Greetings,

It has been nearly 12 years since the incident known as the "Phoenix Lights" was shown around the world, nearly 12 years that something has been burning inside of me. When the official explanations of the incident were released (mainly the story about Maryland ANG A-10 "Flares" story), myself and everyone else that had anything to do with the incident itself were deflated, as we knew it was false.

In short, on the night of March 13, 1997, USAF personnel stationed at both Luke AFB in Glendale and Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson were a bit scared, as something was occurring over the skies of central and southern Arizona that night, and the on-duty personnel at both bases had no idea what it was. That night, Luke AFB scrambled two F-16C's from the 56th Fighter Wing, however, these aircraft were not vectored southwest of Phoenix towards the source of the lights, but directly south towards Tucson. What is known further, is that less than 10 minutes later, a second set of F-16C's from the 56th were also scrambled and sent south-east.

Radio reports from the first flight of aircraft indicated something "odd" was occurring, however the pilots never gave any indication or specifics (in the open at any rate), as to what that was. Both flights were kept away intentionally from the lights being seen near the Estrella range. It was obvious to all with access that there were other aircraft in the area, with orders to drop flares (whether this was the Maryland ANG is unknown). It was felt that this was indeed a "deception" measure to keep curiosity focused on one space in the sky, as flares were never used that far north of the Goldwater training range (as any Luke personnel can tell you, if they were, there would be weekly "Phoenix Lights" incidents).

The next morning, wing intelligence units at both Luke and Davis-Monthan were scrambling to compile information. No one knew what had occurred the night before, but for some top officers that were summoned in during or just after the incident, there was an element of anxiety (I would not say fear, though many were disconcerted). The "hush" order took a few days to trickle down, but it was not a complete wash-up. Because of the sheer amount of public scrutiny, focusing on the "flares" video and photos allowed for a convenient and plausible explanation. Few in the mainstream press talked about the "other" sightings that night, focusing on the large triangular craft that had passed over the Phoenix metro area, the outskirts of Tucson, and over Fort Huachuca before slipping in to Mexico.

Neither did anyone mention the F-16's at all. Even though we KNOW there were numerous civilian witnesses to the scrambles (and even a few mentions here and there), NO ONE in the media asked what we all hoped they would, if this entire incident was just "flares" dropped from ANG aircraft, why then were four F-16's in the air that night, with one pair flying all the way to the Mexican border before turning back to Luke?

The incident has quietly fallen down the memory hole for most, but not for many USAF personnel close to the incident that night. There is a considerable amount of information that was never leaked, and for an incident of this magnitude, the mind boggles as to why.........

AL

[edit on 18-1-2009 by Topol-M]

Topol,

I sent you a U2U....let me know if you received it.

Thanks

Were you stationed at one of those Air Force bases? Thanks for info about the F-16's, had no idea

That's exactly what I figured happened. The flares were dropped over the city proper, and it was later proven those were indeed flares, since their disappearance coincided with the mountain range perfectly.

However.. prior to that, north of the city, people saw a huge triangular craft. And then later, in the south. I figured the flares were dropped as a diversion, to give a nice explanation about what everyone saw, although, no explanation was ever given for the other lights or crafts seen north and south of the city.

This case is imo, just as important as Roswell or any other. I wish it would get more scrutiny.

Im so glad you ar sharing your story. You brought up a few things that I havent heard before.


You seem to know alot of details about the actions that the individual military bases took. Did you used to be stationed at one of them? If so, which one? What was your rank? What was your duty/job on that base?

I starred and flagged this thread because I feel it deserves more attention.

It was well written too, for what its worth



[edit on 19-1-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

What, you mean like a huge flying triangle witnessed by probably hundreds, that blocked out the stars and move silently. I guess they all had a mass delusion and cant tell the difference between a jet and something else which even a 5 yo child can do.


GIMME A BREAK.................

I LOVEEEE how skeptics pick selectively which evidence they will debunk, leaving all the other stuff to magically dissappear. Yea lets not talk about the OTHER sightings on that night yea..

Unfortunately, every time there is something up there that is not quickly identified, people want to believe it is extraterrestrial in nature. More often than not, it has an explanation that is down to earth. The idea is to find the truth, even if it is something we do not want to hear. In this case, it is the flares.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

Originally posted by kidflash2008
I also find it strange that there are many videos and pictures of the later sighting, but none of the alleged boomerang that appeared earlier.

There were indeed two separate events as told by the witnesses, the later one, which is often shown footage of, was obviously flares and I don't think anyone disputes that.

Unfortunately, every time there is something up there that is not quickly identified, people want to believe it is extraterrestrial in nature.

I tend to agree with you to a point but many of the people who said they witnessed the first event, the boomerang shaped craft, said it was probably alien. One of those witnesses is Gov. Fife Symington that described the craft as "feeling otherworldly".

The idea is to find the truth, even if it is something we do not want to hear. In this case, it is the flares.

In your case I'm guessing what you don't want to hear is "it was alien".

No one disputes that flares were dropped, but there were 2 separate events, and people say the first one was a huge boomerang shaped craft. Are you saying there was only one event, the flares?

Seems likely, based on the multiple multiple independent witness accounts that seem to say the same thing. BIG-BLACK-TRIANGLE.


"It was felt that this was indeed a "deception" measure to keep curiosity focused on one space in the sky, as flares were never used that far north of the Goldwater training range (as any Luke personnel can tell you, if they were, there would be weekly "Phoenix Lights" incidents)."

Of course he will, he's a skeptic. He has blinkers on, he will refuse to look/read about ANY other event or testimony from that night, he's found the data that satisfys HIS view of the universe, which is a very lonely one. End of story there mate...

No one disputes that flares were dropped, but there were 2 separate events, and people say the first one was a huge boomerang shaped craft. Are you saying there was only one event, the flares?

[edit on 19-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

Originally posted by atsbeliever
Of course he will, he's a skeptic. He has blinkers on, he will refuse to look/read about ANY other event or testimony from that night, he's found the data that satisfys HIS view of the universe, which is a very lonely one. End of story there mate...

That's not skepticism, what you described is more like pseudoskepticism, but let's the man respond for himself shall we?

Well its not directed at him especially, but in general skeptics are like that. They heard a story spun out by the Air force or whoever, and totally accept that! Without acknowledging or probably reading about ANY of the countless other accounts for the OTHER sighting, the REAL one. And its EXACTLY the response the air force was going for, if what the OP of this thread is saying is true. See what I mean?

There was even a rare video I saw showing the giant light formation flying around and it was clearly 1 object in a V shape of lights that was solid. I wasn't there so I cannot comment for sure, but many many people saw the same thing which was no where near the 'flares show' put on by the USAF.

Just WHAT are they up to? So they cant control these things why do they have to try and deceive us about it though? If there's 1 thing that might pull people together its a common cause such as this. Maybe they dont want us all coming together though. Makes me so frakin' mad!

And these 'skeptics' are only helping them with their agenda, blindly following whatever they say as truth.."oh noo the USAF couldn't POSSIBLY lie to us!!! NO WAY.." man I wish I could be so naive about life..but I've read too much.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by atsbeliever
Of course he will, he's a skeptic. He has blinkers on, he will refuse to look/read about ANY other event or testimony from that night, he's found the data that satisfys HIS view of the universe, which is a very lonely one. End of story there mate...

That's not skepticism, what you described is more like pseudoskepticism, but let's the man respond for himself shall we?

[edit on 19-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 19-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

Due to ATS posting guidelines of 4000 Characters am splitting this into two posts (since it would not allow me to do so in one). Part 1:

Gentlemen (or ladies)….

To begin with, I would like to state a few personal facts before I expand upon my original post. First, I am in no way a “fanatic” when it comes to UFO or paranormal phenomenon. At least, until that March evening in 1997, and even then, I tried to look to Occam’s Razor as a source of comfort, alas knowing what I knew about that night, no simple explanation was forthcoming.

Second, I am now retired from active duty from the United States Air Force. I will provide further information, but wish to be discreet as possible. While no one in my unit was ever specifically threatened, we were “encouraged” to stick with the official story, not in an ominous way mind you, but merely had the “facts” hammered home. We all received the message that was relayed.

Yes, I was stationed in Arizona at the time. No I am not comfortable to give any further personal information than that (rank, unit). I will separate what I know below as “fact” that knowledge gained from firsthand experience and “alleged” that knowledge gained through trusted sources (friend in other units, other bases):

Facts:

On the night of March 13th, 1997, an alert klaxon sounded at Luke, orders for two armed aircraft to perform an immediate take-off to 10,000 feet, and head south-east towards a radar sighting north of Casa Grande, Arizona. The first two aircraft, from the 56th Fighter Wing (310th Fighter Squadron), were armed only with 2x AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles and 20mm Vulcan cannons each. Once the flight was airborne, the flight leader called in that something “odd” was occurring after he picked up a radar contact a few thousand feet below, and several miles ahead of his position. His radar was showing “clutter” common to stand-off jamming.

This led to two further F-16C’s from the 56th, that were being fueled and armed since the first flight was launched, being sent up. This pair, in addition to the armament as above, also carried 2x AIM-7M Sparrow medium range missiles as well. They were also vectored south-east towards Flight 1 (now over Marana, AZ and approaching Tucson) on full afterburner. Flight 1 leader was able to regain radar contact on something large and low that was beginning to accelerate rapidly. Flight 1 lost the contact approximately 7 miles south of Tucson, and was ordered to proceed close to the border and try to regain contact.

Once Flight 1 lost radar contact, Flight 2 was ordered back to Luke (Flight 2 had just approached the Tucson area). Once Flight 1 was on station, attempts were made to re-establish radar contact to no avail. After 10 minutes or so, Flight 1 was ordered back to Luke. ALL of this occurred as the “flares” were being taped and photographed south-west of Phoenix. No aircraft were vectored to that area to investigate.

Part 2:

Alleged Facts:

Further scramble of aircraft was initiated from Nellis AFB, Nevada (prior to the Phoenix sighting) and Holloman AFB, New Mexico (around 10 minutes after the Flight 1 scramble from Luke). F-16’s from Nellis, no word on aircraft type from Holloman (at the time it was the only F-117A “Stealth Fighter” base, with the Luftwaffe having a training squadron of Tornado aircraft, neither would have been used on an intercept mission).

Towers at several locations had tapes of the “event”. Radar at Luke and Davis-Monthan were picking up low level “noise” on several frequencies, similar to what had happened to Flight 1. This “noise” was consistent with active wide-spectrum jamming. It was highly unusual for this to occur in an area that did not have that type of (jamming) training environment (nearest place this was done was at the Nellis AFB range). According to many in the know, something physical was in the sky that night, with radar data providing the primary source of evidence. That “something” entered Mexican airspace and promptly disappeared. Maximum recorded speed was at Mach 1.8 past Tucson nearing Fort Huachuca.

The next day, intelligence units at both Luke and Davis-Monthan were abuzz. No one knew what had occurred, other than something physical was in the sky, an intercept was attempted, and there were thousands of eye-witness accounts (many of these being the flares). Orders were apparently given for a flare-drop near Phoenix by a unit returning from the Goldwater range. This was considered highly odd to say the least, as that order was given while the main event was unfolding. These aircraft were likely A-10’s.

Other than that, all I have is a lot of second-hand hearsay. Mainly stories people would tell while drinking, etc. The above information is from my self, and from close friends whom I trust a great deal. Other than the above, I would not speculate further, as it would take away from the facts and only fuel sensational speculation.

Why I post this on ATS? I came across ATS a few years ago out of curiosity, and started to read it about once a month (never posted). There are a lot of good, level-headed people here (and a fair share of “eclectics”), but I believed this would be the best way to post the information for people to digest.

Thanks,

AL

Thank you Topol for sharing your account of this event

I really appreciate it because I think this was a legitimate incident and also evidence of a cover-up of some sort, and whatever information we can get hopefully helps us trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

Originally posted by Topol-M
The next day, intelligence units at both Luke and Davis-Monthan were abuzz. No one knew what had occurred, other than something physical was in the sky, an intercept was attempted, and there were thousands of eye-witness accounts (many of these being the flares). Orders were apparently given for a flare-drop near Phoenix by a unit returning from the Goldwater range. This was considered highly odd to say the least, as that order was given while the main event was unfolding. These aircraft were likely A-10’s.

I find this somewhat contradictory though. You say no one knew what had occurred, but someone ordered a flare drop, and judging from the footage the pattern of the flare drop was rather curious to say the least, telling me that someone knew exactly what they were doing.

Could it be that officially no one know what had occurred, but behind the scenes someone did know what had happened? Or perhaps you and people of your rank didn't have access or need to know and that's the story you were given too?

Also, I think it would be really important to figure out who exactly order those flares to be dropped. Do you really have no idea who ordered it?

Just as a side note, you speak of "intelligence units". Are these intelligence units part of any Air Force agency like the AF ISR, AF OSI, or something like that? Or just 'regular' units that each base has? I admittedly know little about this, so my question might not make any sense.

Why has it taken you so long to come forward with this and especially why at this particular time?

No ill intent just curious?





[edit on 20-1-2009 by observe50]

Originally posted by observe50
Why has it taken you so long to come forward with this and especially why at this particular time?



[edit on 20-1-2009 by observe50]

A good point but give the OP time?

Originally posted by converge
Thank you Topol for sharing your account of this event

I really appreciate it because I think this was a legitimate incident and also evidence of a cover-up of some sort, and whatever information we can get hopefully helps us trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

I find this somewhat contradictory though. You say no one knew what had occurred, but someone ordered a flare drop, and judging from the footage the pattern of the flare drop was rather curious to say the least, telling me that someone knew exactly what they were doing.

Could it be that officially no one know what had occurred, but behind the scenes someone did know what had happened? Or perhaps you and people of your rank didn't have access or need to know and that's the story you were given too?

Also, I think it would be really important to figure out who exactly order those flares to be dropped. Do you really have no idea who ordered it?

Just as a side note, you speak of "intelligence units". Are these intelligence units part of any Air Force agency like the AF ISR, AF OSI, or something like that? Or just 'regular' units that each base has? I admittedly know little about this, so my question might not make any sense.

Converge,

Greetings. When I stated that Air Force Intelligence was "abuzz" not knowing what happened, I am referring to the Wing intelligence units at Luke and Davis-Monthan AFB's. These are standard units attached to all wings and squadrons in the USAF, mainly dealing with threat assessment, OPFOR planning, and other day to day activities. These are not "specialized" intel units that you would normally see dealing with these kinds of events. The orders that were given for the flare drop would have had to have been very high up, probably even officers outside the Luke and Davis-Monthan chain of command.

For the average intelligence personnel working on the bases, this event was no doubt "above their pay grade" and security clearance. My apologies if my statement on this matter seemed contradictory.

AL

Originally posted by observe50
Why has it taken you so long to come forward with this and especially why at this particular time?

No ill intent just curious?

Because I did not wish to come forward while still actively serving, to do so would have added additional complications that could have had an adverse affect on my career.

Why now? Because I am no longer serving, and for the past few years there has been an increasing amount of talk among those I have served with about other, more recent, UFO incidents, but we always come back to the "Phoenix Lights" event. My desire to find the truth was reignited quite recently due to a conversation with a good friend who was also stationed with me in Arizona at the time, and so the past few weeks I have been digging up all I can on the story, and finding out what new developments or disclosures have occurred since. Surprisingly, aside from Symington's, very little is out there.......

AL