I've always considered a diesel-electric boat running on batteries to be quieter than its nuclear counter-part at the time. Even the 6th or 7th gen reactors all had a bit of sound, didn't they? Batteries was totally quiet if the crew shut up and you had a decent prop that wouldn't cavitate below 10 or 15 knots.

Of course, now they've got these natural convection nuke plants that can operate at a fair percent of full power without the Achilles Heel of submarine-based reactors: the coolant pumps. In exercises didn't the USN actually look for black holes in the ocean, where the normal ambient noise of the ocean was replaced by a black hole?
Now that's saying something about how advanced Ohios are, even nowadays.

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Quiet...Think Quiet!!!!!!


Thanks,
Orangetom

Intresting post you have made on which I will add to it.

Submarine crews are specially picked. They must have a certain psychological profile..

They must be able to perform for long periods of time in conditions for which most people think would be sensory deprivation...not seeing dayligth or smelling fresh air...for long periods of time. Not getting showers regularly..or even the normal... not being able to stand under running water.. like at home.

Sub crews and even surface ship sailors are known to check into hotels/motels when they get into port just to stand in the shower for long periods of time ..under the hot water and delight..in the hot water flow. This is something we land lubbers take for granted every day.

They must get along for extended periods of time in very cramped quarters...more cramped than trailer park living.

THey must be able to go from long boring routines to absolute readyness and alert at a moments notice where the tension levels can go from routine to through the roof in the next second.

This calls for a crew of a very different caliber than the ordinary surface ship crews. Not many make muster in this requirement.

They are still... after passing this muster ...kept a eye on even underway for those not able to hack it ..on long patrols. These people are isolated and gotten off the ship quickly if possible and it has happened..people cracking up out at sea.

A submarine is a very small cloistered enviornment. YOu tend to know or learn much about the people around you ...even thier personal lives and habits. Often more than one really wants to know. Not many can handle this type of thing on top of operational requirements.

This is why this type of crew...sort of like jet jockeys tend to be a little strange when compared to the average joe schmo...one sees on the street.

But I can assure you ...when you see them operate...either in training or under way..it is professional ...by the numbers/book. They accept no slackers. You make muster or you get the hell out...they dont want or need you. YOu will be very professional or they get rid of you. I dont blame them for this attitude one bit..it is necessary for everyones survival.
When you are operating on or at patrol depths ..you are operating in a enviornment which is much more naturally hostile than those on the surface... and surface conditions can be very naturally hostile.
Everyone in the crew needs to be operating on the same page in the book..no slackers allowed. This is true of surface ships too..but more so on submaries.

This is why this type of crew is so different. When you have been around experienced submarne crews for awhile..and then gone to work surface boats..the difference in caliber of the crew is immediately noticable. It is just something you immediately know....you smell it ..you feel it.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Kilo ..diesel electric...lol lol..funny...very funny...

Totally new revelation..

You do know how nuclear submarines operate under way..dont you ...not what is on the web..but what is not on the web...Right????

Orangetom

Orangetom.........you have any Idea? Russian kilos ARE diesel-electric SSK's..and that is not something i just read off the net..

Now there is no reason to get into a who knows what bashing.
Nuclear powered subs yes. I know what do you want to know?

so do u care to enlighten my as to why u would presume i dont know what i am talking about?

Humm,

I never heard of that one..In all of my 6 yrs in the Us Navy as first a o-lvl tech then I-lvl tech. I do believe modern subs have showers and due to their Watch standing schedule they could get that shower they so desire from the hotel.
6on 12off.

But, i could be wrong as i dont know because I never have been out to sea unless you consider being on CVN-75 and CVN-65 and CVN-73 along with shore duties out to sea. Then again, I have never seen a 688(i) on the surface cruising with our CBG during a photo op for operation Enduring Freedom.

But, then again. I do believe i did my duty. I joined an ALL volunteer military. Put 6yrs into it. But, I am sure..cant be for certain..But the S-3 Viking Squadron on board the CVN-75...Requested my shop to fix some sensors they havent used in awhile...Due, again, not sure, to them dropping their re-fueling role in favor of ASW role. I could be wrong.

Now to be sure. I am wrong. I am going to state: Submarines are a select group...You have to volunteer after first volunteering for Us Navy. Then you are not a true submariner until after you get your dolphins. Which is similar to, could be wrong, Surface warfare and Air warfare Pins..wore over the left breast pocket.

Thank you once again,


[edit on 7-7-2006 by Uikira]

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Uikira]

Yes..Ive worked on the Enterprise..twice...the Truman too...also the Washington, Roosevelt, Ike, Nimitz, and Carl Vinson...dont forget the Reagan..and now the George Bush.
Ive worked them from the flight deck and Island house to the inner bottoms in the drydocks.
Ive also worked every 688 boat built here. Plus several boomers and older 637 class boats...now the new Virginia class boats too.
One of the systems Ive worked on overhauls of carriers is the four steam distillers. I do know that on the Enterprise these systems have been replaced with a newer type system as the olde system was just plain worn out beyond economical repair. THe big E is just plain worn out...almost beyond economical repair...same with the Kennedy. No biggie...there are new systems like this coming on line every day. THe new systems are very quiet...compared to the olde. A distiller or two is going 24/7 to keep a CVN or even a CV in water..both for hotel services and those needed for systems..and that is alot of water ...no ..that is beyond alot of potable water...if one can imagine that much water. Reactor grade water is a horse of another colour.

However...I also know that on a carrier they dont always have the ability to run water in the showers to their content...they use this little spray gadget ..to conserve water. You lather up ...after wetting ...scrub down and then rinse off by pushing the button on the gadget..similar to what is on your kitchen faucet. I was surprised by this when I got in the berthing spaces...on one carrier in for overhaul..before they had ripped up the showers and heads...there was this push button shower gadget on the end of the hose. The water does not just run and run and run till you turn it off. Smaller boats have the same problem. Water is often needed during more critical evolutions like steam for catapults ..engine room..filling storage tanks..etc...etc etc...etc.. Dont forget cooking...a hell of alot of meals to prepare...around the clock..dishes to wash.
Distillers also go down for maintnence....so that adds loads to the other units...to make up ..
I think they tend to call ..extra time in the showers ..a hollywood shower...it can be a luxury...especially on a submarine. I was shocked the first time a sailor told me this in the yards. I alway took the simple act of taking a shower for granted...not anymore. I now know I have it made here as a landlubber and a yardbird.

THanks,
Orangetom

yes..I know the Kilos are diesel electric submarines.

As you can tell from my previous posts I know how our boats are configured ..also from fore to aft...top to bottom...

I know the various equipment on board and how it works.. Stuff that is not in Tom Clancy and others.

For obvious reasons I will not go into certain details. Suffice it to say..many of the posters here in these rooms are not on the mark. You will not find this info on the web...for good reasons.

I do know that they are making improvements in diesel electric boats. This is a concern to our people..from design and engineering to Skippers out at sea.

I also know that with our military peoples...we are usually operating with gloves on ...not bare knuckled. We have skippers and crews ...with brass ones if need be...solid brass. This world ..never wants to see these people with the leash or gloves slipped..off them. Bare knuckled!!! Woe to this world if it ever happens.

It is not our military peoples I worry so much about...it is our Leadership...always the caliber of our leadership. Our history is replete with leadership problems from the begining to now.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999

thanks....I was just trying to get my point across...I thank you for being honest...I have never worked on or built subs...BUT...i know enuff outside of TOM F(N) CLANCY....Red Storm rising was CRAP...and all other works.r 2

I do not nor do I atest to basing my info on just the internet...Maybe I stepped into the forum wrong..on this post trying to enlighten the people asking on common knowledge that can be found on the net..for that orange I am sorry.

If in some way I offended you

I found it truely offensive after posting NON CLASSIFIED info on a question asked by one up the posts about SONAR...that you, a so knowledged person, would call me out after reading all the posts beforehand.

may I ask one simple question? orange?
what is the boot type wore on a deployed US submarine?

Uikira, I've got to say that Clancy's Jack Ryan series, especially the Sum of All Fears, are incredible books worthy of a few re-readings. I don't think you appreciate the amount of work he puts into those novels, even if they are not to your taste. (yeah, red storm rising was crap).

Anyways, thanks Orangetom, I did not know that carriers and other ships had that sort of shower. I had a shower 3 times today for about half an hour each, so I don't think I'll be taking it for granted again

But why not just use salt water for showers? It gets you cleaner than a block of soap ever could.

edit: and then you could rinse off the salt water with a blast of the fresh stuff so you dont get encrusted. That is not feasable??

[edit on 8/7/2006 by watch_the_rocks]

No you did not offend me. I dont think you realized I worked in one of the yards and had done so for years now.

I have never actually been to sea on sea trials. I have had the opportunity several times but I can assure you I get enough excitement in the construction/overhaul phase of these ships. More than enough. Expecially submarines. Not intrested. Out at sea..one is mostly in the way. Most of the berthing is done in the torpedo rooms and you are constantly being made to get up while they do work moving mock up weapons etc etc. Not for me. Not intrested.
I live a rather tame existance now when not working. You wont even get me up to Kings Dominion or Bush Gardens to ride on the roller coasters. I get the real deal in excitement once in awhile at work and on the clock. I have literally had the You know what scared out of me several times in construction/overhaul work. I dont need that kind of second hand excitement at a amusement park. No thanks...I get the real deal in the Yards.

As to what kind of shoes they wear..in port they wear mostly the standard issue navy shoes..low quarters or the half boot for the khakis. the half boot for the guys in dungarees. Some of them wear the full height laced boot. Out at sea or when they are ready to go out on trials you see most in some kind of tennis shoe...Think Quiet!!! Probably a good idea. When you see them on deck ..with life preservers ..handling the lines..they are often in tennis shoes even though there is non skid on the deck.

I agree..Tom Clancy has certain misinformations in his books. This is not necessarily a thing the ordinary public is wont to know or understand...but once in awhile I like to read his books...bearing in mind this misinformation fingerprint.
I believe much of this misinformation is something he must do to get his books published.
I also believe he has become, after several of his books, a sort of unofficial spokesman for certain Government purposes. In otherwords he became such a credible sensation or a American Icon so to speak, he could not be totally shut down so they use him for information/misinformation purposes. I am sure Tom knows much more than he could ever print.

Thanks,
Orangetom

In the olde days ...they did use salt water showers.

However with new systems coming on line in this arena...they can make potable water in greater amounts than was possible in the past. More time and thought to crew comforts is being done than was in the past. Ask any olde timer and compare stories to the newer guys. Especially with women now coming on board.
I am sure that if need be..in emergencys ..salt water showers can be done by special hook up and jumping systems with hoses. or just rigging a hose up to a salt water system.

I think the new systems are called reverse osmosis...a type of filtering/straining.
This system seems to have been greatly improved over the years and the Navy is looking into it for certain applications.

It is not a new system or invention. Ocean going sailboats or power boats have used it for years. I think it has been improved sufficient to where the Navy is now looking into it.
STeam or electric distillers use up alot of power where as these new systems ..not so.

I own a electric distiller through which I distill my city water. IT uses up quite a bit of power in the heater coil before when the tank is full and it automatically shuts off.


Thanks,
Orangetom

"In the olde days," . . . 40's, 50's, 60's are old days?

You posted:

""In the olde days," . . . 40's, 50's, 60's are old days?"

Yes you are correct. Those were the olde days. I do know that they were still using salt water showers on some ships into the 70s and 80s. They can still go back to it if need be.

Dont get above the way you were raised....so to speak. All this high tech is wonderful and saves alot of work which would be ordinarily labor intensive...no doubt. Just dont forget how to do it the hard way..we may have to go back to it one day. Dont get caught unprepared.


Thanks,
Orangetom