Funny thought

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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Well an interesting thought just crossed my mind and I thought I'd share it to see some opinions.Let's suppose Heaven and Hell do exist just as they are described in the Bible.We all know you go to one or another after you die depending on how you behaved here on Earth.So what if you committed some serious crimes(murder,rape,..) and you want to forget all of them,leave the past behind.You decide to erase all those bad memories through some pills that induce amnesia or even better,with the help of a hypnotist that will program into your mind a new past,fake memories,etc. of you being a good guy.(and place a bomb at his house after that,no evidence to remember who you are,you're still a bad guy then
).Now you are a good man,clean history and to make things even more convincing you move to a new town,new job,change your name,everything making it look like it has always been that way and live out the rest of your life like saint.
Now the question I have is would the NEW YOU still go to Hell,having no knowledge of the sins he had committed?




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Sure you would goto Hell...everything we do and think etc. is written down in the akashic records. So you cant turn yourself into a pollyanna with hypnosis.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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First of all, Heaven is not described in the bible, and Hell isn't mentioned at all. The source of the "classic" idea of Hell are passages saying that sinners will be tossed into the fire, meaning "destroyed".

Anywho, as far as the "new you" going to Heaven or Hell, as it were, it depends on who you ask. Some say that good deeds are how we earn salvation. Others say that faith alone is the key.

Me? I'm agnostic and am interested to read some ATSers'arguments for each side.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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I don't follow any religions but here are my thoughts.

1. What if the sinner converted and became a born again Christian, didn't Jesus die for everyone's sins?

2. If the sinner was a Catholic, could they go to confession and wipe the slate clean?

3. What if they were convicted and punished for their crime on Earth, should they be punished twice.

4. If a sinner knew they were going to hell, then why not go on a rampage of raping and looting, they have noting to lose.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Looks like I've stirred things a little.Please keep in the mind the person I am talking about is a hypothetical one,in a hypothetical world where the Christian view on life is real (e.g Heaven & Hell).So please do not deviate from the subject by bringing in the views of other religions,philosophies,etc.Think that the Christian ideology is the only one you know.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Tuning Spork
 

Yes, heaven is described as a walled Jerusalem with golden streets and God is the light, I think it is metaphorical though. Also all you do in heaven is praise God day in and day out for eternity in a blissful state though.

And hell as translated in today's bibles was originally just "Sheol" which means simply grave. You go to your grave when you die, with no everlasting life.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by haiducul69
 

Well if "the new me" becomes a christian and gets her sins washed away and follows the bible as best as she can, because she has dedicated her life to Jesus and the hope of salvation, then yes, the new me would go to heaven even if I had committed horrendous crimes that I had no knowledge of previously. Other than that, nope.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by Tuning Spork
 

Yes, heaven is described as a walled Jerusalem with golden streets and God is the light, I think it is metaphorical though. Also all you do in heaven is praise God day in and day out for eternity in a blissful state though.

And hell as translated in today's bibles was originally just "Sheol" which means simply grave. You go to your grave when you die, with no everlasting life.


People think of heaven, and do not want it because they think it will be BORING. This is a false concept that the church has done nothing to dissuade.

People forget who invented fun. One of my more learned mentors suggested that in heaven we will "dip our toes into the infinite knowledge of God forever".

Basically we will glorify God through our actions, even through such mundane things as eating, or playing football, or creating an extremely big and fast rollercoaster for people to enjoy.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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The whole point is the soul, i think. Not memories. I do not know about heaven/hell, but the issue supposed to deal with soul and how "dirty" it got down here. Soul is not memories or even experiences, at least from what i understand. Memories are brain responsibility and once it dies - they are gone too. So memories or lack of them hardly influences the issue ,whether hell or heaven exist as described or something totally different.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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Your hypothetical question got me thinking!

Thinking in regards to there being a judgement when you die where you review your life, I would think that the persons desire and actions towards becoming a better person, even through hypnosis, would count towards that end. He did make a conscious desicion to change, didn't he? And having lived as a saint for the rest of his life may just have been what he needed to pass judgement!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
Basically we will glorify God through our actions, even through such mundane things as eating, or playing football, or creating an extremely big and fast rollercoaster for people to enjoy.

If that's the case, then why do we even worship Him the way we do, why don't we eat "for God" and play football "for God" here on earth instead of going to church, obeying the bible, and doing things that we would otherwise not do, "for God". I don't see the point in any of this, sheesh, you'd think that if the bible was inspired it wouldn't be this confusing.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Good question.

We are fallen beings, because of the original sin. Church exists as a place to share your faith with other believers, build community in Christ, and to worship together. Worshiping through songs and studying reafferms faith in God, and the community is there to show you that the reason we go to church is not because we are "better" or "sinless", but because we know we are the biggest sinners. Jesus did not come for the righteous, because if they are sinless as they claim, they do not need him, rather he came for the broken sinners.

We should glorify God through our actions on earth, think of church as a support group for drug addicts and prostitutes.

back to the proposed question -

you overlooked the fact of original sin, going good deeds won't save you. Being alive is only enough to send you to hell, and all are born with original sin, so even if you are a good samaritan, do good deeds all of your life, it is not enough to save you, only condemn you.

On the bright side, committing all those horrible deeds does not mean that God forsakes you, you still would have a chance at salvation, he has revealed himself, all you have to do is accept his offer.

*Edit- addressed original question*

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Bob Sholtz]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
We are fallen beings, because of the original sin.

I have never understood the theory of original sin...wait a second I never even understood what exactly sin is at all.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Original sin is when Adam and Eve defied God's mandate to not eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It was a test, because God didn't want mindless beings worshipping him because he forces them to, he wanted us to worship him because we love him.

Sin is the act of doing something that God has told you not to do. Do not murder, do not steal, etc.

God doesn't have a problem with people eating fruit, as some may surmise from genesis, it was the act of disobediance.

His mandates are for our benefit. We are really like children tbh, we complain that God (our parents) don't let us do things like putting our hands on the stove, and then when we do it while they aren't looking, (or in God's case, when he allows us to mess up) we exclaim that he isn't a fair God.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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But we are not Adam and Eve.
So we should follow all the laws of the old testament, there are hundreds and some very ridiculous ones too?



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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You did not mention in your OP about only a Christian viewpoint.
As I am not a Christian, I cannot comment any further.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
But we are not Adam and Eve.
So we should follow all the laws of the old testament, there are hundreds and some very ridiculous ones too?


Yes, but we share the blame for the sin that they brought into the world.

Many of the old testament laws were written to keep the deseases down. Such as "If anyone touches the carcass of a dead animal, they need to live away from the others for a short while" etc. But if you read the new testament, Jesus fulfilled the law because we could not. Let no man call unclean what God has made clean, or something to that effect.

If were talking about the ethics that a believer should attempt to emulate, read through the gospels, and generally the new testament.

See though, the beauty of the plan is that because Adam and Eve screwed up, we can get to know God on a much more personal level. God takes bad situations, and turns them to good.

*Edit*

I am talking from a Christian viewpoint, because that is what i am, but i believe that the OP did mention viewing things from a biblical perspective.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by Bob Sholtz]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
Yes, but we share the blame for the sin that they brought into the world.

Okay?



Many of the old testament laws were written to keep the deseases down. Such as "If anyone touches the carcass of a dead animal, they need to live away from the others for a short while" etc. But if you read the new testament, Jesus fulfilled the law because we could not. Let no man call unclean what God has made clean, or something to that effect.

So we don't follow the old testament? That's what I thought, but then there's the ten commandments and many christians hating gays and marijuana and none of that stuff is in the new testament.



See though, the beauty of the plan is that because Adam and Eve screwed up, we can get to know God on a much more personal level. God takes bad situations, and turns them to good.

At the price of the lives of those who are not christians.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by cancerian42]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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your already in hell, your just here to dig your hole deeper.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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If you are a christian, you do not hate gays. It is our job to show them the love of christ, even though they go against what we believe, and through that, try to bring them to christ.

Christians generally dislike the use of drugs because they can be harmful to those not careful, and because Jesus commanded us to follow the laws of the land, as long as they do not contradict his mandates. Since it is against the law to smoke marijuana, we respect that God has put the lawmakers above us, and nowhere in the bible does it say that marijuana is a sin, but the bible does say that overindulgence is a sin.

You are looking at it as the glass half empty. Everyone is destined for hell, it is only at his mercy that he created a way for those willing enough to accept him as God to enter heaven. In the end, it is your choice where you go, you can surrender to God, or ignore him.

I am not insinuating that the Old Testament is worthless, just that many of the laws were cultural, and meant to protect the jews from pain and suffering.





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