Don't Point Your Religious Finger At Me !

Originally posted by mastermind77

Originally posted by heyo
You're just another cocky guy with some newfound info.Let me tell you, your arguments are brutal. Like for example you think that since the bible is 6000 years old that must be how old God is lol. I have the 2008 encyclopedia set...guess that means the info in it is only 1 yr old! Also, you forget that we don't know what information or whatever fallen angels shared with man when they were cast down. Let me put it this way i've answered a lot tougher questions in my own mind about my faith and the answers only come with patience.
There are people out there who think the joke is on YOU.

ok smartypants, prove your point then dont just mock and sit there smirking in some ignorant stand on the issue.

I agree the with poster, I think the religious and the anti religious are all crazy, and only intellectual seekers who want truth will look past the emotional and reactive presets of that paradigm to find truth.

Religions example their failure through controls and wars and taxes and "the way it is" thinking. I for one would be glad to be considered apostate and insulting to a man or woman with a stern face implying they are authority over me. Theres a reason Americas Constitution was NOT inspired by God, but rather first Liberty, Which we assume GOd gave us due to the NATURE or the earth, which truly in the end is caged and restrained in order to stay alive. So my point is is that FREEDOM IS A FALACY. And people who impose the lie mental templates, whatever it be from religion to secret society to cult to statism, its all falsity and delusionaal wealth trying to maintain delusional wealth. The field workers who promote peace and feed the poor and risk their lives, they are the only ones I would remotely call Godly. TO me volunteerism is a false start towards what should be already, rational societal mode.

Sorry about leaving right away bad form sometimes i come on here before work then i don't realize how much time has passed (yes, I know i remain logged on).

Yes I agree religion has been manipulated.
I'm not american so it's not like i care what america was founded on.
I don't have a problem seriving those higher than me in any way i'm required. And what exactly is it God is apparently freeing me from, in you opinion (well, nothing, yes, but if you did believe what would it be?). you believe since America wasn't inspired by God there is no freedom in God? That's classic American gall. I honstly believe you must have written that by accident.
I agree with the rest of your post relgion is being used to an extent to manipulate. But in which way? By whom? This is where I'm at right now.

Originally posted by heretic today gone tomorr

Originally posted by heyo
You're just another cocky guy with some newfound info.Let me tell you, your arguments are brutal. Like for example you think that since the bible is 6000 years old that must be how old God is lol. I have the 2008 encyclopedia set...guess that means the info in it is only 1 yr old! Also, you forget that we don't know what information or whatever fallen angels shared with man when they were cast down. Let me put it this way i've answered a lot tougher questions in my own mind about my faith and the answers only come with patience.
There are people out there who think the joke is on YOU.

I admit I'm a "cocky guy" like most other men in the world i guess,
but not because of what iv said or the way worded my post,,
When it comes down to talking about this its all about the facts because i am "trying" to reach people and help steer them toward true unity and real truth and pure clarity and real freedom, As unified and truthful and clear and free as is HUMANLY possible,, somthing most religious orders would forbid and burn/hang me for.
The Encyclopedia set you have is like the bible in the way that whats written in it is updated and modified every so often,
but UNLIKE the bible, your encyclopedia is completly full to the brim with facts.
I ask you to tell me the date of birth of God,, Yours or anyone else's.
I will still prove him false or even that he created earth and the "heavens".

And the angels you say came down, well theres way more chance that they were extraterrestrial than being angels of god or angels expelled by god.

I can tell you of a Japanese "myth/legend" that says GOD was born out of the chaotic earth, even if its meant as earth in its early formation it would still prove him having nothing to do with creating it or the heavens.


[edit on 4/2/2009 by heretic today gone tomorr]

Again, I was making a point that a books age is no indication of the information or "memes" contained therein.
Also, sorry for sounding like a jerk.

reply to post by Ichabod
Ichabod, I believe you missed my point or I didn't explain it very well. At any rate you have judged me wrongly. Yours is the finger pointing I was alluding to.

You know nothing about me yet you question my faith and measure my christainity.

I do not practice the doctrine of seperation. I worship with small groups in homes, backrooms of restaurants, barns and many times in a clearing in the woods.

I am what is defined as a part time missionary. I had a business untill I retired in Jan. 2007. Several times a year I would join mission groups and travel to impoverished countries to work with dentist, doctors and othjer groups. I did this at my cost and asked for no donations.

One of our biggest mission fields is right here in our own country. But according to Matthew ( Matt: 28 V.18-20) we are to make desiples in all the nations of the world.

Ichabod my faith has feet. I don't preach to the choir. I take my faith to the street. I believe in the trinity which is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus died for my sins as well as for yours.

I also work with the Red Cross and other relief organizations. I work with battered women and children and I also work with AA and NA as I am a former addict.

There is a tremendous need for work in Mexico by the people of God. It is not new territory for me as I've worked there many times. There are multitudes of people in Mexico that have never heard the about the birth of our sweet Jesus.

Please pray for the groups that are planning to enter Mexico this year. It is more dangerouse than it has been in many years.

If you would like to volunteer to give a few weeks of your life for caring for the sick and unchurched there are many organizations you can join. I am sure the pastor of your church can help you find them.

I have never wanted to open my life up here on ATS but I felt it necessary in your case.

PLEASE be careful with that finger pointing. How can you fairly judge a book unless you've read it?

May God bless and keep you in his hands.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by dizziedame]

reply to post by heyo

reply to post by heyo
Theres no apology needed, but thank you anyway.

I'm not the kind of person to get offended or upset easily.
and as im sure you can see from my posts id rather everyone speak their minds NO MATTER what they have to say,
This is one of the true meanings of freedom after all so dont ever hold anything back.



[edit on 5/2/2009 by heretic today gone tomorr]

reply to post by moocowman


First of all, what do mean you "don't hate Christians, just what they do"
Careful, that is a very volatile statement.

Second of all, ALIENS???? SERIOUSLY????I am much more open to a spirit guide or a deceased loved one that helped me than some alien. You weren't there that night so you cannot even begin to understand the transformation I went through overnight. To call these a series of coincidences is what I would call "quite a stretch"
I did not and would never compare what I was going through to suffering children. That's got to be the worst analogy I have ever heard. I was merely referring to the miracle I experienced. Perhaps I had or have a purpose to fulfill. I do not in anyway feel I am more important than any other person in this world, but who are you to say that my life is not worthy of saving.
The suffering of children that you mentioned is mainly the result of the evils of man, not GOD. People allow these children to suffer.
I know there is something beyond this life and I believe that everything, I mean EVERYTHING happens for a reason. There is a much bigger picture here than we mortals could ever understand.

reply to post by dizziedame


Sounds like you're doing a lot of good work. My finger pointing on doctrines is perfectly acceptable. We're called to do it and we're called to hold each other accountable. Obviously, by your statements you have others to help hold you accountable.

The doctrine of separation is a real doctrine, found in the bible. If you aren't practicing it, then you should. Very simply, it means the boat is in the water but the water isn't in the boat. It's very easy to get it the other way around especially in ministries to foreign countries. For instance, by participating in the epidemic of graft and dishonesty in countries just to get something done. It's easy in the U.S. by participating in ecumenical church counsels and becoming unequally yoked - all for a good cause of course.

I hope that in your travels you haven't compromised the many doctrines of faith. I've run into many Christians who feel that it's perfectly acceptable to behave like pagans for the good of Christ. But what good is this? Does Christ need something more than the gospel?

reply to post by heyo


Obviously did miss your point dude, there you go sorry and all that,

Never the less it's fair to say that the bibles whatever type cannot be a reliable source of anything other than their their own unreliability.

reply to post by sickofitall2012

First of all, what do mean you "don't hate Christians, just what they do" Careful, that is a very volatile statement.

I think that’s a pretty clear statement, you know, just like god doesn’t hate homosexuals he just hates what they do.

“Second of all, ALIENS???? SERIOUSLY????I am much more open to a spirit guide or a deceased loved one that helped me than some alien. “

Regardless of how open you are , there is no more evidence of guardian angels, deceased loved ones or fairies than there is aliens, each are as equally probable as the other. If it could be one then it equally could be the other

“You weren't there that night so you cannot even begin to understand the transformation I went through ["”

How can you know that I wasn’t there ? How can you know that I’m not an angel. You cannot prove that angels exist, as much as you cannot disprove that I am an angel

I did not and would never compare what I was going through to suffering children. That's got to be the worst analogy I have ever heard. I was merely referring to the miracle I experienced.

Is one type of suffering greater than another ? How do you measure this? I did not attempt to compare your suffering by degrees, suffering is suffering as far as I am concerned. I could no understand why your jesusgod would choose to intervene and end your suffering, which was self induced but not that of countless babies who have been given no choice in the matter.

“ Perhaps I had or have a purpose to fulfill. I do not in anyway feel I am more important than any other person in this world, but who are you to say that my life is not worthy of saving.”

I have not implied your life was not worthy of saving, I asked why the jesusgod chose to value your life above the countless dying babies

“The suffering of children that you mentioned is mainly the result of the evils of man, not GOD. People allow these children to suffer. “

“As I recall I mentioned no cause of the suffering, although logic would dictate that if god is the first cause of everything then god caused the suffering. Nevertheless, this god has the choice of ending the suffering but chooses not to”

“I know there is something beyond this life and I believe that everything, I mean EVERYTHING happens for a reason. There is a much bigger picture here than we mortals could ever understand.

”

You initially presented your assumption as evidence of god, when in fact you only have a human experience which is not uncommon and certainly not evidence of anything

reply to post by Ichabod

Review the 7 things that Jesus is said to have uttered on the cross. I think you'll see the sacrifice he made. Of course, we don't have his perspective so it remains something that we can never experience here. You can question it if you like, but it is said that he said these things while being nailed to and dying on a cross. To manage 7 or 8 doctrinal gems while gasping for your breath is pretty impressive.

Bearing in mind that the crucifixion story is but hearsay and is extremely problematic, I will have a look at what the aleged jesus is alleged to have said.

Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:34).

Clearly this statement makes it clear that Jesus does not have the authority to forgive, forgiveness is required from a greater authority which one would assume to be the creator.
Who the request is being made for cannot be known as it was not stated and can only be guessed at, again hearsay evidence.

The fact that jesus is asking a greater authority to forgive makes it quite clear that he is not the prime cause,the creator of all that is.
As jesus is informing someone else (god) that "they" know not what they do, implies that god does not see the big picture and is unaware of something jesus is aware of.
Clearly jesus and god are two completely different entities who are not fully aware of each others possible actions.

As jesus was alleged to have been aware of his crucifixion and also to have been a god who ha planned this scenario, should he not have gone through with it he would still be walking around today perhaps.
His followers who were jews, did not want him to die, as they believed he was the heir to the throne and the priesthood. They had nothing to gain by his demise and everything to lose which ultimately they did, so there was no sacrifice in this case.

The pharisees and romans who plotted and executed jesus did want him to die, but this was part of the plan that jesus designed so they had no option but to kill him,. If they had not then the plan wouldn't work, so there was obviously no sacrifice made for them as their actions were preordained.

This now leaves us with who could a sacrifice have been made for ? Okey let's say me and go with that for a minute.

Jesus sacrificed himself for me by dying on a cross. Well pardon me but I wasn't there so it had nothing to do with me, he came back to life 3 days later so there was no sacrifice made. It could be argued that he suffered horrendously , but what's that got to do with me, if I was there I would have tried to prevent it. But there again I couldn't prevent it because it was his idea to begin with.

Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).

Well this is no evidence of anything and means different things to different people.

Woman, behold your son: behold your mother (John 19:26-27)

.

Again can have a variety of meanings but again no eveidence of sacrifice

Eli Eli lama sabachthani? ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?",

Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34).
Jesus is clearly appealing to a higher authority, making it perfectly clear that he and the creator are not one and the same thing, a messiah was not yaweh.
FORSAKE: to renounce or turn away from entirely
synonyms see abandon

Clearly at some point jesus believed himself to be abandoned by god, if jesus is god then how can he foesake (abandon) himself ?

I thirst (John 19:28).

Apparently crucifixion brings on a thirst, no evidence of anything

It is finished (John 19:30). Father, into your hands I commit my spirit

Once again jesus is conversing with a higher authority who he entrusts with his spirit, jesus' spirit is quite clearly separate from any so called holy spirit.

It takes great leaps of imagination to conclude that jesus and yawhe are one and the same personality, when jesus' own words are clearly speak the opposite.

I cannot know the amount of words are possible to utter having been crucified, I would however imagine it to be different to each individual.
Given the fact that this method of execution was chosen because of the length of time it took to die, a week or so. It would seem that jesus' was very lucky that his suffering was reduced and far less than the average crucifixion as he managed to expire in about 6 hours or so allegedly.





[edit on 5-2-2009 by moocowman]

hashemsfilms.com...

The video's at this site offer way more than just views from any religion,
they show a connection of all things from religion to the Illuminati to todays problems and going ons. Which is why i post the link.

No I'm not Muslim or even religious, in fact id say go with the evolution theory and ditch religion, it is the root of most evils. (in my view),
No matter what religion you follow its all mans lies and not the words of god, How can it be the words of god when none exist!

But i have watched some of these videos, and i have to say theres a lot of things to take note of!

If you have noticed then you will know that these videos were removed from the likes of google vid and you tube, i dont know the exact reason or reasons why but people do not like the idea of being censored when we are told its a "free world".