Huge gamma-ray blast spotted 12.2 bln light-years from earth

Originally posted by space cadet
I honestly have never heard of a 'white hole' in the universe. I will have to check that out tonight!

As far as I can tell White Holes have never been observed and I don't think there's a scientific theory either, but I've heard it mentioned numerous times.

Basically white holes are related to black holes. They are either blackholes that have reached critical mass where all the material gets ejected in one go thereby going from black to white.

Or they are the backside of blackholes from another universe where the mass gets so great that it rips through the brain of that verse into ours.

Or something completely different...

reply to post by YouAreDreaming

I still struggle in trying to understand if the Universe is infinite, or finite...

It is finite. There are no infinite quantities in Nature. But it is getting bigger all the time.

Is there an edge to the universe

Yes. Spacetime has a boundary.

reply to post by Astyanax


Hi Yizel

I think you mean "brane" as in membrane there mate. M theory (M people great music)

I bet this is the destruction of a civilisation, who destroyed themselves through arrogance and hubris!

Well, maybe. You don't know that they couldn't blow up half the universe!

the Carina constellation is also the home of a hypergiant (Eta Carinae) that is expected to explode as a supernova or hypernova some time in the near future

I have a question, when a big event like this or a supernova was to happen near our solarsystem, would the destructive wave travel faster than the speed of light, so to say we cease to exist before we would see the event with our own eyes?

reply to post by Clairaudience


It would travel at the speed of light. So we would see it and die at the same time. However, there are few types of supernovas and the earth has been bombarded with supernova blasts a few times in the past.

I posted a thread about supernovas couple a months ago, there is some facts and speculations there.

Supernova speculations

Just a few ideas here....

As I understand, white holes were a theoretical concept that were used to balance Einstein's equations dealing with wormholes. This proposition doesn't really hold water though, because white holes (emitting matter that a black hole had sucked in) would defy the second law of thermodynamics.

Also as far as I understand, the speed of light in a vaccuum is considered to be the fastest anything can travel (including all matter, light, gravitational waves, information, etc.). So if any type of explosion in space was close enough to effect us, we should be able to see it before it hits us. That is if there is enough time for our eyes to process the bright flash and get it to our brain!

What I keep thinking about since reading all of your posts is this: In an infinate void of space (wow) our Big Bang theory wouldn't be much more than a cosmic hiccup. How humbling is that?!

What I keep thinking about since reading all of your posts is this: In an infinate void of space (wow) our Big Bang theory wouldn't be much more than a cosmic hiccup. How humbling is that?!

It's all relative. You may have burped out someone else's universe this morning after breakfast.

Originally posted by Cameoii
Just a few ideas here....

As I understand, white holes were a theoretical concept that were used to balance Einstein's equations dealing with wormholes. This proposition doesn't really hold water though, because white holes (emitting matter that a black hole had sucked in) would defy the second law of thermodynamics.

You're right, any matter that gets sucked into a black hole would of been destroyed, i.e converted to energy.
But if there was a way for the contents of a BH to escape, could that not be converted back into matter.
Like in the original big bang?

reply to post by yizzel


That is exactly why white holes don't conform to the second law of thermodynamics. As an observable law, anything within an isolated system will progress from order to disorder...not the other way around. For instance, if you drop a truck load of bricks onto the ground, will they land scattered or in a nice neat pile?
The same would happen in this instance. The destroyed (scattered) matter escaping a black hole could not be transformed into more ordered matter (a new universe).

I am by no means an expert, so this is all just my understanding of it. But it makes sense.

Interesting! That means the actual explosion took place 12.2 billion years ago... meaning it occurred 500 million years after the big bang. "Aftershock" perhaps?

Gotta love astronomic events, they really force you to expand your mind to even comprehend the scales that they occur on.

reply to post by Cameoii


I see what you are getting at. That darn pesky 2nd law of thermodynamics has spoiled my imaginary theories of white holes. Thanks

Darn that entropy...

I wonder just what measurement was used to determine the Gamma-Ray-Blast (GRB) was 9,000 times greater than a supernova.


as far as i understand the typical Nova-superNova blasts out different energies .... UV,IR,radio, visible light & such
but GRBs spit out intense Gamma Rays, rather than the typical exploding
mass model of the Nova.


aren't Magnetic Stars associated with GRBs?

that model would/could work in a early universe massive GRB
as the Nova model did not have enough time to become a 2nd or 3rd generation collection of mass (a super massive star or black-hole)
which then exploded.

and idle thought, what if the GRB which was witnessed was not a star
or whatever...
but was a pocket of 'Space' which acted as a Lens...
and that Lens actually focused some of the Big-Bang energies that happened some 1.8 billion years before the moment this hypothetical Lens came into being....
and we just witnessed it today some 12.2billion light years ago.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming

I still struggle in trying to understand if the Universe is infinite, or finite...

As Einstein once said:

"Only 2 things are truly infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not certain about the first one".

Love that saying.

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but this is hardly breaking news.

Here's an article from last year:

September 22, 2008
NASA's Swift satellite has found the most distant gamma-ray burst (GRB) ever detected. The blast, designated GRB 080913, arose from an exploding star 12.8 billion light-years away.

Source

reply to post by johnsky


So, what would be the furthest planet, star, object, nebula, or black space that we are able to see, with our current telescopes? I'm not sure which is the most advanced right now....Hubble, for deep space viewing..I think?

reply to post by johnsky

i think the universe is inside its own bubble a bubble that is one of many that have there own type of matter and laws of gravity \ life forms.. every now and then 2 bubble universe's merge together and the different kinds of matter battle each other for room leading to galaxy's \ stars etc... moving from one universe to another one would be imposable with out causing a hole and the collapse of the one you leaving \ entering like a pin in a balloon unless you find a way to stabilize the area to be penetrated... im not saying your wrong just that i think differently...


[edit on 20-2-2009 by fatdad]

reply to post by Red Shield


Look up the "Most Important Image Ever Taken" and you will see the furthest we have ever seen. Once you exit our galaxy every single point of light that you see is no longer a star but a whole galaxy, and there are millions/billions of them.

Edit: better yet here:




[edit on 20-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

reply to post by fatdad


fatdad, quite profound, and close to the mark.

retseh, LOVED the Einstein remark!!!! How in heck have I lived for 5 decades and not heard that one? I can die happily, now!

For all, just saw a docu about gamma ray bursts. Now, this event happened 12.2 billion years ago.....because, obviously, Gamma rays, being part of the EM spectrum, travel at the same speed as all other EM radiation.

I think we are seeing remnants of what happened 'shortly' after the Universe began to form....I say 'shortly' because, to us, 2 Billion years seems a long time, but compared to the early "beginnings" and it was a violent place, not conducive to life, yet.....

Billions of stars, forming and dying.....elements being produced, then distributed, to coalesce eventually....and life can now start to form.

Our home star, the Sun or 'Sol', is believed to be at least a third generation star. Of course, stars' lives vary, depending on size.

Anyway, 12.2 billion LY away.....fortunately for us, no imminent threat!

According to the docu.....a Gamma burst closer than 6,000 LY could be dangerous to us....but, we live in a good neighborhood of the Galaxy, so not gonna be any, anytime soon.