Are Religious Believers Weak?

For all the people arguing about the existence of god

Please stop this, it has no place in this thread and you are just pushing your agendas. I said in my original post that people wh are religious need religion and a belief in god to sustain them, to help them cope. This is a question about religion and it's followers. It does not matter if god exists or not for the discussion of this thread.

So let's hypothetically say god doesn't exist, we would still have religions so why would they be around? Because people need them to cope with the world.
Please stop arguing over the existence of god and also try and remember i never singled out a religion in my opening post.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Religion has everything to do with god existing or not and so on.

You can't ask a question and expect everyone to answer your way. Sorry.

Agendas?

What's this then? "Because people need them to cope with the world"
Your arguing that people need to believe in god to cope.

But at the same time you do not want people talking about wether god exists or not.

So if we were to listen, that would make your argument valid. Because we cannot discuss other reasons for believing in god.

That sounds like an agenda.




[edit on 23-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Again i ask you to take the hypothetical position that because there is no proof for god then there isn't one. Just try and be hypothetical about it if you can.

Religions would exist even if there weren't a god, so it's perfectly resonable to ask why people would believe in them. The only things i can come up with are people needing to believe to cope with life.

You can keep trying to prove your god exists but the sad fact is there is no evidence for it, i cannot prove there is no god because it's impossible to prove a negative like that one. With equal measure you cannot disprove an invisible unicorn flying around venus so why don't you also believe and worship that? See that is why that discussion shouldn't belong in this thread, because it won't go anywhere and won't help at all in any way. It will devolve back into the same argument that the religious bring to any thread they don't like. The existence of god.

So please if you can't avoid arguing that then don't bother posting. I have given you the reasons why and i hope you'll respect them. I also hope you might try and take the hypothetical position.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I cannot make any sense out of your opinion. Because not believing in god is also a belief. That is why this subject of god comes into this question. It's a vital part of answering your question and theories. Ignoring it doesn't make sense.

I don't understand, so I've said what I want, and I will now leave.

Peace.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Maybe you should consider this: Millions of people in all parts of the world and in all ages have believed in a power greater than their little selves. They include most of the greatest scientists, writers, philosophers, statesmen, artists, doctors, warriors, thinkers, philanthropists, architects, teachers, and everday people, to name just a few.

But they are weak and you are strong? That must mean you're superior to most of the people who live or have ever lived on the earth.

How satisfied you must feel with yourself.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Sestias]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

I cannot make any sense out of your opinion. Because not believing in god is also a belief. That is why this subject of god comes into this question. It's a vital part of answering your question and theories. Ignoring it doesn't make sense.

No, to not think god exists is based upon a lack of evidence for gods existence. There is no proof and i won't believe in anything that doesn't have any proof. I suppose i was being ambitious in thinking the religious could answer the actual question posed and not twist the thread into asking if god exists as they do with so many other threads. So i also will take my leave, from my own thread. Never really done that before but oh well.

Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Maybe you should consider this: Millions of people in all parts of the world and in all ages have believed in a power greater than their little selves. They include most of the greatest scientists, writers, philosophers, statesmen, artists, doctors, warriors, thinkers, philanthropists, architects, teachers, and everday people, to name just a few.

But they are weak and you are strong? That must mean you're superior to most of the people who live or have ever lived on the earth.

Hoew satisfied you must feel with yourself.

A poor attack on the person instead of the argument. With religion they become strong as it fills a whole they have. It doesn't limit what they can then go on to achieve as they have their need filled. But hey you keep on with the personal attacks.

They are weak in the sense of needing religion to function compared to people who can function without it. That is what i mean by weakness, obviously you read something else into it. It could also easily be argued that many scientists believed because of the times they lived in.

But hey what's the point, the thread won't be answered with any semblance of care or thought, that's kind of proven with your personal attack on me.

Have fun, see ya.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984


No, to not think god exists is based upon a lack of evidence for gods existence. There is no proof and i won't believe in anything that doesn't have any proof. I suppose i was being ambitious in thinking the religious could answer the actual question posed and not twist the thread into asking if god exists as they do with so many other threads. So i also will take my leave, from my own thread. Never really done that before but oh well.

Well I wasn't coming back to this thread, because you told me I should leave. But it looks like you want to leave instead. So I might aswell reply to this.

You say you won't believe in god because it lacks evidence. So why do you not believe in god? God not existing lacks even more evidence! lol.

Don't be a hypocrite.

There is no twisting in this thread.

Like I said the question of god existence comes into play, when you state that the only reason people believe in god is to cope with life. Why is that so hard to understand? Why are you so unreasonable?

It is unfair to command people to answer how you want.

All I see is someone who doesn't like the replies he gets, why make a thread asking a question, when you do not want people answering them, you don't like the answers so you tell people to leave. So I tell you I will respect your opinion and leave.

But that's not good enough! so you announce that you will leave instead.

I hope you have learnt that not all people will answer how you want, you do not control people, and you cannot control peoples opinions.

Peace.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Oh mate you missed the point of the entire thread im sorry to say. As for you saying there is less evidence to disprove god, well again that's not how you approach a problem because a negative is very hard to disprove. It is on the shoulders of people claiming something exists to provide evidence. You cannot do this as there is none, i will not believe in something that does not have evidence, otherwise i'd have to believe in everything, from planet x to reptilians aliens that were once our gods and currently pose as the British royal family. Please tell me you believe in all of those things and more, otherwise you are being selective in your beliefs without good reasons for doing so. By your own argument you must believe all the crazy theories out there because they cannot be disproved.

As for answering as i wanted you to. I didn't care how you answered as long as you stuck to the question and not what you think the question was. The question was whether religious people believe in a god because they have a whole in their personalities that needs to be filled. They believe blindly without evidence so this shows a need to believe which i would argue is a weakness. It was that need to believe i was questioning, not the actual reality of their being a god.

Now however this thread has turned into that and theres no escaping it.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
All I see is someone who doesn't like the replies he gets, why make a thread asking a question, when you do not want people answering them, you don't like the answers so you tell people to leave. So I tell you I will respect your opinion and leave.

But that's not good enough! so you announce that you will leave instead.

I hope you have learnt that not all people will answer how you want, you do not control people, and you cannot control peoples opinions.

Peace.
[edit on 24-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Actually i didn't like people subverting the question, i asked anynoe who cannot directly answer the question to leave because i want the question answered and not turned into something else. This has happened now and there is no way around it though.

I announced i would leave because someone started with the personal insults and i feared that's all it would become, again you twist what happened.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I hope you have learnt that not all people will answer how you want, you do not control people, and you cannot control peoples opinions.

I didn't need to learn that because i already knew it.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

We can only speak for ourselves. In any religion you have people who believe differently. Nobody that follows any religion can answer the question you pose for the majority of that religion and not mention their own personal beliefs.

You asked If believers were weak, we answered your question. What is the problem. It has been explained several times why believers of any deity can not answer your question without stating their beliefs. It is quite frankly impossible.

reply to post by Ant4AU


We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe it is necessary to comment on the existence of god. But hey lets try this, lets say that god exists, just state it as a fact, then why is it some people would still not believe it and cope perfectly well in life and others would believe it without evidence? Is it because those believers need it to be true?

A person with religious faith is just as strong as someone without any, however if that religious faith suddenly disapppeared from existence then those people would be lost, without direction and unable to deal with the harsh world we live in. So no, we don't need to talk about gods existence but it seems people can't let it go so we'll deal with it and end up in the same old argument. That being there is no evidence for the existence of god but people will say there isn't any evidence to disprove god. Even though the same logic could be used to make any mythical creature a reality.

And now i'm going to bed, i only mention that in case someone replies and thinks i'm ignoring them.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
As an atheist you can marvel at the world and be deeply spiritual in what sense? Since when does marveling over physical things equate to spirituality?

Depends on the physical thing. To look at say, a beautiful autumn deciduous woodland, glittering in gold, orange, yellow and red and feeling connected to the earth is spiritual, but does not require a faith in god, an afterlife or anything else. So yes an atheist can be spiritual as long as we use the broad and not narrow sense of the word.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
It's easy to say people who are religious or believe in God are weak and need a way to cope in the world, but what you fail to realize is that the majority of people who you think are weak have had major experiences with the supernatural. Wheather it was something they have seen, smelled, tasted, felt, heard - or a combination of any of these things doesn't matter because their focus shifts from the things seen, to those of the unseen.

The majority? Care to provide statistics as proof? I was raised a christian and none of the people in my church ever talked about anything supernatural happening to them, and i did ask.


Though science can't test or explain these unseen things - the people experiencing them can't suddenly jump back over on the other side of the fence, so to speak. We move forward - with or without you.

The majority? Care to provide statistics as proof? I was raised a christian and none of the people in my church ever talked about anything supernatural happening to them, and i did ask. I'm afraid that by your logic someone suffering from schizophrenia must be believed because they can feel it.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
A very wise man once said, "Whoever has something in hand will be given more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little they have."

You see me as weak and I see you as deprived. You contemplate my weakness but I don't often contemplate your deprivation.

Deprived of what? I am perfectly happy, so why do i need god? The fact you have stated that you think i'm deprived goes to show that you seem to need god to fill a whole in your life. If you need that then yes you are weak. The quote isn't that wise, but then again i suppose anything written in the bible is considered wise by the followers. Even the bit that tells you to kill others huh

I never said you needed God, only that you are deprived.Lol I'm not the one getting warm fuzzy feelings from looking at ......"a beautiful autumn deciduous woodland, glittering in gold, orange, yellow and red and feeling connected to the earth" and then calling it spirituality.

Why is it all okay for you to "connect" to the earth but if others attempt to connect to something else be it religion or whatever we are classified as weak and must have a hole that needs filled? Weakness implies something needs strengthening - not filled. Deprivation on the other hand implies something is missing... and out of the two is the one more likely capable of being filled.

This is your thread and you are the one pondering over religious believers in the first place. Are you upset because we don't believe the way you do or are you upset with us because we believe what you don't and you don't understand it - so you call us weak? I may fleetingly ponder your atheistic views, but not enough to start a thread. And while I'm at it - you want stats on something, google can be your buddy and you can call it all the names you want and I can all but guarantee it won't call you one back!

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I never said you needed God, only that you are deprived.Lol I'm not the one getting warm fuzzy feelings from looking at ......"a beautiful autumn deciduous woodland, glittering in gold, orange, yellow and red and feeling connected to the earth" and then calling it spirituality.

I suppose the word contented would have been more acceptable to you but i don't think it captures the actual feeling. So used spirituality in a more broad way of meaning than the narrow definition of believing in a god. Why is that so bad?

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Why is it all okay for you to "connect" to the earth but if others attempt to connect to something else be it religion or whatever we are classified as weak and must have a hole that needs filled? Weakness implies something needs strengthening - not filled. Deprivation on the other hand implies something is missing... and out of the two is the one more likely capable of being filled.

Because my feeling of connection does not require an all intelligent being that has no proof. When i say connected i meant the very real facts that when i die my body gets rotted down and may one day feed one of those trees. That to me is an amazing thing. Weak has several meanings and if applied to humans could easily mean there is something missing in them. You can use whichever word you wish they have the same meaning in this context.

When i feel connected i am not relying on anything that cannot be proven, i'm just appreciating the beauty of nature. Although i'm willing to bet a brain scan at that moment would have shown a surge of the same chemicals that the drug ectasy acts upon.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
This is your thread and you are the one pondering over religious believers in the first place. Are you upset because we don't believe the way you do or are you upset with us because we believe what you don't and you don't understand it - so you call us weak?

Neither i'm afraid. I was simply wondering about religion, as i do very often because it's a subject that fascinates me and i came to the conclusion that the reason people jump towards belief in god is maybe because they couldn't cope with the world as it is without some hope you get a reward after. Maybe it is also a fear of death as trying to imagine your consciousness not existing is impossible as the very act of imagining doing it is using it. Some people need religon and others do not, like mind altering drugs, religion just fills a need.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I may fleetingly ponder your atheistic views, but not enough to start a thread. And while I'm at it - you want stats on something, google can be your buddy and you can call it all the names you want and I can all but guarantee it won't call you one back!

Well you fleetingly ponder and allow me to think deeply on the topic. I asked someone to provide stats for what they are claiming, it is not up to me to look for stats on something they are claiming, they are the ones who needs to present the evidence. That is the common problem with religion, you demand evidence against god (which is impossible like any other negative) but cannot provide any.

As i said lets state that god is a real entity, just for the fun of it, god is absolutely real as far as this thread is concerned. Now there still isn't evidence for god, nothing on earth changes we just accept for a moment that god 100% exists.

Now if you choose to believe in him you still do it on blind faith, no proof. You still have religions preaching different messages and fulfilling some peoples needs. Maybe that is why religion exists, as a natural form of a drug, something to perk you up.