Mig 29 better than F-16 ?

Originally posted by grunt2
the true kill ratio (objetive analisis without propaganda) was 3-5 to 1,america wining, thats because you count korean pilots, but the honchos performance was the best in the war, even more if you consider the little cuantify of russians pilots asignated to the war

[edit on 21-1-2005 by grunt2]

Maybe if the Russians had come out in the open and said they were piloting airplanes, or even better let US know which airplanes they were flying we could give numbers just against them. Of course they didn't do that.

3/5 -1 still looks pretty good when the Mig was probably the best airplane in the theater.

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Starwars51]

I still find it hard to beliee that CCCP pilots flew in korea..can anybody give me links supporting such claims?..I'd also like stats like numbers, ranks, etc etc..this is quite incredible..

It has always been accepted fact as far as I know. I read of it in aviation books when I was a child and so it seems nothing unusual to me. There is also a certain logic to it if you think of the aviation world in 1950. The Indian and Israeli air forces were flying Spitfires and the Sabre and MiG 15 were the Raptor and Berkut of their day. It seems perfectly logical to me that Russian pilots would be flying these aircraft.

Russian documents have shown that their pilots were in Korea. I don't see how anyone could really not believe it at this point.

aeroweb.lucia.it...

^^No no I meant flying for other airforces and in wars not involving the USSR itself..and that too covertly , not openly like the british did in Gulf...
Though I do know about pakis flying for egypt and syria in the israel wars and shooting down quite a few israeli jets, just shows that the israelis might not be as good as they were made out to be, and maybe they have a "target rich environment" (topgun) around them

www.analisidifesa.it...

Yes thats what I weas referring to daedalus, Russian pilots flying Korean marked MiG 15's in combat.

You have voted waynos for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

You get my vote for being such a unbiased investigator

1 more vote left...

The info was helpful and I am now :enlightened: wrt CCCP fighter pilots escapades' post WWII..
Never knew they were merc pilots too, though they did train Iraqis in the Iran -Iraq war..I was there

btw whats all this about voting and all never really got that....

[edit on 22-1-2005 by Daedalus3]

Well, you got my last vote, it's for this ATS award, it gets you extra ATS points too!

Disturbed Deliverer,

that 14-1 ratio is propaganda the real kill ratio was 3-5/1 -3/5 depends of the analisis-, the russians pilots in their migs15 performed much better than americans in f86 against honchos, in the "honcho period", the russians downed more than 30 f86 (confirmed downs) -i dont counted all-, but the americans only downed 4-6 honchos,there some reasons like better russian tactics,plane,etc...,reaching that even with relative few pilots in the theatre, almost all planes destroyed were f86-f84 not p51, but also the north koreans flew yaks...,about that "target rich environment" concept, well we must admit the numerical superiority of NU fighters in the war

we must consider other situations, like some US denied f86 downed, confirmed later with mig15s cameras, and that the first ace in the war was in fact russian

[edit on 23-1-2005 by grunt2]

That's a lot of bull. 100 Sabres were lost in the war. Nearly no Mig-15's were lost before the Sabres entered the war. By all counts there was a loppsided kill ratio for the Sabre. If the Russian pilots really had the upper hand, hundreds of them wouldn't have died, and many more wouldn't have had to eject.

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Disturbed Deliverer]

The Sabre was totally inferior to the Mig, it's just the Mig outweighted it in terms of things it could do better. The Sabre could do some things better than the Mig as well.

Chuck Yeager confirmed this after the North K. pilot defected, and he got to fly the Mig. He found the plane wasn't as super "elite" as the American pilots had made out, but it was superior to the Sabre.

However, the American pilots had superior training to the Russian and N.K. pilots which was why the Sabres killed more Migs.

Whups, the Sabre wasn't "totally" inferior to the Mig (makes my above post contradict itself), but in was outweighed by the Mig in terms of capabilities.

hell, the sabres aces period start just after the russians had retired from korea, now how many north korean-chineses aces (confirmed) are??, the sabres were in service in the honchos period, anybody knows that, also i was well clear after analisis that the USAF hide some loses.

If the Russian pilots really had the upper hand, hundreds of them wouldn't have died, and many more wouldn't have had to eject.

patriotic ignorance (btw im not russian or commie, im only try to be objetive)

However, the American pilots had superior training to the Russian and N.K. pilots which was why the Sabres killed more Migs.

that isnt true, the russians flown in very organizated formations, instead the americans used that "cowboy" philosophy, that tactic never work good against honchos, and the mig15 was a better plane, yes with some problems at max speed, but in combat is more important the combat speed, only to think about, the best point of the f86 was the dive speed, but that propiety only is good in attack planes, it reveals the sustentation problems of the sabre, that combined with the migs better climb and operative altitude give to the mig an definitive advantage

[edit on 24-1-2005 by grunt2]

[edit on 24-1-2005 by grunt2]

patriotic ignorance (btw im not russian or commie, im only try to be objetive)

Bull. This is from Russian documents, not American.

that isnt true, the russians flown in very organizated formations, instead the americans used that "cowboy" philosophy, that tactic never work good against honchos, and the mig15 was a better plane, yes with some problems at max speed, but in combat is more important the combat speed, only to think about, the best point of the f86 was the dive speed, but that propiety only is good in attack planes, it reveals the sustentation problems of the sabre, that combined with the migs better climb and operative altitude give to the mig an definitive advantage

Russian pilots themsleves stated that Americans were very good, but had inferior planes (in regards to the P-51).

You're not unbiased just because you're not Russian or American. There's plenty of anti-Americanism all across Europe. It's been that way for decades. America has always been looked down upon by Europe.

Bull. This is from Russian documents, not American.
Russian pilots themsleves stated that Americans were very good, but had inferior planes (in regards to the P-51).

etc.....

in fact the investigation come from both american and russian documents, russians "patriots" also claim an overall rate kill ratio of 4-1, korean wining like the american "patriots" 10/14-1 kill rate (there other xtremists with 20-1!!!!!:lol

Once again - how did hundreds of Russian pilots die?

They weren't shot down by P-51's. The only way it could have happened was against Sabres, and only 100 Sabres were lost. You can do the math yourself. America had the advantage on the Russians.

And if we didn't, we wouldn't have had air superiority...

Once again - how did hundreds of Russian pilots die?

, hundreds russian pilots???, what your drinking????, maybe you are confusing WW2 with korean war, or maybe korean with russian pilots.


[edit on 24-1-2005 by grunt2]

In the Korean War the Soviet Union deployed the 64th air defense corps, with over 300 fighter jets, over 400 pilots, 2 artillery air defense divisions, and ground staff -- up to 40,000 in all. The 64th was given the task of challenging US air supremacy over the Korean peninsula, but pilots were ordered to fight only defensive battles and not to fly near the front line. From 1950 to 1953 the 64th lost 335 fighter jets and 125 pilots. Overall, Russian casualties in the Korean War are estimated at 316 dead. The US lost some 55,000 men and 1,182 airplanes.

www.bu.edu...

335 Mig-15's lost to 100 Sabres according to the Russians themselves.