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Two questions for all Freemasons here, from someone considering joining

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posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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I have a deep, longstanding interest in Freemasonry. I've read quite a bit of Masonic literature, and also have a family history of membership in Freemasonry on my mother's side. My father's side I don't know about where this is concerned, but I very much doubt I have Masons in the family there, seeing as how most of my ancestors on that side of the family are from Sicily, Naples, and France.

First of all, if I join, after gaining a good understanding of the Blue Lodge, I'd almost certainly go through York Rite first. But would I be welcome in the Scottish Rite? I ask because, having read some Scottish Rite literature, it seems rather universalist and secular humanist to me. While I'm a very religiously tolerant man, I don't believe all paths are equal paths to god or anything of that sort.

Secondly, does my private, personal opinion on race make me unwelcome in Freemasonry? I ask due to all the talk of a "universal brotherhood of man." I have racialist leanings, believing that, since God created all of mankind and guided the evolutionary process, he guided humanity to different phenotypes. I'm against racemixing on the grounds that I would hate to see this God-created diversity go away. This could contradict the "brotherhood of man" concept, if it were taken to an extreme level, though I, personally, just interpret it to mean all people are people, and should be treated with dignity and respect.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by AqualungOnTheParkBench]




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by AqualungOnTheParkBench
[God-created diversity go away]

'Diversity' as we know it today happened only because Kings and Queens and Warlords set up artificial borders and laws and made it generally difficult for different peoples to marry through personal betrayal of war that made different people enemies of one other and other sociocultural race-based events or conflicts that entrenched the idea that most people are different country from country, and therefore should only mate with each other.

Diversity is the work of Religion, borders, and environmental factors.

There's nothing really miraculous about diversity in than it was unknowingly manufactured and strengthened by humanity!

Race is just an illusion that grew over time.

Cats and dogs can't breed together, not even a chimpanzee or an orangutan but humans can, even if they are polar opposites in appearances, two groups separated from each other ever since.

With that logic... how can humanity mixing together be against God when mixed race couples can have healthy, normal children?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Masonry does not have any beliefs or requirements on race, but rather teaches that everyone is equal. You aren't 'required' to believe in equality but if it bothers you then you might not like Freemasonry.

You must also believe in a Supreme Being and have no felonies (local lodge requirement, mileage may vary).

I don't think it would be an issue of Freemasonry 'accepting' you, but rather your comfort with the teachings that we are all equal under the Supreme.

Discussion of racial issues (in my lodge anyway) would fall under the same prohibition as religion/politics. In other words racial beliefs would never be discussed in the lodge due to the possibility of disharmony.





[edit on 2/5/09 by emsed1]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
Masonry does not have any beliefs or requirements on race, but rather teaches that everyone is equal. You aren't 'required' to believe in equality but if it bothers you then you might not like Freemasonry.


Ah. I do firmly believe in equality in the eyes of God, yeah. I support racial diversity, but believe all races are created equally by God.


You must also believe in a Supreme Being and have no felonies (local lodge requirement, mileage may vary).


Well, I think my mentioning God in my opening post clears that up. And, no, I have no felonies, or even a misdemeanor on my belt.


I don't think it would be an issue of Freemasonry 'accepting' you, but rather your comfort with the teachings that we are all equal under the Supreme.

Discussion of racial issues (in my lodge anyway) would fall under the same prohibition as religion/politics. In other words racial beliefs would never be discussed in the lodge due to the possibility of disharmony.


Yep, perfectly fine with all of that.

Alright, this all seems to clear up the second question, so it seems I would have no problems in Freemasonry. Thank you

The only thing still questionable is the Scottish Rite, as much of it's literature seems to indicate all religious paths are equal in reaching God. That's something I don't agree with.

As for Star's response, I have no interest in a discussion on that, but think about the following: You mentioned environmental factors, evolution. There you have it. Genetic diversity, ergo race. Also, the sciences of anthropology and genetics completely disagree with your belief that race does not exist, as they're founded exclusively on the study of race.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by AqualungOnTheParkBench]

[edit on 5-2-2009 by AqualungOnTheParkBench]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by AqualungOnTheParkBench

Originally posted by emsed1
Masonry does not have any beliefs or requirements on race, but rather teaches that everyone is equal. You aren't 'required' to believe in equality but if it bothers you then you might not like Freemasonry.


Ah. I do firmly believe in equality in the eyes of God, yeah. I support racial diversity, but believe all races are created equally by God.


I don't know that your qualification quite passes the sniff test. Please correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to believe in separate-but-equal, kind of like the seats at the back of the bus are as plush as those at the front; it's just that they're reserved for certain riders?

Equal is equal without prevarication.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Fitzgibbon]
edit to fix formatting again

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Fitzgibbon]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:13 AM
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My personal opinion is that acceptance and equality of all races is an essential facet of Freemasonry.

I, for one, would blackball a candidate who would not treat a Mason of a different race as his brother.

That being said, if you did join, perhaps Freemasonry would change your point of view...



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by AqualungOnTheParkBench


The only thing still questionable is the Scottish Rite, as much of it's literature seems to indicate all religious paths are equal in reaching God. That's something I don't agree with.



In this regard, the Scottish Rite is similar to other branches of Masonry: what you believe about religion is your own business. Whether all (or, for that matter, any) religious paths are equal is a matter of personal opinion, and is not a teaching of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite.

However, I would also hasten to mention that the purpose of initiation is not to pander to one's already preconceived ideas, but to open the candidate up to new ones. If the degrees did nothing but teach what we already knew or believed, there would be no point in being initiated into them.



[edit on 6-2-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

I don't know that your qualification quite passes the sniff test. Please correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to believe in separate-but-equal, kind of like the seats at the back of the bus are as plush as those at the front; it's just that they're reserved for certain riders?

Equal is equal without prevarication.


There seems to be a massive misunderstanding here. I believe all people are equal. I do also believe human races were guided to their specific phenotypes by God, and thus oppose racemixing in breeding.

Despite my views on who should screw who, I believe all humans should be treated equally, with their individual merit being the only deciding factor.

My "separate but equal" views apply only to breeding, essentially.


Originally posted by Saurus
I, for one, would blackball a candidate who would not treat a Mason of a different race as his brother.


I would treat a Mason of a different race as my brother, but I wouldn't have children with his sister.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by AqualungOnTheParkBench

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

I don't know that your qualification quite passes the sniff test. Please correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to believe in separate-but-equal, kind of like the seats at the back of the bus are as plush as those at the front; it's just that they're reserved for certain riders?

Equal is equal without prevarication.


There seems to be a massive misunderstanding here. I believe all people are equal. I do also believe human races were guided to their specific phenotypes by God, and thus oppose racemixing in breeding.

Despite my views on who should screw who, I believe all humans should be treated equally, with their individual merit being the only deciding factor.

My "separate but equal" views apply only to breeding, essentially.


Originally posted by Saurus
I, for one, would blackball a candidate who would not treat a Mason of a different race as his brother.


I would treat a Mason of a different race as my brother, but I wouldn't have children with his sister.


I Joined and my views are quite similar to yours my friend. I would not like my children to be mixed race and i also would not want my children being brought up a different religion to me.

You are quite right to be pro- whatever you believe in, this doesn't make you a bad person and you can still have your views and voice on other things you dislike in the world, but sometimes fellow masons dont like this as it rots the cement of brotherly love.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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WHy would you want to " Rot the cement of brotherly love?" Seems very non-masonic to me



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by AqualungOnTheParkBench
 

I understand your concerns about your beliefs and they do contradict masonry's teachings. I'm a mason and I have a tattoo on my chest that could be considered a hate symbol. My ideas on race have come to be more harmonious with the brotherhood and socity in general. I got the tattoo when I was young and I didn't have a well formed idea about the truth and beauty of the world. I really regret ever marking my body in such a way, and plan on removing it. My point is that this didn't exclude me from Free Masonry ,and to go through the initiation everyone in the lodge could get a good look at it. All you are required to do is believe in a higher power. Some say the point of masonry is to make better men through self improvement , and the teachings of masonry may chalange you to rethink some of your views. good luck with your initiation



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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