If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

Originally posted by noobfun

Respectfully...if you have the presumption/faith to believe that time and chance and more time and chance...helped animals grow bumps, then they flapped um' and flew...more power to ya....

really wanna go into this one OT? .... the creationism boards kinda quiet .. new sport else where may be fun

Oh well, I got a bit of time....noob, here's some more evidence that questions the evolution thing....Oh I dunno? What about the Magnetic Field, Earth's Rotation, Moon Drift, and the sustainability of LIFE...way...way back in the day?" That's kinda like a poem

Magnetic Field. The Earth's magnetic field is essential to life on Earth for many reasons. One reason is that it deflects much of the cosmic radiation that destroys life. Precise measurements of the Earth's magnetic field have been made since 1829, all over the world. During that time, it has deteriorated exponentially -- that is, it has followed a predictable curve. By graphing this curve, we extrapolate that life would have been impossible before 20,000 BC (the field would be as strong as the Sun's at that point) and will cease to exist after 10,000 AD (there will be, for all practical purposes, no field left, and the Earth will be fried by cosmic radiation).

Earth Rotation. The Earth's spin is slowing down. We experience a "leap second" every year and a half. If it is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. A faster spin would create a stronger Coriolis Effect, and life would be impossible as we know it.

Moon Drift. The moon is drifting slowly away from the Earth. If it is getting further away, then at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law in physics states that if the moon was half the distance away, its gravitational effect on our tides would be quadrupled. One third the distance and it would be 9 times stronger. We would all drown twice a day. 1.2 billion (1,200 million) years ago, the moon would have been touching the Earth.

Age of the Earth: Young is Not Unreasonable
There are a number of additional Limiting Factors regarding the Age of the Earth that scientists are discovering on a more and more frequent basis. Interestingly, they all seem to indicate a Young Earth, or certainly, not one that is millions or billions of years old. Contrary to the general thinking of the last century, many scientists now accept that it is reasonable to view the Earth as fairly young.

More here: www.allaboutcreation.org...

Originally posted by nibirusight
There is no Truth, only half lies.....

I dunno?

2 plus 2 = 4

Truth is pretty prejudice...

Pretty non inclusive...

Exclusionary, really...it kinda comes with the territory...

OT

reply to post by Welfhard



Whoosaa!

Deep breath there....


OT

Baptist Deist? Could you explain that? Sound oxy-moronic to me?

By graphing this curve, we extrapolate that life would have been impossible before 20,000 BC

LOL. Ah the lies that creationists vomit. Heard of geomagnetic reversals?

Based upon the study of lava flows of basalt throughout the world, it has been proposed that the Earth's magnetic field reverses at intervals, ranging from tens of thousands to many millions of years, with an average interval of approximately 250,000 years. The last such event, called the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal, is theorized to have occurred some 780,000 years ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

And that's just since the last one. We actually know that the field strength changes a lot over great amounts of time, stronger and weaker. Life 25000 years ago was fine.

Could you explain that? Sound oxy-moronic to me?

They were deists who went to a baptist church. Simple enough. Churches here don't want conformity or mob mentality in their churches, so people think for them selves instead of giving in to the insanity of devout fundamental christianity. Dehumanising.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard


I believe that the story of Jesus may have actually have been inspired by an actual guy....

So is it reasonable that an all powerful God (if he exists) could preserve his message to mankind? Not a stretch huh?

Hey listen I am no fundamentalist, just an ole'dude who talks to JC everyday....this is more in line to my thinking...search.live.com...< br />

what did you think of the short video?

Originally posted by Welfhard

By graphing this curve, we extrapolate that life would have been impossible before 20,000 BC

LOL. Ah the lies that creationists vomit....

Can math lie? If it adds up? And verified? He said "Graphing the curve.."

So is it reasonable that an all powerful God (if he exists) could preserve his message to mankind? Not a stretch huh?

I think it is. If god exists, he doesn't do much, no miracles, doesn't stand in the way of evil, lets man become inprinted with morals from an evolutionary process.His message, "The bible" is absolute rubbish and hardly seems the work of an all-wise being, more of an evil little deficient child. It wouldn't have contradictions in it all the way through and it wouldn't be in disagreement with science.

Can math lie? If it adds up? And verified? He said "Graphing the curve.."

Numbers don't lie, but data samples do. What ever data that graph was made from, it's not a reflection of reality. The fields were just as strong then as they are now.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard

Could you explain that? Sound oxy-moronic to me?

They were deists who went to a baptist church. Simple enough. Churches here don't want conformity or mob mentality in their churches, so people think for them selves instead of giving in to the insanity of devout fundamental christianity. Dehumanising.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Welfhard]

OK, its just sad you had a negative experience with church...

I didn't....fate sucks...well maybe in the 'short-term'

Put a little time on it...maybe something good ull' come from it...?I dunno?

The reason I say that is I've had some pretty awful things happen to me as a kid...but it now seems like a book I read and got over...that what FORGIVENESS does to me and from me...a good thing!

OT

I take extreme comfort in two words..sovereignty and providence...Romans 8:28 is freeing, really!

reply to post by Welfhard



Yeah I hear you...but remember God doesn't want , nor do we really...robots...that spout "I LOVE U JESUS"

So his system allows free will (in time)...in time...cause God does not live 'in time' his vantage point is not linear...so free will is real from our vantage point....

Maybe its a probabilty thing...I dunno?

Since he set up the perameters, his know the rules...

Kinda like I knew Lebron James was going to shoot the ball in the game last night...yeah, I actually predicted it BEFORE he did..wow...not really...I knew the rules of the game...probability dictated he shoot the ball...

But from my vantage point it really was before time...so a prediction...

Silly example...but transferable i think...?

OT



[edit on 28-2-2009 by OldThinker]

reply to post by OldThinker

OK, its just sad you had a negative experience with church...

I didn't say I had a negative experience with the church. Ultimately it was fine when I was young, I got older. I grew out of it.

reply to post by Welfhard



Alright...I see...

OT

You're Right, an actual guy, who didn't want to be the slave for the annunaki.....so he made himself the son of god aka the saviour!

reply to post by OldThinker


I disagreed on principle with some of what they preached and a lot of what they did. I think that any creche that actively seeks to cram dogma down childrens' throat's, taking advantage of the naive trust that children have of adults is incredibly immoral.

So his system allows free will (in time)...in time...cause God does not live 'in time' his vantage point is not linear...so free will is real from our vantage point....

I haven't believed that real freewill exists since I was 10-12. I saw back to the future and figured that if you could travel forward in time then the future must be set in place as much as the past is, which made sense. Why would the future not be absolute? I figured that out even when I was a christian.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by nibirusight
You're Right, an actual guy, who didn't want to be the slave for the annunaki.....so he made himself the son of god aka the saviour!

OK, so how would JC lying to finite imperfect HUMAN beings help him/give him an advantage over the all powerful big dudes from plant x?

OT confused?

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I disagreed on principle with some of what they preached and a lot of what they did. I think that any creche that actively seeks to cram dogma down childrens' throat's, taking advantage of the naive trust that children have of adults is incredibly immoral.

YES, that kinda sh!& really upsets me!!!!

When I look at JC, he was about fun for kids...luke 18:16

Jesus, however, called for the children and said, "Let the little children come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of God belongs to people like these.

reply to post by Welfhard


free will=vantage point

(Some/many) Secular scientists believe there is no time post speed of light...

OT

reply to post by Welfhard


Maybe children/innocent faith...is a good thing, in God's economy?

Matthew Henry says of that passage....

This passage of story we had both in Matthew and Mark; it very fitly follows here after the story of the publican, as a confirmation of the truth which was to be illustrated by that parable, that those shall be accepted with God, and honoured, who humble themselves, and for them Christ has blessings in store, the choicest and best of blessings. Observe here, 1. Those who are themselves blessed in Christ should desire to have their children also blessed in him, and should hereby testify the true honour they have for Christ, by their making use of him, and the true love they have for their children, by their concern about their souls. They brought to him infants, very young, not able to go, sucking children, as some think. None are too little, too young, to bring to Christ, who knows how to show kindness to them that are not capable of doing service to him. 2. One gracious touch of Christ's will make our children happy. They brought infants to him, that he might touch them in token of the application of his grace and Spirit to them, for that always makes way for his blessing, which likewise they expected: see Isa. 44:3. I will first pour my Spirit upon thy seed, and then my blessing upon thine offspring. 3. It is no strange thing for those who make their application to Jesus Christ, for themselves or for their children, to meet with discouragement, even from those who should countenance and encourage them: When the disciples saw it, they thought, if this were admitted, it would bring endless trouble upon their Master, and therefore they rebuked them, and frowned upon them. The spouse complained of the watchmen, Cant. 3:3; v. 7. 4. Many whom the disciples rebuke the Master invites: Jesus called them unto him, when, upon the disciples' check, they were retiring. They did not appeal from the disciples to the Master, but the Master took cognizance of their despised cause. 5. It is the mind of Christ that little children should be brought to him, and presented as living sacrifices to his honour: "Suffer little children to come to me, and forbid them not; let nothing be done to hinder them, for they shall be as welcome as any." The promise is to us, and to our seed; and therefore he that has the dispensing of promised blessings will bid them welcome to him with us. 6. The children of those who belong to the kingdom of God do likewise belong to that kingdom, as the children of freemen are freemen. If the parents be members of the visible church, the children are so too; for, if the root be holy, the branches are so. 7. So welcome are children to Christ that those grown people are most welcome to him who have in them most of the disposition of children (v. 17): Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, that is, receive the benefits of it with humility and thankfulness, not pretending to merit them as the Pharisee did, but gladly owning himself indebted to free grace for them, as the publican did; unless a man be brought to this self-denying frame he shall in no wise enter into that kingdom. They must receive the kingdom of God as children, receive their estates by descent and inheritance, not by purchase, and call it their Father's gift.

source: biblecommenter.com...

reply to post by OldThinker

I would go further and say there should be no "teaching" in creche, it should just be play, that's what kids are supposed to do.

"free will=vantage point "

With all due respect, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. We have no 'free' choices in life, meaning that anything we decide on ever are the things we were fated to decide on since the beginning of time. Like watching a movie that you haven't seen before. We don't know what about to happen but it's still be predetermined. Our lives are scripted by the laws of nature.

"Matthew Henry says of that passage.... "

And I disagree with him on principle. Children are impressionable, so introducing them to any religion before they can think for themselves is almost abusive. It is actually cos you're abusing their trust in you. Matthew is trying to justify pushing religion on children, and that is not ok.

"(Some/many) Secular scientists believe there is no time post speed of light..."
Your point being?

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Welfhard


"free will=vantage point "

With all due respect, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

A stretch I know...bare with me....

Yes, I do agree...with 'time' as a factor...
I'm asking you to marinate for a few days...on this concept...if time was not a factor...


Then my point is plausible, if not truthful...

Use this 'hearsay' as you think..."Where can I go to get away from your Spirit? Where can I run from you? If I go up to the heavens, you are there. If I lie down in the grave, you are there. If I rise with the sun in the east and settle in the west beyond the sea, even there you would guide me. With your right hand you would hold me" (Psalm 139:7-10, NCV).


"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands" (Acts 17:24).


A nd if you are really searching and have the time /desire see.. www.abovetopsecret.com...

its alot mind you...

reply to post by Welfhard


BTW, thanks for the productive conversation...many times this ole guy get a few bruises from the skeptics...

Its been a pleasure!



OT