The 2012 hoax: possibly the biggest hoax of all time?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Not really a hoax, to me they are highly exaggurated theories based on fact or merly random peoples imaginations, hopes or fears.

In my opinion the most accurate theory is this:

Mayans were highly interested in astronomy, it's quite obvious their calender deals with astronomy, therefore "whatever" the reason they stopped at 2012 obviously has something to do with astronomy. "whatever that means...."


[edit on 19-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

2012 is not even close to the biggest hoax of all time. Period. Most non-spiritual people on ATS would tell you that.

I will say this as fact for your knowledge and know that this is not an attack. I'm calling a spade a spade. You're threads are transparent. Your motives and objectives are clear to those who see. Why do you knowingly choose to "fight" this "fight"?

No need to respond, I won't be back but I hope you seriously reevaluate your overall position, for your sake.

reply to post by Universal Light


I merely try to find out where ideas originate and try to find the truth about them. I have no hidden agenda as you might think. I have been accused by other users of having an agenda of some sort, but, sometimes I just have opinions at sometimes more so than others favoring one thing or the other. Some things I am really strongly against. Most of my topics do not really have an agenda, but, they are how I try to get at the truth really. That is my only agenda. You can't just label people like me who disbelieve certain things, or, who have a certain frame of mind, as having an agenda. You're probably right, in that, it might not be the biggest hoax of all time, but, I think it ranks up there. Now the 2012 hoax is in the media outlets, and, the idea of 2012 has gotten pretty much out of control and left to the dark recesses of our imagination... it's now whatever we want evil to be. That's mainly what I'm getting at...

Frankidealist,

I am curious as to what was the direct cause of your opinion of 2012, and those who hold any stock in it? I assume it was a plethora of things, but what was "the straw that broke the camels back?"

I say this, because clearly...well, it's painfully obvious that you aren't aware of a whole lot of things people tend to point to as evidence for their '2012 Theory #102842a.' ideas. Your generalization of these 'zealots' (liked the term in the earlier post sorry) emits a sparkling hue of ignorance. You even thought the earlier post containing 'ignorance' was about the people you referred to, and not yourself. I have a theory as to why this is.

Tell me, do you bother to click on any of the provided links as you peruse the various 2012 threads around these boards? Do you even read any of the larger, star/flagged posts of this nature (as these tend to have more substance)? Or have you read only a select few (likely, the ones that catch your eye-the ones with misspelled/poorly phrased titles, the ones with few replies due to their lack of substance, the ones tying 2012 and the Bible 2gether, etc) and disgustingly written-off all us gullible sheep; labeling any and all of us (who look@ 2012 as more than just another day) as brainwashed buffoons?

There are a handful of possibilities I consider to be a possible 2012 outcome, as well as numerous others that I may holds doubts toward-but still wouldn't count out the possibility. However, of these maybe's, not a SINGLE one of the points in your OP refer to any of these. Oddly enough, the label you've branded anyone and everyone foolish enough to take 2012 seriously is the one facet of these theories that is taking least seriouslly ('least in these eyes). I'm not claiming that they aren't possible (the Biblical/religious ties to 2012), but of all the 2012 threads/information I've come across, the majority of thoughts regarding ANY religious influence on 2012 are either woefully unsubstantiated and draw minimal response-or they're woefully presented...and draw minimal response.
personal note: not meant to offend anyone in the Bible/2012 regime, I've read numerous theories on here relating the 2 which provided intruiging evidence, and presented their thoughts well enough to make anyone think/consider the evidence before them. However, the bulk of them do not, and thus provide 2012 with the negative-association the OP provides.

My point is this. You just started a thread, with a very serious claim. You had an ENDLESS supply of sources from which to draw from, whether you wanted to go the serious, reliable source/route, or even the Zorcha (sp?/name?), ridiculous route. Instead, you provide us all with major insight into your thought process in the contents of your OP, and how you came to feel that way. What's been revealed? That you know very little-if not, in fact, nothing-about what people in general believe/think in re: 2012.

What drew me to this sight was, in fact, the phrase "Deny Ignorance". As much as the quality of content has dipped lately, there's still no better medium in which to do so than here at ATS. Your thread, my friend, couldn't be furthur from this statement. You offer nothing to prove any point you've made, and your point in itself is way off. You are, in essence, trying to convince people that anyone w/ an opinion of 2012 is already duped by the religious zealots-and that they should not give credence to any 2012 theories, lest they be sucked into the mindless masses as well. Thankfully, your argument is less than compelling, as I doubt you've swayed anyone's opinion with this. Your OP, in fact, should be considered an attempt to "Reinforce Ignorance", as you've asked all who read to refuse considering all 2012 ideas-JUST AS YOU HAVE.

My parents used to do this too, and this is what I had to constantly remind them (and, it seems-you): Just bc you ignore something doesn't mean it's not there!

Everyone hang on to all the 2012 stuff you might have bought. If after 2012 nothing happens, your great grand children might be able to sell that stuff for a small fortune.

And if 2012 stuff happens, those books may become our new "Bible" so to speak, but we probably will not need books then?

It will probably be just another day...........

reply to post by Oolon

hey, you're right! We can make a huge fortune off of all of this.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35

Originally posted by Chilkoot
the logical fallacies in your statement are staggering.

In the first place, you equate '2012ers' with religious nutters, who place their belief in (what you insinuate to be) the book of genesis. By attempting to associate those who disagree with you with the archetypal zealot you have attempted to construct a manipulative argumentative circumstance.

2012 is like a religion. Think about it the way I think about it. People who believe in 2012 believe in it mindlessly. That takes faith. Sounds familiar? People who believe in religion also use faith to believe in religion. Hence methods that people who control religion are being employed by these 2012 fanatics to get you to believe in it.

By invoking words like 'cult', 'religion', 'missionaries' and 'convert' you make very clear that you have no interest in any kind of discussion and wish only to spout nonsense, hoping that someone will either goad you into an argument or lose their composure over these irresponsible words.

I used to be interested in 2012 theories, then, I met reality. You seem to have no interest in my point of view.

Thirdly, you insist on an undefined "they". This tactic was thought to have gone out of fashion about the time of the red scare. You also insist that it is an issue of marketing, however those propogating the idea have little to gain financially from the idea. Sure, there's an oddball here or there who makes a buck writing a novel about it, but those that perpetuate it are the jon does here and at other alternative discussion sites who have a tendency to follow their curiosity.

Same difference. Replace people who are making money off of it, with the believer crowd, and you'll get the same thing. People who believe in it will be disappointed. My point was that these marketers market the 2012 theory- have endless specials on the history channel and they are the main vessels of the message and they bring it to the masses. When 2012 happens their profits will cease to exist on the 2012 phenom, or, they can start writing about the next end of the world.

In short, got any proof for these outrageous claims?

I have a bone to pick with you, first you mention aliens being real, then you try and disprove the possibility of the world ending on 2012, truth be told you know less than others in most matters, you've simply heard 1 or 2 theories and are flying off the handle, here, i'll give you something from a reknowned youtuber

www.youtube.com...

a successful apocalyptic prophecy is one that doesn't come true.

you are given prophecies to try to prevent them from coming to pass. That is the point. If everything was supposed to stay all hunky doory all the time then there would be no need for prophecies.

I suggest every single person in the world research till they know everything there is to know about whatever they intend to talk about then make a point.

Don't speak out of fear and call it knowledge or wisdom. You WANT to believe it is a hoax and you are scared to death you may be wrong. If something does happen, do you want to be one of those that says, "oh #, I guess I was wrong. Now I and everyone who believed me is screwed" or do you want to say, "Hey, look at that. Nothing happened. Ok. Cool. I guess I will just continue doing the same thing I did yesterday."

It is good to be educated. Belief really doesn't matter to anyone but you because that is a choice you make. But, be educated and informed of everything you can get your hands or eyes on and nothing will ever catch you off guard. What you believe is for you and you alone. But knowledge can be obtained by anyone. Getting people to believe what you believe is vanity. Educating yourself is enlightenment no matter what you educate yourself about. And it is for you to interpret for yourself. You will not and cannot have the exact same interpretation as someone else because you do not have the same mind or heart or body or soul or lifetime of experiences. Share your experiences and your thoughts but never, ever put someone else's beliefs down because in a sense they are all the same. The truth is the same everywhere, it is the interpretations that can be wrong or mislead. I learned a very important lesson once and it has always served me well when it comes to social interactions. Never tell anyone you hate something they love. If you practice this then most of your incidents of social retardation will just go away. People will see you as someone they want to respect because you respect them.

2012...people knew about before you did. Do you really think your opinion of it matters to anyone but you? Do you think the universe is going to change or suddenly wake and take notice of you because you don't believe it will happen? Your disbelief says only one thing...you don't believe. OK. Big deal. Did you just come here to insult people or do you have something really enlightening to add to the human universe of thought?

Hey, I went through my dark times too. Stop fighting it because that darkness inside you is like a black hole. The only way to get to anything lighter than what you know now is let go and pass through the other side. You can't fight a black hole. That darkness will eat you alive and ruin every relationship you have and I don't want that for anyone. Pass through the darkness in you and come out with a new perspective.

Big point and the only truth: You don't know. You can't. Belief is flimsy and whimsical. Facts are static. We are not allowed to KNOW anything. We can assume, believe, speculate, ponder and many other human invented words and concepts. But the real point is, none of us know.

Belief is flimsy. Let go of the reed and see where the river takes you whether you believe it will be good or bad or nothing. Or don't. You have to live your life and if you are happy in this state of mind then more power to you. I don't know why you have to broadcast your whimsical beliefs as fact though.

Ha ha. You couldn't be more wrong. All of you who think you KNOW anything. You can't. You are not so special to be graced with the absolute knowledge of the universe. And neither am I. I am just OK with it. So blah blah blah. Keep prattling on if it makes you feel better but what you are really doing is wasting what precious time here you have on something that doesn't really matter. Find your own truth and never step on anyone else's. Live in peace, love in life and have respect for ALL things.

chance favors the prepared mind

reply to post by Richard.M.J.Palmer


I'll watch the video later..

I think aliens are real. But I think 2012 is just an overhyped end of the world idea. There are other end of the world things far more plausible than the idea behind 2012 in my opinion.

I think some people may have concerns NOT because of blind faith though!

humans like to put a date at the end of the world, and, date it, because they have blind faith in these Armageddon prophecies. They have blind faith in religion and they think the end of times are coming

There’s loads of evidence of mass extinctions on this planet within the fossil records, and other evidences like the mammoth that was found perfectly preserved in ice with Sub tropic climate plants in its stomach. And with the climate acting weird “Global warming” The official reason, I am one that looks for clues what other reasons could be causing climate change! And actually recently it’s been disclosed that in fact all the planets seem to be warming up. (I seen it on BBC Sky at night), so wouldn’t this be logical to think something of an outside nature was causing this.
Now the Mayan calendar and culture seemed to put significance to this date 21/12/2012. Now we all know back then the cultures used to build pyramids and other tools to study the stars and sun. But now people are saying that there is going to be some sort of alignment on this date, although I have not seen any proof of this, (can anyone confirm this with proof?). But to top that of we also know that our gravitational shield that protects us from the sun and its radiation, our shield is acting weird its not strong at all (there is proof for that). And with solar maximum being 2012 we could have problems even RSOE Emergency Information Website has recently added new emergency section to the site
Geomagnetic Storm
Solar Radiation Storms
Radio Blackouts
Go to their website and read about the different scales there using to rate the severity of these storms that could be happening soon. (From mild to severe)
www.swpc.noaa.gov...

So there is more to 2012 then just crazy conspiracy ideas, Not that I believe that the world is going to end 

My question to the 2012 believers:

The world may end at some point... but why 2012 in particular?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


The world will not end in 2012, however it is likely by then that the world as we humans know it will be ending.

While everyone is seeking a quick doom and gloom fix and secretly wishing for wars and conflict the reality of the times that lie ahead will likely surpass their wildest expectations and leave them more terrified than they could have ever imagined.

Humanity is entering a much darker, more inhospitable time than ever before, be patient it is coming and you don't need any prophecy to enlighten you now.

Your faiths will be tested by pestilences, wars, the failures of mankind and nature will seem to be hell itself, the tribulations that await us are only beginning to grow in intensity now. If you've ever believed in God, you will be asking where he is at some point, the non religious atheists and like will run out of logical explanations for what has come upon us and will sacrifice their sanity in the process.

Almost everyone can sense what is coming now, and if not then all they need do is pay attention to what is going on around them and around the world.

2012?

Maybe, depends a lot on what we do between now and then I suppose. And unless we (the human 'world') change then we are doomed.




[edit on 9-5-2009 by Walkswithfish]

I think there are a couple of different view points on the 2012 deal.

Group one:

This is the doom and gloomers or scare mongers. Chicken Little....
These are likely the same people who thought the end was going to be in year 2000. When this did not happen, they searched for the next possible date which happened to be 2012. Most have only read the part of the Mayan "theory" which says the last date is 12 21 2012.
This group now grabs everything possible, real or imagined to promote end times doom. The fear factor. These I believe are whom you speak of.


Group two:

Those who have read past the last Mayan date, where it states that a cycle is ending and a new age begins. Where we shed this physical being and tranform into something new. It is viewed as a positive event.

There is some not so good things that may happen prior to or leading up to it but in the end a good thing.

There is also some Hopi elders who agree with the Mayans and say their prophecy is coming to the end as well.

Then there is new agers who would also agree with the spirituallity aspect and change in consciousness.

Additionally there is the religious aspect or believers who read the signs as the ones mentioned in the book of revelations. This book offers no date, only signs and some appear to be fitting in. These signs and this story are remarkably similar to the end time prophecy's within all three major religions. End times--> bad things---> battle with devil/evil ---> saved by . Then life is good.

There is also some lesser known more obscure groups who also have a similar story or prophecy.

Now throw in all of the self proclaimed psychics including the webbot who have backed this 2012 date.

And lastly we have something sort of new. The galactic group of alleged alien contacts who have also backed this up and added their intervention at some point.

Group one has grabbed every worse case scenario from each of these and thrown it all together to scare the crap out of anyone willing to buy.

With all of these different sources I think this particular date has a little more ground then that of 2000 or 1000 or any of the other 200 dates predicted in the past which were mostly all selected based on either one person or one group(save for 2000 which included the y2k computer crash).


This of course is my take on it.

I know no one has commented on this thread for a long time, but i am new here and had something to say.

I started out reading about the whole 2012 thing with skepticism years ago.
The thing that struck out at me was:

The Mayan evolution of consciousness.

I don't know but something about that evolution of consciousness chart struck me as damn accurate. And if that's the case, then yes, something big will happen. I can see the timeline and how things have fallen exactly into place just as they have recorded and predicted.
I do see the acceleration.
I do feel as if through our awareness we will create a better world, a golden age, or something.

And all that was said about entering into this golden age was that the current structure would collapse. That lies, unjusts and so forth would no longer be tolerated and the walls of our world would come falling down and that everyone would see this new light. Problem is they say with every great change, comes great disaster. Out with the old and in with the new i suppose.

So last year when Egypt rose and other nations rose up against their leaders i really felt as if though things were starting to happen. And they really are.

If this isn't prophecy being fulfilled, then the powers that be have created the biggest hoax, nonsense, confusion on earth to fulfill some agenda which to them, can usher in a golden age, by being elite, they can eliminate the majority which they feel inferior and they will go on to live in their materialistic world in whatever capacity they like. I for one, am not looking forward to the future with their rule on this planet.

If you can't see what's happening, that's fine and you can bash my opinions all you like. Read up on that mayan evolution of consciousness. It's not the answer but it put things into perspective for me.

reply to post by Universal Light

2012 is not even close to the biggest hoax of all time. Period. Most non-spiritual people on ATS would tell you that.

Can you list something bigger?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I believe that 2012 is the biggest hoax of all time.

I will attempt to present my case as to why 2012 is the greatest hoax of all time in the realm of conspiracy land.

First, the 2012 phenomenon is based on people's deepest fears. People try to impose their philosophies on what the end of the world will be like...

I stopped reading at this point because I dont of anyone or anywhere that states 2012 is the 'end of the world'

Get your facts straight.

It's not so much a hoax than simple marketing, IMO.

Had the same before 2000, and does anyone remember the Nostradamus hype since Nostradamus "predicted" the end of the World 1999?

"End of the World" predictions are going on since the dark ages already, how else do you think did many religions and cults lure the gullible people? They "predicted" the end of the world already 1000s of years ago

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Do a little reading. I've read the end of the world by:
1. solar event
2. magnetic event
3. melting of the world
4. impact by a celestial object
5. endless tsunamis
6. earthquakes and volcanoes
7. nearby supernova
8. gamma ray burst
9. near miss by a planet

Is that a long enough list?

The biggest hoax of all time...was the George W. Bush, Jr. presidency; and everything that happened, during his presidency. The joke of it all; was the way he came into office, looking and sounding "intelligent"...and left office, looking like a complete idiot. The beauty of it all....he completely DESTROYED the country...robbed it of all it's gold and silver...quietly exited stage left; and nobody batted an eye. Oh, and did i mention...he started 2 illegal wars, and an invisible war on "terror". But hey, let's blame Obama, right?

The world...as we "knew it"...ended on Sept 11, 2001. The sheeple just haven't realized it, yet. Hey, maybe this year...they'll actually "get it"!