "Oh, there's God." Instead, you may see some tissues, maybe some cells. You know, life. And then you break it down more and you see some molecules, maybe enzymes or proteins. Some DNA. Some chemicals. Some processes and reactions. But if religion answers the questions that people may not understand, like the "why" and "how," if chance isn't a good enough explanation, then it's completely understandable. Doesn't work for me, though.

1) Since you are obviously atheist, what happens when you die?
Two options- Either your brain stops working and you rot in the ground and cease to exist, or your consciousness/spirit goes elsewhere, probably into the atmosphere or something, as a form of vibrational energy. Like a wave.
2) What are you worth?
What is an elephant worth? Or a beetle? Or starfish? As much as that.
3) Who are you as a person?
That doesn't have anything to do with religion. Personality is based on DNA and life experiences. That combines to form who I am.
4) Who owns the world?
No one, of course. The world is it's own entity. You can't own a piece of land, you just live there. We just live here and use it's resources, but no one can "own" it. Didn't you ever watch Pocahontas?
5) Who makes the rules? The strongest? The majority? Might makes right?
The strongest or most intelligent. Those who are most adapted. I mean, those are the ones who survive.
6) Do you know God does not exist or do you believe it?
I believe it. Do you know God does exist, or do you believe it? If He popped up one day and everyone could point, of all religions, even polytheistic ones, and go "Oh, there he is." We wouldn't be having this problem. I have seen no evidence at all that He does. And it seems really unlikely. And if you step back and think about it, or if you were reading a story about this one entity that created everything and watches over stuff and has a plan for everyone and the world, and it caught you by surprise and the names were changed, you would probably go "Um... that's... not very realistic."
7) Why are you here?
Because I was born, because of mitosis, because organisms reproduce and that's what happens when they do. I don't have a plan, like, I don't NEED to do anything in life. I'm not supposed to do something so that I can go to Heaven or protect the souls of the innocent. I'm just alive, that's why.

Atheism isn't a religion, in this thread. Religious believers are those who believe in God, that's the typical definition. Atheism, to me, is a belief in science. Which is not religion. So the answer by definition would be that atheists are not religious.


[edit on 2/22/2009 by ravenshadow13]

I love jesus and this type of ego selfjustification is why I left christianity. None of the accepted nuances of christianity are taught by christ. Christianity currently exists solely by judging others...the joke is on all of us, will you laugh or cry at the punchline gramma? There is an inherent respect i give to you opinion because of my faith that your age is actually what you say it is. So it is with my deepest condolencses that i profess to you is that when Jon cried when he saw who the beast was it was because he saw his reflection. Thoughts?




[edit on 22-2-2009 by heyo]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

It would be so much easier to believe in a god. Regardless of whether it were a christian god, Islamic god, Jewish god etc. To look at the world through religious rose tinted glasses would make life so much more easy and acceptable. Now i want to state that as an atheist i am perfectly happy myself, but i can see why so many others would need faith to accept the world. Without it they cannot accept the horrors of existence. Let's take some situations and see what a person of faith would do and an atheist without any belief in god would think.

You are making a lot of assumptions in the above statement. I have a realistic view of the world, and I am perfectly happy myself, even though I know things are probably going to get even uglier in the future.

You visit a country where people are starving and suffering everyday. They are in pain, their children are dying and generally life is damn awful. Now a religious person can look at this and console themselves with the thought that god has a plan.

A religious person would look at this situation and think to themselves, Jesus told us to do whatever we can to help the poor and needy, and would probably more likely to help.

The atheist would probably not have the same desire to help because they don't believe in God, and haven't learned to be compassionate, after all, they don't have the example Jesus set for us.

They can think that when these poor people die that they will be rewarded as long as they accept the god that the viewer believes in.

Even though most religious people do believe that there is a reward after death (surprise, surprise, some people don't), we have a mandate given to us to help the poor and downtrodden in THIS life, which is why so many Christian charities exist.

Also, God states in the Bible that God's laws are written in each person's heart (conscience) so perhaps anyone who follows their conscience and does right is entitled to the same reward. We really don't know that for sure, but to a real follower of God, it won't matter if a person believes in God or not. We would still help them if we could.

An atheist cannot do this. An atheist must accept that man has done all of this, that these people will not get rewarded in an afterlife, that these people will suffer and without help they will never get out of it. I think in this situation an atheist has more incentive to help these people. An atheist is more burdened with their suffering because we know that death will not make it better for them.

Actually, my personal belief is that an atheist would be more likely to be able to walk away from a situation like the above, because I have found through my personal experience with atheists, they are more likely to blame the person having the trouble for causing their own problems. Like homeless people are bums, and deserve what they get because they won't work, or because they are weak, etc.

A child is dying of cancer. Again a believer can accept this more easily. In fact studies suggest that faith helps people get through such things as losing a family member because they can rely on their belief that their loved ones are in a better place. Again an atheist has to accept the cold hard reality. The suffering child isn't going to go any further, they are going to either suffer and live or suffer and die and that will be the end. What a waste this is and again i hope this inspires some atheists to do something about it.

Have you ever had a child die of cancer. I haven't, but my fiancee died from cancer after suffering for a year....operations, doctors, treatment, and finally becoming paralyzed and spending the last 3 months of his life in a wheelchair in a long term care facility.

I went there every day, from noon til after 9:00 pm every day....I had a 3 1/2 year old daughter at the time, took her there to see her daddy, had to explain why he was gone when he died. I was mad at God at the time, I don't know why it happened, I don't know what the purpose was. But the whole thing taught me something about the resiliency of the human spirit. About the sacrifices people will make for each other. I do know though, everyone dies......and I feel sorry for atheists to think they feel that way. That's a sad, hopeless way to live.

By the way, my love of God is even stronger now.

It would be easier to believe in god, it would make life so much more simple, more tolerable.

Sounds like you are saying life as an atheist is intolerable, I can understand why, you don't have any hope......

As an atheist however we are inspired to make the life we have now a better one. So i think that atheists are braver than the religious and this explains a lot. Religion is a crutch and without it many people would be unable to accept the realities of the world. I would argue that it is a throwback to our first sentient thoughts, whenever they occurred and that atheism is a development in mental strength.

People who believe in God are inspired by God the make the world a better place, many people who believe in God have actually lost their lives because of it. What do atheists have to make them braver, their hopelessness?

You are just making a lot of assumptions because you want to see it that way. Most of the religious people I know are down to earth people that go out of their way to help others and have a very realistic and positive outlook on life.

In my opinion, most atheists just want to think people that believe in God need a crutch because they're jealous of believer's faith.

They can't understand it, or maybe they really can, but they don't want to admit it because that way they can fool themselves that they don't need God.

That way they can keep doing whatever they want, whether it's good for them or not, and it's a way for them to feel good about themselves, feel superior.

That's ok.......but I'll tell you what, God the Father wants everybody to come to Him, so all you have to do, is sincerely ask Him to show you He's there, in Jesus' name ask Him to show you in a way you can understand as a human being, and He will, He says He will.

God Bless

p.s. I have nothing against atheists, I take everybody for themselves, regardless, I just wanted to show you what a generalist you were being.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by sezsue]

We all need to understand that atheism, unlike the various religions, requires only a lack of belief in a god or gods. It requires nothing more. It does not prescribe a certain worldview or individual ethic, it does not provide an explanation for the spark or the subsequent purpose of all things--it does not provide anything to those who claim its title. To suggest that it is some sort of religious belief is absurd and in denial of humanity's accepted definition of "religion", though believing so provides an easy (if untenable) argument to briefly add to the believer's arsenal.

The fact is, the only commonality among atheists is the lack of belief in a god. Some of us proclaim that indeed no god exists, that we know this. Some of us claim only to disbelieve--the "I simply don't believe in any god." variety. I would be the latter; as you've found, many other atheists on ATS identify with the former. To answer the questions put forth by TheMythLives:

1) Since you are obviously atheist, what happens when you die? I don't know. I suspect that we either perish or our consciousness travels to an unknown place. I don't feel the need to discover what happens after death.
2) What are you worth? I believe our worth as individuals is dictated by the beneficence of our actions on earth. I feel like I'm doing a decent job .
3) Who are you as a person? I'm going to defer to ravenshadow here; her description is spot-on for me. Providing any comprehensive answer for you would entail providing a greater description of myself than I wish to give on ATS.
4) Who owns the world? No one owns the world; the universe at large does not belong to anyone.
5) Who makes the rules? The strongest? The majority? Might makes right? Earthly interactions are governed by those who are able to reach the apex of human power. I do not believe it is ever the "majority", if we're speaking of societal rules and dictates of living, though this is more appropriate for a political discussion, so I'll leave it there.
6) Do you know God does not exist or do you believe it? I do not believe that any god exists.
7) Why are you here? I have been essentially "raised into" aid work (as soon as I was old enough, I was introduced to it by my parents). For me, it is the primary activity that provides a strong sense of purpose, of certainty that I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing. I am a student and aid worker at the moment, and I intend to carry on into government. My reason for living on the planet is, I feel, to participate in the cause of improving conditions here on Earth. We are all capable of identifying a purpose for being--religion is not required for that revelation.

I'd like to read your answers to your own questions, if you don't mind.

Edit for lazy punctuation.

[edit on 22/2/09 by paperplanes]

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Hello to you

As you can see by my avatar I am a Christian. I do hope you will take time to read my post.

First, I have lost a child, at age 7, have any of you grieved for the arms of your dead son to greet you again after school. I was not a Christian when my son passed. Didn't attend a church, but I was a good moral person. When you bury your child, you bury part of your future of who you are. It is indeed a most lonesome experience I have ever traveled. But, upon this traveled path that life had handed me, I did discover God, or the correct word would be God was there all the time whispering in my ear, but I never heard his voice. In my grief He wrapped his loving arms around me and lifted me up in his love and his mercy. He comforted me and my spirit and helped me to understand that my son was not really gone from me. Yes, I was angry and asked, "Why did this happen", "Didn't he know how much it hurt me that I could not hold my son." He, told me, "Yes, he understood." "That he too cried when he lost his son." I felt such sorrow in my spirit that one day I simply fell to the floor, sobbing. It was then that the Lord's spirit came down upon me in a mighty way and the pain was gone. There was this love so deep, it was so hard to explain the emotion and the impact it had upon my spirit. That is when I became a "follower of Christ", "follower to The Way", or a Christian. That has been 35 years ago and it is still the sweetest song I know.

Now, as to your point that a Christian is weak and not strong. Let me beg to differ. In this world today it takes a lot of strength to stand up and profess that you are a Christian. You will most likely will be pursecuted for your faith by non-believers. It is happening more often and just because you have something the world does not understand. We a few in numbers these days and one needs to be strong-minded and strong-spirited.

If I may: Ephesians 3: 16-17 "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in you inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith."

Ephesians 3: 18-19 ""together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."

I profess to you, He does indeed strengthen our inner being and dwells in our hearts through faith.

And through faith we grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ. And yes, to know this love that is does surpasses all knowledge.

It does indeed take a lot of wisdom, strength, and love to be a Christian.


Peace to you,
Grandma

And then you saw that God was in the rain. I think it is a rule of the universe that you cannot truthfully define one end of a spectrum without having been immersed in the other.
Your child is happier now than it could ever have been on earth. (i've lost a little sister.....her name was Faith)

To clarify that wasn't a metaphor. She was my first little sister.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by heyo]

Originally posted by sezsue
A religious person would look at this situation and think to themselves, Jesus told us to do whatever we can to help the poor and needy, and would probably more likely to help.

Really? Because i see a lot of christian conservatives in america that think only for themselves. In fact it seems to be the christian conservatives that are against socialized healthcare.

Originally posted by sezsue
The atheist would probably not have the same desire to help because they don't believe in God, and haven't learned to be compassionate, after all, they don't have the example Jesus set for us.

Right ok. Well i'm compassionate. I have spent time in soup kitchens, homeless shelters and other such locations because i wanted to help. Maybe you need to learn about compassion. It isn't because you read the bible you are compassionate, most people are compassionate because they see a fellow person in trouble and that makes them feel bad. It actually seems to be ingrained in us. That would explain why we feel the need to look after any animal that has big eyes, and a head larger than it's body. Because we are made to look after babies or anything baby like.

Originally posted by sezsue
Even though most religious people do believe that there is a reward after death (surprise, surprise, some people don't), we have a mandate given to us to help the poor and downtrodden in THIS life, which is why so many Christian charities exist.

Actually many christian charities exist to spread the word of jesus. Maybe you need to look up the history of them because they tend to only treat people if they sit through religious meetings. It's a very sad fact but that is true and if you have delusions otherwise then you don't know the history.

Originally posted by sezsue
Also, God states in the Bible that God's laws are written in each person's heart (conscience) so perhaps anyone who follows their conscience and does right is entitled to the same reward. We really don't know that for sure, but to a real follower of God, it won't matter if a person believes in God or not. We would still help them if we could.

Well i got thrown out of a soup kitchen, by christians because i was an atheist. I was not preaching atheism to the homeless, i simply mentioned it when a fellow volenteer asked me about jesus. According to your bible and jesus himself if you don't abide by him yo uwon't get into heaven.

Originally posted by sezsue
Actually, my personal belief is that an atheist would be more likely to be able to walk away from a situation like the above, because I have found through my personal experience with atheists, they are more likely to blame the person having the trouble for causing their own problems. Like homeless people are bums, and deserve what they get because they won't work, or because they are weak, etc.

Man your view is jaded isn't it. I have heard many christians say the same thing, that doesn't mean it is the majority. In fact if you take a look at the conservative party in the USA (which is mainly christian) you will find that exact attitude. So again maybe you need to review your allegiance.

Originally posted by sezsue
Have you ever had a child die of cancer. I haven't, but my fiancee died from cancer after suffering for a year....operations, doctors, treatment, and finally becoming paralyzed and spending the last 3 months of his life in a wheelchair in a long term care facility.

I went there every day, from noon til after 9:00 pm every day....I had a 3 1/2 year old daughter at the time, took her there to see her daddy, had to explain why he was gone when he died. I was mad at God at the time, I don't know why it happened, I don't know what the purpose was. But the whole thing taught me something about the resiliency of the human spirit. About the sacrifices people will make for each other. I do know though, everyone dies......and I feel sorry for atheists to think they feel that way. That's a sad, hopeless way to live.

By the way, my love of God is even stronger now.

A child no, Several friends yes, including someone i idealized. He died of liver cancer and i saw every moment as i spent all hours i could in the hospital. You see atheists as sad and hopeless? Man i see atheism as a spur to live every second of your life as best you can because you don't get a second chance or an afterlife. I see people who live mundane lives, never experienceing the world beyond their noses and hoping for something better afterwards as sad because they miss so much.

It's like they're seeing only the back of a flower.

Originally posted by sezsue
Sounds like you are saying life as an atheist is intolerable, I can understand why, you don't have any hope......

Actually i stated i am very happy as an atheist and you are being dishonest in that selective quoting (isn't that against christianity?). i specifically said i was happy and presented the quote you used as hypothetical.

Originally posted by sezsue

People who believe in God are inspired by God the make the world a better place, many people who believe in God have actually lost their lives because of it. What do atheists have to make them braver, their hopelessness?

Atheists strive to make this world better because it is the only world we have and there is nothing after. I said this in my original post so obviously yo unever bothered to read it and just skimmed it over.

Originally posted by sezsue
You are just making a lot of assumptions because you want to see it that way. Most of the religious people I know are down to earth people that go out of their way to help others and have a very realistic and positive outlook on life.

Maybe because you surround yourself with the positive ones. However many of the big wars in this world have been religiously motivated. Even in modern times, the middle east is a prime example.

Originally posted by sezsue
In my opinion, most atheists just want to think people that believe in God need a crutch because they're jealous of believer's faith.

Hell i'm jealous,. as i stated it would be so much easier to believe in god. Ignorance is bliss after all. Sadly ignorance isn't reality. You see you have circumvented this thread, as many chistians do. This isn't about whether god exists or not, it is about the need to believe to cope with the world/ However if you want to rgue it then i can say you have as much proof of your god as i do or the golden unicorn flying around pluto (it's invisible). Why people like you don't see the obvious logical parallels i do not know.

Originally posted by sezsue
They can't understand it, or maybe they really can, but they don't want to admit it because that way they can fool themselves that they don't need God.

It's not about fooling ourselves and if you think it is i'm afraid you're fooling yourself.

Originally posted by sezsue
That way they can keep doing whatever they want, whether it's good for them or not, and it's a way for them to feel good about themselves, feel superior.

I don't feel superior, i'm just pointing out something which i think is based upon our psychological need. Some need it and some don't, like drugs.

Originally posted by sezsue
That's ok.......but I'll tell you what, God the Father wants everybody to come to Him, so all you have to do, is sincerely ask Him to show you He's there, in Jesus' name ask Him to show you in a way you can understand as a human being, and He will, He says He will.

I'm sorry you just lost all credibility. So god wants us to come to him but only if we accept jesus! If that is the case then why does god make children believe the religion of their parents? I mean most kids accept their parents religion because it is indoctrination.

Originally posted by sezsue
God Bless

p.s. I have nothing against atheists, I take everybody for themselves, regardless, I just wanted to show you what a generalist you were being.

Nothing against atheists? Could have fooled me.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
1) Since you are obviously atheist, what happens when you die?

I already answered this and if you didn't see it i can only assume you didn't bother reading my post. That is utterly disrespectful and therefore i won't even bother with the rest of your post. Show the basic respect to read someones post and i will show you the same.