Graffiti girl jailed for first offence

reply to post by atlasastro


OK so now you've resorted to personal attacks. I'm outa here, intelligent conversation has flown out the window.

Have fun

reply to post by atlasastro


Well that was quite a tirade.

I certainly empathize with some of your comments, and the suffering of business owners and social organisations that feel infringed by the graffiti.

The debate that I am engaged in is one of a 3 month jail term for writing a name on a wall, not about rapists and murderers re-offending or becoming institutionalised. There's really no need to polarize the argument to that extent.

I see the idea of handing out a 3 month jail sentence to an 18 year old for writing on a wall an abysmal failure of a state social and legal system.

I don't believe there are no better ways to deal with this - lots of them.

This is similar to the parent that whacks their child around the head for simply being a child and acting on immature instinctive human mechanisms, rather than taking the time to understand the causes and symptoms at play.

It is lazy, violent and in-humane and IMO will only serve to create more of the same problem or even greater issues.

You can call me an idealist and utopian, yes, I'll own those tags.

I believe humans have the capacity to be humane, compassionate and live from love and acceptance, whilst still creating and 'enforcing' boundaries for polite and functional society.

This capacity is obviously under-developed, but we need to be able to see our tendancy towards violent and manipulative control as the failure it is, not as some acceptable solution to problems we currently lack the creativity, will or desire to deal with compassionately.

Originally posted by atlasastro
We are not in a police state BTW, just incase you think we are.
A police state enforces social, political and economical repression and control.

Social control = sending a teenager who wrote her name on a wall to jail for three months.

Way to contradict yourself.

Originally posted by atlasastro
You know what is cheap, here do the Math. You have a graffiti problem that costs Hundreds of millions of dollars, a police system that receives over 100k complaints in one year about graffiti and vandalism.

Let's do the maths.

Costs for my solution = $200 + court case fees.

Costs for the solution that you support = court case fees + appeal court fees + costs of time spent in jail before bail + potential costs of keeping her in jail for the full three months.

The maths clearly shows that my solution is far more cost effective.

Way to contradict yourself.

Originally posted by atlasastro
If you want a simple solution, I mean a dead easy one, one that I knew when I was 10, why not this one. Do not damage or deface someone elses property.

That's not the simple solution, that's the simpleton's solution. Guess what, atlasastro, even if the death penalty was applied to graffitti, teenagers will still be teenagers and they will STILL draw graffitti.

Increasing penalties so that they are disproportionate to the crime will not stop the crime.

Way to contradict yourself.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by tezzajw]

We use to carve our names in trees....go down to the bay and skinny dip...no cops....no crap! It seems there are no kids today...what have we lost. I have seen a lot of graffiti in my time...but what kills me is that some buisness and homes and the like...use graffiti. How far do we have to go with this nonsense...

reply to post by tezzajw


I'm usually quite a compassionate person, but in this instance I take a zero tolerance stance. As a property owner, having some disrespectful youth come and tag your property is like a slap in the face.

It is ugly and costly to remove.

Yes, crime laws are not fair, but I believe we need to take an overall zero tolerance on all crimes, especially those involving violence, hooning and graffiti.

Just take a look at what a youth in Singapore would be faced with if charged with graffiti.

Just my 2c worth.

Dobbie

reply to post by tezzajw


Another judge has given the girl bail while the original decision is appealed(she wont spend a day in jail)..Also what the post did not mention was that the girls tag was all over the city in many different locations so its not like its the first time she has done it,just the first time she got caught,what a pack of fools though doing it right in front of a cctv camera

reply to post by tezzajw


Thank God...Another "criminal" is off our streets and we can feel a bit safer..Between Cops thinking they are the Law and we don't count..and the Criminal Courts acting like they haven't ever read a Law Book..(we already know they have never read The Constitution) and a Congress that is either drug addicted and incompetent or worse..doing this insane bail out for Wall Street Buds...and Obama trying to scare us into his way of going business..Chill your jets Barry...We will get to it in due time.impeachment plans come first...and mow this police and court acting like they are really Barney Fifes..It's a wonder we can think at all

They should just make her pay cleanup costs for removing all of the graffiti (even the ones she did not get caught for but were hers as mentioned in the post above). That would make her regret it as she'd end up losing a lot of money.

If the law (police, etc.) spent as much time catching murderers and rapists as they did graffiti artists the world might be a safer place. That girls wasn't endangering lives; she was just making ugly marks on private property. Jail time is unnecessary and I think losing all of her money would still be a huge hit.
We all know kids love money and materialism so lets punish them in the way that hurts without exposing them to harm in jail.

PLUS she wouldn't be able to afford any more graffiti materials without money. If this leads her to steal that might be an act that could put people in danger if she goes extreme and THEN it's jail time for her.

Originally posted by DieterRabbit
They should just make her pay cleanup costs for removing all of the graffiti (even the ones she did not get caught for but were hers as mentioned in the post above).

I agree.

However, there's one minor point that's possibly being overlooked... did she write all of the other tags? Perhaps someone copied her?

That premise about being innocent until proven guilty still applies. When people start to forget that, we're in serious trouble.

If she did write more tags, then she's got a lot of cleaning to do. No jail time, just cleaning and paying for the damage.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by tezzajw]

reply to post by tezzajw

This is an issue of race. Look at the face of a girl who will always be treated as a second class citizen in her own country. Australia has a history of caging its indigenous people.

reply to post by tezzajw


When somebody has " no criminal history " it just means they haven't been caught . The fact she gave herself up for many previous crimes ( tags )goes to show she is a repeat offender . And as for the youths she was with .... they might have a lot to do with the imposition of a custodial sentence.....

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by tezzajw

 

Another judge has given the girl bail while the original decision is appealed(she wont spend a day in jail)..Also what the post did not mention was that the girls tag was all over the city in many different locations so its not like its the first time she has done it,just the first time she got caught,what a pack of fools though doing it right in front of a cctv camera

Well well well...the whole story comes out then. She apparently has done this more than once eh? Well perhaps THAT is why the 3 month sentance.

Also, as you pointed out, and as I have countless times as well as others have pointed out, this gal will either be bonded out during appeal and NOT spend a single day in jail, or have a reduced sentance.

With the evidence of the videos catching her tagging walls with her name, well that pretty much nails the coffin shut as to why she got the 3 months.
It also might have an impact on the appeal. But she can still be out on bond while the appeal process goes on.

It will be interesting to see the results of the appeal with all that video evidence against her.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
Well well well...the whole story comes out then. She apparently has done this more than once eh? Well perhaps THAT is why the 3 month sentance.

No proof at all that she's done it more than once.

It's her first offence, RFBurns. You act like something's changed, but it hasn't.

She's been sentenced to three months in jail for writing her name on a wall.

what a shame, im thinking about how she will be, locked in the place where murders, tugs,pedo's breath the same air. The judge should have given here community service and the fine, not the time. She's 18 young, neive, surley miss guided and will have to try even harder in the future to better her life. What makes it worse that everyone who's wriiten a reply has proberly grafftied and never been caught, then out the blue 3 months for wriiting her name, thats bull! The judge should 5months for being so cruel and harsh.

reply to post by alyosha1981
I agree with the poster who said that that this is the result of a "ME" generation. Sorry, but I was taught respect for other people and their property. Would that it only cost $200 to clean it up. I've seen cases where the clean-up cost hundreds of thousands. Three months jail time is a slap on the wrist! If it were up to me she would have her thumbs surgically removed so she could never pick up another can of spray paint!

reply to post by tezzajw


Its her first offence becasue its the first time she got caught. That much is true.

But if there is video evidence that shows this gal tagging her name on walls all over Sydney..well that makes it a different situation...all together. And is most likely why that judge threw the book at her.

But she is out on bond. Her appeal is going through the processes. She will most likely not do any time, end up going around Sydney cleaing up her mess, pay a hefty fine and maybe have some probation in exchange for lighter sentance.

You cannot ignore evidence of this gal's activity before she got caught. So with that evidence, she KNEW this was wrong, she KNEW she was breaking the law even before she got caught, thus in the court's mind, has NO excuse to ignorance of that law.

Im not so sure that there is any further point here with banging the defense drum for this gal. Now that the whole story is out, clearly showing evidence that she is not as innocent as you like to claim, its time to look at the entire situation and take that into account.

First time offence only applies to her first time getting caught. That does not dismiss the evidence that shows her breaking the law previously. That very well may end up working against her appeals. And if it does..well that is the power of video evidence.

If I were you I would calm down and take a few steps back from this for awhile until the appeals process is complete. I say that because now that more evidence has come to light, it is making you look like your defending someone who has been breaking the law for quite some time, and that in itself is not gonig to help your credibility, here or there in Melbourne.

Let the process continue. Examine ALL of the evidence. All you or anyone else can do now is hope that the courts give her probation and order to clean up the messes at those locations where she was video taped tagging her name on the walls, pay a fine and think twice about doing something like that ever again.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by tezzajw
No proof at all that she's done it more than once.

As far as you know.

Originally posted by tezzajw
It's her first offence, RFBurns. You act like something's changed, but it hasn't.

I dont know about that now, something has changed. You just dont want to see it because your still stuck on this puppy love syndrome for this gal who obviously broke the law, more than once with the video evidence, and just cant seem to accept the fact that she has not spent 1 single day behind bars with that 3 month sentance..she is out on bond. That means she is not in jail. Thats pretty easy to understand I think.

Originally posted by tezzajw
She's been sentenced to three months in jail for writing her name on a wall.

My God man..your starting to sound like a broken record. Get over it already! She is out on bond, she broke the law, there is more evidence now...video evidence against her, her appeal process has started, she is out on bond..not in jail. Dont you get it yet???

As I stated before, as have many others, your NOT going to get any different results in Sydney's laws by repeating the worn out statement you have made here. Obviously her attourney has taken steps to keep her out of jail away from all those bad murders and killers that she would not have gone anywhere near to begin with for a minor offense. She is out on bond..walking the streets, going to her job or her school, and hopefully keeping her name on paper and not tagged on more walls.

Get some fresh air man..you need it!!!




Cheers!!!!

1) The video evidence is from the time she got caught, not from some other instance(s) - please read the posts more carefully, it isn't the first time in this thread you've misread and jumped to incorrect assumptions.
2) You sound as much like a broken record with your constant repeating that she will not serve this sentence, perhaps you should take your own advice to get some air

The debate is about whether a 3 month jail term is a suitable sentence for writing a name on a wall.

The cafe owner (the victim) does not, and neither do I

Whether the sentence is served or not is irrelevant, unless you want to make an argument that the law has been created with deliberate intent to NOT be enforced?!

I think suitable punishment would be cleaning every instance of the same or similar tag from anywhere in Sydney that it is found. Whether she did it or not, or can be proven either way.

3 months jail is not appropriate for writing on a wall, whether it is once or a thousand times. IMHO.

I had an 'end-terrace' house that was repeatedly targeted by youths spraying graffiti. On a weekly basis I had to go out and paint the wall, only to have graffiti appear again, sometimes the same day. People who do this sort of damage have no concept of respect for other people property. Its a case of extreme selfishness.

Once you have had this happen a few times to you come back on here and tell everyone the sentence was too harsh. I think this young girl will certainly think twice before doing this again.

In many countries, her penalty would have been much, much harsher. I highly doubt she'll serve more than a couple days of it, if even that.

For those who say that a harsh penalty won't deter others from doing it, where do you come up with that assumption? Some will still do such things, but some might think twice. It may well deter others.

One thing has certainly changed since I was a kid. Children now are coddled, and spoiled. They get angsty over the most ridiculous things. Their parents have no clue what they are doing. Sex at a young age is common, and there are way too many that have absolutely no respect for anyone or their property. And while I don't think spanking kids is the right way to go about it, I marvel in stores at how obnoxious and spoiled kids are, and the parents let them get away with it!

It's a pity that law enforcement has to try and curb what the parents could not. But maybe enough of these instances, where the penalties are harsher, they will stop such behavior. Oh.. and I doubt she was creating some 'urban art.' And no, most places that get tagged aren't saying "Oh.. thank you for the lovely art!"