Iran. Perceptions and realities. The truth...

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posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
I'd say no to war in Iran when Iran says no to supplying Chinese weapons to the Taliban....

When Iran says no to developing nuclear weapons and threatening war against other countries.

I'd say no when Iran stops supplying weapons to Hamas in Gaza.

I'd say no when Iran stops supplying rockets to hezbollah in Lebanon

Until then the deafening silence from hypocrites who fail to condemn Iran's belligerency says it all.

People could come up with many similar reasons on why they should attack the USA. Does it make it make it right thou? What about the american people who will suffer?




posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


Ignorance is never funny. Six million Jews were killed by ignorance. If someone called my mother a dirty Muslim, why would ignorance make me laugh?

Are you not doing the same thing that you say people are doing to Muslims? You say a lot of people put Muslims in one group are you not putting those same people in group? But you have missed my point. This forum is not that one group of people. It is after all a conspiracy site. Why would you think that people here are that one group that you claim makes out every Muslim to be a terrorist?

I like how you use the words Muslim and people. Can people be Muslims and can Muslims be people? What is the difference? You want to know why Muslims scare me? It is because they will put their god before my family. My family, my community, my city, my state, and my country, there god comes before all of this. That does not make them violent people but you see how cannot I trust someone who puts a book before humanity? I think actions speak louder than words. What actions did the "Muslim" people take to separate church and state? What actions did the "Muslim" people take to stop terrorism and fundamentalism?

Gandhi used non-violent resistance to free half a billion Indians. Why have Muslims not done the same?



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
You want to know why Muslims scare me? It is because they will put their god before my family. My family, my community, my city, my state, and my country, there god comes before all of this.



Don't be afraid that much, fear eats the soul.
And, no they will not put their god before your family, community, city or state. But I think you will prefer not to understand it. What you are talking about is a VERY small minority within Muslim community.
Before that, didn't Western people killed hunderts of millions people.?. It is not about religion, civilization or whatever. It is about humanity. Do not create fake monsters for yourself. Most terrifiying monster is within you, it is called fear.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


Ignorance is never funny. Six million Jews were killed by ignorance. If someone called my mother a dirty Muslim, why would ignorance make me laugh?

Are you not doing the same thing that you say people are doing to Muslims? You say a lot of people put Muslims in one group are you not putting those same people in group? But you have missed my point. This forum is not that one group of people. It is after all a conspiracy site. Why would you think that people here are that one group that you claim makes out every Muslim to be a terrorist?



First of all your arguing over something silly here. I don't know why I have to explain myself on why I found it funny....

I have not put ANYBODY in any group, I am only reminding people of what you do NOT see in western media much, I have not put anybody in any group.

There ARE people out there with hatred towards all muslims, including this site. If you would actually read what I've been saying, I said that most people do not do this! So your arguments are not making sense to me at all....

There are people who do not do this, and would ENJOY watching a documentry that would "remind" us all of why we do NOT hate "all" muslims.

This thread is not targeted at any group. It's for everyone.

So please stop picking on little things and trying to make an argument.

As for the why muslims don't do anything, well in fact there are plenty of imans who denounce terrorism, there are plenty of muslims who denounce terrorism. What else do you want? more wars more violence?? War breeds terrorism, terrorists flock to wars. Terrorists LIVE for wars, terrorists LOVE war.

Violence obviously will not solve this problem, and I'm quite proud that most muslims are not trying to solve this situation by getting violent and angry in this "war on terror" Because since the war on terror started, we now have more terrorists than ever before, ironic.
It is needed if any muslim knows of any terrorist activity and muslims can report them. Violence will obviously be the conclusion of that, but it is needed I guess.


What muslims ARE doing is reminding everyone that terrorism is wrong. Education.

Imans in India.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
Movement agains terrorism.
muslimmedianetwork.com...

Famous song in pakistan, famous singers come together to sing a song agains terrorism, "this is not us"



Pakistan petition agains terrorism.

60 million pakistanis sign petition against terrorism.


Great video showing research about muslims who denounce terrorism. If you have any doubts you must watch this video




On this website you can report any suspicious behaviour of extremism.
www.freemuslims.org...

Websites against terrorism.
www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com...
www.changethestory.net.../muslims-denounce-terrorism
www.theamericanmuslim.org...


Where's all this in mainstream media? All this is rarely shown.
It's pretty obvious that you do not see muslims doing anything, because you only get your facts from the usual daily western media. But it's out there, in arabic tv, on media that we miss out on. This is the point of my thread, to show what we rarely see. And to discuss what that does to our perceptions.


[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


I think actions speak louder than words. What actions did the "Muslim" people take to separate church and state? What actions did the "Muslim" people take to stop terrorism and fundamentalism?



Hey, you are not wrong here. But consider this that Islam was created more than 600 years later than Christianity, so they still have time, if we consider how many people christians slughtered meanwhile.
On the other side, it would be very wrong to think that majority of muslims are approving pure bloody acts in the name of Islam, on the contrary, they know that such acts make Western people think that Islam is evil.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Well, the Iranians is a strong nation (mental health, practically no mental deviations, good\healthy genepool etc,)... dont try even to compare with the americans or the populations of most of the european countries...
again, these are the results of normal (iran - the society that supports norm) and pathological society(the society that supports deviations) ...


What we hear all the time is split rhetoric: there are some "countries of the third world" and for them the anglo-american coalition has been overthrowing some vague "tyrannical regimes" all the time... when in reality these tyrans just want to raise their peoples off their knees, but no one managed yet... The world is a big concentration camp with the english-speaking guards...


[edit on 15-2-2009 by Russi]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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If you got rid of the religous nazis then iran would be a tourist hot spot! FACT, the country and people are top notch! the religous wackos that run the place however......



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Europe
If you got rid of the religous nazis then iran would be a tourist hot spot! FACT, the country and people are top notch! the religous wackos that run the place however......


Hey Europe, you should change your map in 11 years and add Turkey

Actually Iran's Shiite culture has always the concept of revolution in itself (just look at the 20th century history of Iran). In the next decades I am waiting from Iran huge steps in the name of a religious reformation.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by deccal]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


You have not answered any of my questions but chose to support an agenda of your own. We both agree there are good people Muslim or not.

I don't know why you cannot admit you were wrong about finding ignorance funny. It is also not a small thing, I chose to ask you about it because it stuck out to me.

There is a quote that I think describes the moderate Muslim perfectly,

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

They sign petitions but the bombs do not stop. They say we are moderate but look the other way.

Gandhi freed half a billion Indians with non-violent resistance? I ask why can't Muslims do the same? Why do they chose to blow themselves up? I will keep asking this question until a someone can answer it fully.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by Founding
 


............


Did you not view the video, there are many muslims who denounce terrorism, who go to protests. Who give out education to help stop terrorism.
Repost for your pleasure.


It is you who seems to have an agenda..

What else can they do!? It's not like they know where these terrorists hang out. It's like you think they can magicaly fix the problem, do americans know where all the criminals are hiding? Why don't americans stop these crimes? They ARE one of the countries with the highest crime rate in the world! Why aren't they doing anything!? Are you american? Why aren't you doing anything?

As for the comment about my mother, give it up already, your making something out of nothing, your not making sense. Damn....



[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


They can stop blowing themselves up and killing innocent people that's what they can do about it. The government can separate church and state and prosecute religious extremists to the full extent of the law. The people can stop turning a blind eye and actually protest in the streets about what these guys are doing.

You know what is ignorance. Showing me a petition 60 million Pakistani signed and then the terrorist attack in Mumbai happened. Are they going to sign another petition? Because putting your name on a peace of paper sure changes things.

I will give you another chance to fully explain the ACTIONS Muslim people have taken to combat terrorism.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


They can stop blowing themselves up and killing innocent people that's what they can do about it.

The people can stop turning a blind eye and actually protest in the streets about what these guys are doing.

You know what is ignorance.


They?

Protests? Did you not watch the video....

My god.........you say I ignore things....and you talk about ignorance...




Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


I will give you another chance to fully explain the ACTIONS Muslim people have taken to combat terrorism.



It's ok I'm fine. Carry on.

Peace.


[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 



Did you say peace
Now that is funny ignorance.


Good Luck with avoiding the truth. If you want learn something maybe you will debate me.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Founding]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 



Did you say peace
Now that is funny ignorance.


Good Luck with avoiding the truth. If you want learn something maybe you will debate me.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Founding]


Why is it ignorance?

I just don't like your tone really, your too aggressive for me sorry. And you don't make any sense to me, I feel like I'm going around in circles with you, and you refuse to read or watch what I provide, yet you accuse me of avoiding your questions, hypocritical for sure and ironic.

It's impossible to have a reasonable debate with you.

Maybe another time mate.

Peace.


[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


Lets debate. Put your words on the line.

The topic will be on the extent of fundamentalist Islam on the Muslim community. If you can prove that most Muslims do not side or agree with the fundamentalists then I will admit I was wrong. If not then take back what you have claimed in this thread. No more circles for I am tired of your BS. Ill be waiting for your response

Truth and Peace.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


Lets debate. Put your words on the line.

The topic will be on the extent of fundamentalist Islam on the Muslim community. If you can prove that most Muslims do not side or agree with the fundamentalists then I will admit I was wrong. If not then take back what you have claimed in this thread. No more circles for I am tired of your BS. Ill be waiting for your response

Truth and Peace.


So are you trying to say that most muslims DO agree with fundamentalists. e.g extremists, terrorists?

Also what am I claiming? What bullsh*t?

I'm not sure why your so tired of it. Your confusing me more than anything lol, and that gives me a headache.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


You know a head ache is the first sign of a guilty person. Yes that is exactly what I am saying that a good percentage of Muslim people support the fundamentalists.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


You know a head ache is the first sign of a guilty person. Yes that is exactly what I am saying that a good percentage of Muslim people support the fundamentalists.

Guilty?....sigh....
I am not going to debate with you anymore. Like I said you confuse me and your too aggressive. I can sense hatred in your words.

I just noticed that almost all your posts on ATS has something to do with anti-muslim and pro israeli .....and almost no comments in any other topics, that kind of says a lot.

That's the reason why you turned this thread about perceptions of people and what the media potrays, into your personal anti muslim debate.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


There is also a reason why you do not want to debate me. Two sides to every story. Why do you choose to not back up your words. You claim that not all Muslims are extremists or support extremists? Thus, why can't you prove it in a moderated debate? You call me aggressive but what does that prove, only that you cannot back up anything you say. I have tried long and hard to bring some truth to the middle east section. Just because I post there and support Israel does not make me a bad person. You say people group Muslims, then why do you choose to group me? Good luck with finding peace.

Peace.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


There is also a reason why you do not want to debate me. Two sides to every story. Why do you choose to not back up your words.


Because I already have.....and you obviously ignored it.

Most people know that most muslims do not support terrorism, I have already given you some proof, most people do not need proof for something so obvious. People who know muslims know this as fact, not one muslim I know supports terrorism.

I did not choose to group you, I just found it ironic after seeing your posts, that you said I have an agenda. You say there are two sides to every story, well as you can see that's what I'm doing, I'm showing people the other side to the story, that's what this thread is all about.

Peace.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]





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