Outbreeding the enemy - does it work?, page 1/

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Topic started on 5-2-2009 @ 09:08 AM by FlyersFan

Calls to outbreed the enemy have been around since the beginning of recorded history. Did/does it work??

Moses did it. He was ‘lost’ in the desert for 40 years. But of course he wasn’t lost. He was sitting there building an army through breeding. Bored people sitting in the desert are going to find some ‘entertainment’.

And that entertainment turned into a massive army that Moses brought with him to take over ‘the promised land’. It was pure military strategy to sit in the desert and build two generations of new soldiers to fight.

The Catholic Church of old did it. They used the fear of ‘Onanism’ in order to have people procreate as many children as ‘God wanted’. Back then the Church was militaristic and higher numbers in the church would have processed into higher numbers of ‘holy warriors’.

The Protestants did it as well. It wasn’t until the 1900s that most Protestant churches changed their mind that birth control was a sin. They knew higher numbers would mean more soldiers and more wealth.

Hitler did it. He had ‘Mother’ medals made for German woman of pure blood who had six children or more. He had the ‘Aryan orphanages’ where pure-blooded German women would fulfill their duties to the homeland by pumping out blond haired blue eyed babies for the glory of Germany. (Leibensborn Nazi Breeding Orphanages).

Radical Islamics call for it today.

Israel understands that it will be outnumbered and they understand breeding as a weapon. (see article in this post)

The Pope recently called for Europeans to have more children
(to counter the growing Muslim population)
Japan Today
BBC News

Shiv Sena asks Hindus to have more children –
(to counter the growing Muslim population)
India Broad News
Guardian UK

Yasser Arafat said that the most important weapon of the Arabs is the “Arab womb,” the motto being: “If we can’t defeat them in war, let’s outbreed them.”

Houari Boumédienne, Algeria’s ruler until his death in 1978, said in 1974 “One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory .

Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement

Book 11, Number 2045: Narrated Ma'qil ibn Yasar:
A man came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: I have found a woman of rank and beauty, but she does not give birth to children. Should I marry her? He said: No. He came again to him, but he prohibited him. He came to him third time, and he (the Prophet) said: Marry women who are loving and very prolific, for I shall outnumber the peoples by you.

Is family planning allowed in Islam

The prophet (saw) not only encouraged marriage but he encouraged marrying those women who are child-bearing. He stated: "marry the loving, child-bearing women for I shall have the largest numbers among the prophets on the day of Resurrection." (Recorded by Ahmad and ibn Hibban.)

Khomeini called for Muslims to procreate more Muslims. ‘An Islamic Regime must be serious in every field … ‘ (including the field of breeding) More Muslims means more power. More Muslims means more soldiers.

Israel 21

.. Israeli women have an average of 2.89 children during their lifetime: Jews overall average 2.64 kids; Muslims 4.58; and Christians 2.29. …Halperin noted that both Jews and Arabs have long viewed children as an important weapon in their long-standing national conflict, a fact that has shaped government policy in both Israel and the Palestinian territories.

"A while back Yasser Arafat declared that he would win the fight against Israel by using the weapon of the womb," Halperin said of the Palestinian leader. Likewise, Halperin recalled," David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, understood 50 years ago that in order to survive, you need more than 600,000 Jews in a region that has millions of Arabs."

Daily Mail UK

"Just look at the development within Europe," said a triumphant Norwegian imam a few months ago, "where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children. Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."

The Telegraph – Calcutta India

.. Muslim birth-rates are a portent of disaster because Islamists publicly proclaim their intention to take over Europe by outbreeding the natives …

Asian Times
Demographics of Radical Islam. Muslim birth rate is the second highest in the world. As education goes up, radicalism goes down, and the birthrate goes down.

Muslim birthrate worries Russia

Koenraadelst demographic information

… according to official surveys, "the disapproval of family planning is highest among Muslims", while "the practice of family planning methods in 1980 was lowest amongst Muslims … Muslims have considerably higher fertility than any other religious group. Muslim women have a TFR of 4.4, … In no Arab country does the population increase at a rate lower than 2.5% per year. In practically every Arab country, more than 4 inhabitants in 10 are youngsters below 15 … the girls born in response to Khomeini's call for more Muslims will soon reach marrying age; 45.5% of the population is under 15. …

Brookings Institute

Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent

Birthrates by religion

The Wall Street Journal – It’s the Demography, Stupid

Sahih Bukhari:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "If you enter (your town) at night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair" Allah's Apostle further said, "(O Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!

Express India

"The annual average growth rate of the Muslim population in Israel in recent years is 2.4 times higher than that of the Jewish population -- 3.4 per cent as opposed to 1.4 per cent," the report said, citing a record-high birth rate among Arab Muslims. … the more strictly traditional Muslim community which, it said, encourages child-bearing and child-rearing.

The Future Belongs to Islam

The Muslim world has youth, numbers and global ambitions. The West is growing old and enfeebled, and lacks the will to rebuff those who would supplant it. It's the end of the world as we've known it. An excerpt from 'America Alone'.

We're the ones who will change you," the Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper Dagbladet in 2006. "

– change through outbreeding.

Newsgroup file

‘ We will never be deported! We’ll outbreed, outnumber, outvote – then deport you.’

Usama Bin Laden. 17th of 53 children in his family. Last known to have 4 legal wives, numerous ex-wives and 19 children. Being allowed, and even encouraged by the radical Imams in the radicalized Muslim religion, to have multiple wives leads to many, many children.

A lot of people understand demographics and have used breeding as a weapon of war. Moses did. The Catholic Church does this. Hitler did. Radical Islam does. Some Hindu religious leaders do. Israel does. etc etc So the question is this. It is basic. Outbreeding is still being called for. Does more people = more power? Does it work?

[edit on 2/5/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 03:37 PM by FlyersFan

A little more info ...

Information on the Nazi Lebensborn

I saw a show on this on the History Channel and it was absoultely amazing. It was a great example of a war machine using attempted outbreeding.

The German SS stole 12,000 children - blonde hair blue eyes - and brought them to their Lebensborn orphanages in an effort to boost the Aryan race.

Also 'Pureblood' Aryan Nazi soldiers were strongly encouraged to get their 'pureblood' paperwork together and to go out and procreate as much as possible with 'pureblood' women who also either looked Aryan or had their bloodline paperwork in order.

There were Lebensborn orphanages set up so that 'pureblood' Aryan women could come in and give birth to their illegitimate Aryan children that they had by 'pureblood' Aryan soldiers. This was strongly encouraged for German women to do. They'd be given free health care and then dump the children in these special orphanages and never look back.

Both the women and men who gave birth and dumped the children in the Lebensborn thought it was an honor to do this. It was something they 'sacrificed' for their country.

The survivors of the Lebensborn orphanages to this veyr day still suffer from what happened. Some had tracked down the biological parents who dumped them in the orphanages - only to have those parents deny any participation in the program. They were in full denial.

Hitler lost WWII, but the effects of his outbreeding program had far reaching consequences.

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 03:49 PM by heyo

Well it's pretty convincing that it does work, or at least the ptb think they do. It seems this method is perfect for using democracy against itself. There was a movie in a thread a couple weeks ago about how America was originallya republic, but is slowly becoming more democratic. Using the info in that thread and this one paints kind of a clear picture. I don't remember the headline of the thread or else i'd post it. Great presentation op.

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 03:52 PM by masonwatcher

Kind of explains why Israel targets Palestinian children

[Image removed]

The rest of the stuff regarding Muslims and other countries is just Islam baiting guff. Breeding is only an obsession for fascists. Algeria and France was one country at one time, hence the term 'pied noir'. These pied noir Algerians were French colonialists who endeavoured to out populate the indigenous population who were not as many as the entire French population in both France and Algeria.

Unlike Israel, Algeria was not subjected to ethnic cleansing therefore your entire premise of Muslims/Palestinians using these tactics in occupied Palestine is a figment of a fevered zionist imagination.

I took the image off since it might be too disturbing.

[edit on 042828p://pm2844 by masonwatcher]

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 03:58 PM by heyo

Yes you're probably right about that, except showing that the french did it doesn't prove that islam is not doing it.

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 04:06 PM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by masonwatcher
The rest of the stuff regarding Muslims and other countries is just Islam baiting guff. Breeding is only an obsession for fascists. ... your entire premise of Muslims/Palestinians using these tactics in occupied Palestine is a figment of a fevered zionist imagination.

So you think that the radical Muslims are incapable of facism? You think that they wouldn't use the time honored war tactic of 'outbreeding the enemy'? You still believe that even after I gave direct quotes from Arafat and Khomeini and Imams themselves?

Well ... I hope you enjoy being myopic but the facts speak for themselves. Lots of poeple - from the Jews to the Muslims to the Hindus to the Protestants to the Catholics to the Nazis - in old times and modern times - have used outbreeding as a war tactic.

The only real question is this - does it work. Does it really create more numbers and does that mean the higher numbers of people 'win' the wars? Or does it mean those groups implode under the weight of all those uneducated and poorly cared for people.

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 04:06 PM by masonwatcher

Originally posted by heyo
Yes you're probably right about that, except showing that the french did it doesn't prove that islam is not doing it.

Which 'Islam' people? The Arabs, Africans, white, Chinese? And who is coordinating this nefarious deed of making babies?

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 05:47 PM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by masonwatcher
And who is coordinating this nefarious deed of making babies?

You specifically asked about Islam ... this was already answered ....
Radical muslims AND their holy books. Re-read the opening post.

Yasser Arafat said that the most important weapon of the Arabs is the “Arab womb,” the motto being: “If we can’t defeat them in war, let’s outbreed them.”

Book 11, Number 2045: Narrated Ma'qil ibn Yasar:
A man came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: I have found a woman of rank and beauty, but she does not give birth to children. Should I marry her? He said: No. He came again to him, but he prohibited him. He came to him third time, and he (the Prophet) said: Marry women who are loving and very prolific, for I shall outnumber the peoples by you.

Is family planning allowed in Islam

The prophet (saw) not only encouraged marriage but he encouraged marrying those women who are child-bearing. He stated: "marry the loving, child-bearing women for I shall have the largest numbers among the prophets on the day of Resurrection." (Recorded by Ahmad and ibn Hibban.)

"Just look at the development within Europe," said a triumphant Norwegian imam a few months ago, "where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children. Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."

AND SO ON .. AND SO ON ... AND SO ON ....

Radical Islam has it's out-breed the enemy flag bearers.
See the opening post for more information on this.

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 05:55 PM by Aeons

Of course it works.

Which is one of the reasons why the people trumpetting the No-Breeding tune don't make sense.

Your power is your vote. And frankly, there are always going to be more of "us" than the non-breeders. Duh. More votes, more power. Pretty simple.

Culturally, do I want my great grandchildren to be absorbed by a group that thinks that women are soulless chattle upon which to sow seeds and lock in the house? NO. I don't. Therefore, breeding is tied to cultural memes. And frankly, I'm very fond of the Human Rights and Female Equality one. I'm not so interested in my descendents being treated like chattel.

(you missed something that Muslim men are being told in some areas - find a nice local girl. Not pretty, a bit chubby, and get your children on her. We want local presense and it is up to you.)

[edit on 2009/2/5 by Aeons]

reply posted on 5-2-2009 @ 08:53 PM by TrueAmerican

FF S&F for you hun. This is really great work!

Back when dying with honor on the battlefield facing your enemy up close really was a determining factor, I think your premise may have had real teeth. After all, sheer numbers played a real part in winning wars. Unfortunately as you know all that changed to a degree with the advent of modern weaponry and tactics. But your premise still does have some merit.

At current growth rates, in 100 years the world may look quite different. The Muslim population is rising so rapidly, there is bound to be, just by sheer percentage, an increased proportion of Muslims that will blend with other populations. Some of those are going to end up in high places. Which of course will affect government, policy, corporate decisions, religious tolerance, and other things to a degree. But in today's day and age, that might also bring about more peace!

Would you agree that Christians generally are more tolerant today of Muslims than Muslims are of Christians? I am not speaking of radical extremists. Those exist on both sides. I am talking in general. Before I continue, just wanted to know how you felt about that.

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 05:13 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Would you agree that Christians generally are more tolerant today of Muslims than Muslims are of Christians? ... Before I continue, just wanted to know how you felt about that.

Definately. Generally speaking. The radical Christian elements aren't flying planes into the buildings of nonradical Muslims.

You mentioned different times and i agree with that as well. Back in the old days of Moses and the old days of the Catholic empire, the push for babies would mean more soldiers. More soldiers would mean a better chance of winning.

Today technology plays a big part in winning a war. So does education. 100 well educated people can come up with weapons that can kill a million soldiers on the other side. And we know that higher density populations many times means lower medical care and lower education.

So that's why I ask the question. Does outbreeding the enemy work? In the old days - yes. But today does it still hold true?

I'm thinking somewhat. WIth higher numbers of people you have a higher chance to get the genius' that can come up with the battlefield technology. Higher population numbers still means more soldiers and also more of a chance to win a war without shots being fired - win through integration with the enemy civilian population and taking over through political channels. But I'm thinking education is the key to winning a war.

Kinda funny side note - the more educated people become, the less children they have. So the ignorant end up outbreeding the smart. Then the cycle takes over again once the ignorant are in charge and they start to get educated.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 11:35 AM by marg6043

Fantastic research work FlyersFan and I too remember Arafat claiming “Arab womb,” the motto being: “If we can’t defeat them in war, let’s outbreed them.”

It was topic in many ATS threads for a while.

It is very true, taking into consideration that a generation span is 25 years and depending how long you live you can pretty much witness a few in your live time.

My grandmother is in her eighties, she has witness almost 3 full generations so far and my daughters one is just coming to full term.

So it doesn't take much time to overpopulate a region if that is the desirable outcome.

Just patience.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by marg6043]

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 11:55 AM by centurion1211

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Kind of explains why Israel targets Palestinian children

[edit on 042828p://pm2844 by masonwatcher]

And I guess why the muslims target Israeli civilians. Every thinking person knows that muslims using children as human shields will unfortunately result in some of them becoming casualties.

But back to the topic.

All it takes to implement the breeding strategy is the patience to not need to win right now. I think the hispanics are doing the same thing in the SW U.S> right now, as well.

Starred and flagged.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by centurion1211]

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 12:39 PM by marg6043

reply to post by centurion1211

Only in the south west? I will go a littler farther, here in my neck of the woods when I moved here 12 years ago they were scarce few and scattered around, now they are everywhere, their littler litter of babies running all over the place because they do not stop with two or three they have plenty.

Now when it comes to some other races is that many are allow more than one wife, the bring their harems with them when they move around.

Having 6 or more wives all popping children every 9 months, is actually incredible, look at some of the Mormon groups in the US.

Can somebody put a plug to this people

(just a joke)

[edit on 6-2-2009 by marg6043]

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 02:33 PM by FlyersFan

reply to post by marg6043

It's kind of a funny cycle .... ON THE AVERAGE - Educated people have less children. Uneducated people have more children. The uneducated overpopulate and take over. Then they get educated and have less children which means that some other less educated group then overpopulates and takes over. Then the cycle continues.

CDC Mothers Education Level Affects Birth Rates

Demographic Research

WIKI Fertility Rates

BBC - Birthrates harm poverty goals

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 06:03 PM by dooper

I don't know about the outbreeding thing. The thing is, one either outbreeds or outkills. The Western cultures have been really unmatched in the second option.

Personally, I was always hoping sex could become an Olympic event, as the US could absolutely dominate!

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 07:54 PM by budski

reply to post by dooper

Except in the gene pool category.

reply posted on 7-2-2009 @ 07:35 AM by FlyersFan

reply to post by budski

In reference to that gene pool comment ...

Considering the behavior of the entire planet (taken as a whole), and considering the inability for people to learn from the past, and considering the recent adoration that people have placed upon certain elected politicians ... I can't help but wonder how the heck humanity has survived this long.

If Darwin was right then we should have been destroyed a long time ago.

reply posted on 7-2-2009 @ 08:40 AM by budski

Something I remember reading about quite some time ago, was a concern raised about the less well educated having more kids than "smarter" people, resulting in a dumbing down of the population as a whole, and creating a two tier society, with the upper tier slowly becoming scarcer.

Of course, dumb parents don't equal dumb children, but it was an interesting piece nonetheless.

As far as outbreeding a percieved enemy goes, I believe it has been very successfull in the past - especially for christianity.

Whether it would work today is open to question, but there is certainly a possibility that it could.

reply posted on 7-2-2009 @ 08:56 AM by AmericanDaughter

To me, it seems like the mexican invasion of America has much to do with breeding! It's working too! Everywhere I look is a parade of Anchors with a preggers mom leading the pack.
Americans on the other hand are having less children by 'choice' or from listening to propaganda saying it's eco friendly Or we just can't afford more kids. The illegals don't have that problem though because of the wonderful services American Citizens Provide and Pay For .....

[edit on 7-2-2009 by AmericanDaughter]

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