Arab Woman Schools TV Hosts on Al Jazeera

reply to post by masonwatcher


if you had taken the time to learn, you would understand that being "secular" means that you have no bonds to any religion or spiritualism, that does not mean that you deny the existence of a god, just that you feel no need to follow a system of belief

how can they be a heretic by leaving a religion that they never joined?, to be born into a society/family that demands you follow their beliefs does not (in this case islam) make you muslim, think about it.

i shall repeat myself again, just because you do not subscibe to a religion, does not mean you deny the existence of a god.

many muslims regard people who do not subscribe to their faith as lesser people, pigs and dogs, this is unfortunately due to the hate preachers who have hijacked the muslim faith and twisted the meanings and created their own interpretations of the writings within the quaran

i am not "such a proficient hater" , my comments are aimed at the people around the world who follow organised religions (cults), and force their beliefs on the rest of us. if you think about it, do you think if there is a god, or gods, that they would appreiciate all of the things that have been commited in their name/names.

people like you are oh so typical on this web site, if i include a part of my post to say that i have no ill feelings towards people just the religions that they follow, you will take that and turn it on its head and read it backwards, as if you are some kind of spiritual profit, wise up , read stuff, see things, but with your eyes open, and stop being so arrogant

Originally posted by Total Reality
reply to post by audas

 

Actually what you're writing is opinion, not fact. And I wasn't stating anything as fact purely opinion, just as the woman in the video was. Everything you just wrote about me makes you look like a hypocrite that's all. Except for one part which I agree with and see your point.

And finally do you think Nazism is more advanced ? Do you think the Goulags displayed a more advanced society ? Do you think the death of over 15 million Indians, the genocide of Australian and American Aboriginals is more advanced ?

I see your point with this but when you try to say that your opinion is fact and try to bash mine, it makes me lose all respect for you. I feel like I shouldn't even dignify your arrogance with a response and I know you're going to come back at me with some a hole response but that's fine, whatever makes you feel better.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by Total Reality]

Even though you agree with me - you are upset at my arrogance.....
It is pure fact - I study philosophy, IR, Economics, etc, etc at Post Grad level - you clearly do not - this is not arrogance it is fact - you may not like this, however that does not change the reality - just start reading - I can give you a list of books if you want.

reply to post by audas


wow, you study philosophy at a post graduate level, you must be some sort of philosopher, that must make you the most intense person in the world, tell me how many great philosophical men have studied philosophy at school?, was it ghandi?, noooo, was it socrates?, noooo, was it plotinus?, noooo, lmfao

reply to post by Total Reality


Ya she's bad ass and courageous...

I'd vote for her

reply to post by THELONIO

if you had taken the time to learn, you would understand that being "secular" means that you have no bonds to any religion or spiritualism, that does not mean that you deny the existence of a god, just that you feel no need to follow a system of belief

Wafa Sultan's translation is by MEMRI, they give routine mistranslations and it is dependent on whether they are after a particular meaning by playing around semantics or take a literal impression . Sultan said that she is a 'secular humanist' rather than 'secular human being'. While in Arabic the context defines the phrase, MEMRI ignored this however the meaning she intended was quite clear and her intent was to indicate an ideology.

What is a secular humanist;

Secular humanists are generally nontheists. They typically describe themselves as nonreligious. They hail from widely divergent philosophical and religious backgrounds.

Thus, secular humanists do not rely upon gods or other supernatural forces to solve their problems or provide guidance for their conduct. They rely instead upon the application of reason, the lessons of history, and personal experience to form an ethical/moral foundation and to create meaning in life. Secular humanists look to the methodology of science as the most reliable source of information about what is factual or true about the universe we all share, acknowledging that new discoveries will always alter and expand our understanding of it and perhaps change our approach to ethical issues as well. In any case their cosmic outlook draws primarily from human experiences and scientific knowledge.

www.secularhumanism.org...

She specifically said "I do not rely on gods or other supernatural forces", exactly word for word as in the front page of the Council for Secular Humanism web page. This is an atheist philosophy.

how can they be a heretic by leaving a religion that they never joined?, to be born into a society/family that demands you follow their beliefs does not (in this case islam) make you muslim, think about it.

How do you know what Wafa Sultan professed before she became an atheist? Regarding babies being born; in Islam babies and young children are perfect innocence which is an idea opposite to fundamentalist Christians that believe they are born with sin in their hearts. In Islam religion is not for them but as they grow Islam is taught. Nevertheless, it is safe to assume these infants and babies are Muslim. Whether you recognise their faith or not, it is wholly your business and not theirs.

i shall repeat myself again, just because you do not subscibe to a religion, does not mean you deny the existence of a god.

I suppose that would be the same as calling one's self colonel yet having not been in the military. In the end that is your business and it is no interest to me. You are the one that broached your belief in God.

many muslims regard people who do not subscribe to their faith as lesser people, pigs and dogs, this is unfortunately due to the hate preachers who have hijacked the muslim faith and twisted the meanings and created their own interpretations of the writings within the quaran

You already said that and I previously responded. Although you are incorrect in your insistence that Muslims believe that Christians and Jews are dogs and pigs, you really cannot demand it to be so.

Most believers of religions think their faith to be the true one, that's the nature of religion. Because of the nature of human beings, some will declare they are superior to others of other religions because they are on the correct path. That is not a problem if there is tolerance with competing beliefs.

i am not "such a proficient hater" , my comments are aimed at the people around the world who follow organised religions (cults), and force their beliefs on the rest of us. if you think about it, do you think if there is a god, or gods, that they would appreiciate all of the things that have been commited in their name/names.

Clearly you indicate you are an atheist since you said 'if there is a god or gods' yet you explicitly target organised religion while implying you believed in God. How can we debate the nature of faith when you don't know your own mind or you kid yourself?

people like you are oh so typical on this web site, if i include a part of my post to say that i have no ill feelings towards people just the religions that they follow, you will take that and turn it on its head and read it backwards, as if you are some kind of spiritual profit, wise up , read stuff, see things, but with your eyes open, and stop being so arrogant

Curious, why do you engage in discourse with people that irritate you? Also, I am not arrogant and enjoy reading about many subjects and speak quite a few languages. I only appear arrogant to you as a consequence of your view of yourself.

[edit on 062828p://am2817 by masonwatcher]

Who needs Muhammad when you have this intelligent woman! She is the real prophet of rationality, civilization, and humanism. Muslims look to a guy who talked to god in a cave??? Why not look to this women???

reply to post by bovarcher

No, it's not. AJ is an 'Arabic-owned' TV channel based in Doha but virtually none of the shareholders, nor the presenters, nor the news editors are 'Moslem.' It's a secular media organization championing original thought. For example, one of the major presenters and agenda-setters at AJ is David Frost. His 'Frost Over The World' programs are also broadcast on the Arabic-language AJ channel with Arabic subtitles. He's not the only one, just one of many. Watch the Arabic language AJ channel regularly for a few weeks, and you'll see.

Wrong again, there is talent from all over the world in Al Jazeera including Frost but the majority of non-Caucasian newscasters are Muslim or Arab.

The only shareholder was the Amir of Qatar, now it includes Qatar National Bank, Qatar Insurance Company and Kuwait's Global Investment House are among eight new investors that have joined Qatar Islamic Bank (QIB) and the Awkaf ministry as shareholders in Al-Jazeera Islamic Company. I don't where you get your financial advise from, but I would sack them.

As for your invitation to watch the Arabic version of Al Jazeera, are you implying a xenophobic attitude?

The rest of the stuff you say is rather vague and nonsensical.

reply to post by audas


Iran has the most educated women? Whats next Iran has the oldest democracy

Like I said, it goes BOTH ways!

How do some Israelis treat women?
This first video of Rachel Corrie is a must see!!!
How poignant she is as a child at the end of the video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVELY GIRL!





I have heard horror stories of women who weren't living up to their role as orthodox Jewish wives and were persecuted, beaten or killed by the husband, mother-in-law and even rabbis holding them against their will!
How about women who are beaten for not sitting at the back of the bus?!!!
HAARETZ
How are some palestinian children treated in Israel?





[edit on 11-2-2009 by Clearskies]

reply to post by masonwatcher


For the record my Arabic is not perfect but pretty good, and the English subtitles on the OP's video are an accurate word-for-word translation of what Sultan (and the Islamic fanatic) say, and convey the precise meaning and context of what is said with no embellishment.


It seems you are determined to pick fights with everyone else on this thread just for the sake of it, and personally insult other posters some of whom who have made interesting, informed and enlightened contributions.

Why you have to accuse both Sultan and half the other contributors to the thread of being 'zionists,' when 'zionism' has nothing to do with the very real argument in the Arab world over mediaevalism vs. modernization, nor with the contribution of those who happen to be Jewish to science, art and the development of the modern world, perhaps betrays your particular obsessions and bigotry rather more than it enlightens the rest of us.

I'm out of here. Bye.

What an awesome woman! I am so glad we got to hear her voice which is such a rarity in this time from that part of the world.
She may be misled as to the purity of the Jews and America, however her stance of building up and not tearing down is one to be applauded. That Mullah looked like the fool that he is.

Originally posted by Total Reality
I definitely don't agree with everything that she's saying, but she has some really great points and owns these news guys. Also, I noticed that we would never see something like this happen on our news stations. They wouldn't even let her on probably if they knew she believed these things. Most Americans believe that Arabs hate western civilization mostly because that's how the media portrays them. It just shows you how sheltered we are by the media.

Well, can you hardly blame so many Westerners for believing that the Majority of Middle Easterners hate them? Just look at all of the loud, obnoxious, hate-filled rhetoric spewing forth from the Radicals in the region.

However, I happen to have close friends and acquaintances from ALL over the World, and fortunately it has always shaped my views. I know that there are quite a few Middle Easterners who not only admire the West, but they actually risk life and limb to make it to these Nations.

It is so odd as well, that Egypt for instance used to be very Progressive and Open in the 1970's, with women wearing Western Dresses, Bikinis at the Beaches and Pools, and Equality was within their grasp. However, soon the Radicals began to resent this emerging aspect of life in their Region, and so now, after years of their Hate and Vile, we are looking at an Egypt full of Veiled, Submissive, and downright Abused Women. This does not apply to all, but certainly more than it used to in the recent past.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by TheAgentNineteen]

Originally posted by THELONIO
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

if you had taken the time to learn, you would understand that being "secular" means that you have no bonds to any religion or spiritualism, that does not mean that you deny the existence of a god, just that you feel no need to follow a system of belief

You might be technically correct in the basis of the terminology, but "Secular", at least in many instances, can still represent a Religious Person who simply does not use their Worship as a basis for Certain Decision Making.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
It is so odd as well, that Egypt for instance used to be very Progressive and Open in the 1970's, with women wearing Western Dresses, Bikinis at the Beaches and Pools, and Equality was within their grasp. However, soon the Radicals began to resent this emerging aspect of life in their Region, and so now, after years of their Hate and Vile, we are looking at an Egypt full of Veiled, Submissive, and downright Abused Women. This does not apply to all, but certainly more than it used to in the recent past.

Hahahaha.....I don't really see the connection between equality->bikinis and abused->veils. It might be surprising to you, but many women actually choose to wear hijabs, and consider them "more 'free' and 'equal' than those forced to conform to western man's concept of what a woman should be"*.

The bikini wearing, western dressing, partying and pools and beaches women are still there. After all, Egypt is a tourist country.
The abused women are also still there (and were there before also...there is more to Egypt than just its beaches and tourism- especially for those parts that are hidden away from the main cities).
There are also those women who are certainly not abused, but choose not to waste their time with partying at beaches and pools in their bikinis and western dresses. They wear whatever clothes they want, do whatever work they want, and make an effort to contribute.

*Not my words, but hers

Originally posted by rosio


I don’t know if I agree with her use of Jews as an example of passive non-aggressors, its very short sighted to claim Jews never blow up churches in the name of their religion, given what we’ve seen over the last short while in Gaza.

Without detracting from this thread, and without going off into multiple directions, I do think you need to realize that those were ISRAELIS responding to Rocket Attacks on their NATION. You forget that Israel is a Nation, with all Religions apparent among its citizenry. To narrowly construe that as to an issue taken forth by "Jews", is to truly misunderstand the situation at hand.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

Without detracting from this thread, and without going off into multiple directions, I do think you need to realize that those were ISRAELIS responding to Rocket Attacks on their NATION. You forget that Israel is a Nation, with all Religions apparent among its citizenry. To narrowly construe that as to an issue taken forth by "Jews", is to truly misunderstand the situation at hand.

Actually you are mistaken. You can only immigrate to Israel if you are Jewish. Arabs that live in Israel are the remnants of those Palestinians kicked out of the land. The Palestinians constitute Christians, Muslims and a tiny amount of obscure Semitic religions.

The Palestinians fire home made rockets in response to the Gaza blockade, assassinations by Israel and Israeli incursions.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


Israel is a nation with amazing rubber-band borders!
They stretch and take others land!
globalexchange.org

Israel's continuing settlement activity is a violation of international humanitarian law (IHL), United Nations Security Council resolutions, and Israel's own commitments under the U.S.-sponsored Road Map of April 2003. The Israeli government's policy of encouraging, financing, establishing, and expanding Jewish-only settlements in the OPT violates two main principles of IHL: the prohibition on the transfer of civilians from an occupying power's territory to the occupied territory, and the prohibition of creating permanent changes in the occupied territory that are not for the benefit of the occupied population. In particular, Article 49(6) of the Fourth Geneva Convention states that "[t]he Occupying Power shall not ...transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." Under the road map, Israel agreed to freeze all settlement activity, including "natural growth," and to dismantle all settlement outposts created since March 2001.

When you take thousands of people, put them on a tiny refugee camp,
come in and terrorize them, no doubt you are going to have anger besides the fact of Islamic fundamentalism and religious intolerance!

I am saying that shooting a Palestinian girl in the eye with a rubber bullet (Or real one)and maiming or killing her (because Israelis have scopes, their guns are not like Lee Harvey Oswalds!)
is EVERY bit as bad as blowing yourself up as a martyr and maiming or only killing, one Israeli child.
Dead is dead. Which is better?

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
What an awesome woman! I am so glad we got to hear her voice which is such a rarity in this time from that part of the world.

You say this like it's the truth.

Do you watch arabic TV? I don't think you do, because if you did, you would see women all the time stating their views, on all topics, on tv shows etc It's not like they are hidden away. They are on tv all the time like acting in dramas, comedies, singing, music videos etc

While there are some places that women are abused and controlled. It is still rare. Some western people like to make a big point out of women over there,as if they "know" the real truth. But their opinions only come from western media. haha

In most of the more civilized areas, women have plenty of control, just like any other country, infact some women control the men haha, especially the type you see in this video lol. Arab women are stronger than a lot of western people assume lol.

Try to watch arabic tv, meet arab women, and people will get a better idea of reality.

Few examples just in case people don't believe that women actually "can" be free to do what they want and that it's not rare at all.

The woman in the headscarf is sooo pretty






Short hair girl is cute!



[edit on 12-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by babloyi


Yes and this body culture of bikini clad women means that women of a certain age, women with womanly bodies, ethnic and black women that do not conform to the stereotypical idea of fleshy sexy are relegated as insignificant and marginalised.

This is a form of societal oppression of women in the West causes women not to have a role in the home and are alienated from the community. Invariably, they poorest and most abused often left to raise children on their own without a father in the house.

[edit on 112828p://am2828 by masonwatcher]