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Obama's Stimulus Plan to Create 3.5 Million Jobs

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posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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www.msnbc.msn.com...

Obama: Stimulus will create 3.5 million jobs



WASHINGTON - Facing growing criticism of his economic recovery plan, President-elect Barack Obama made public Saturday a detailed analysis by his economic advisers that estimates the $775 billion plan of tax cuts and new spending would create 3.5 million jobs over the next two years.

With an eye on Obama having immediate access to bailout money already approved by Congress when he becomes president, his economic team and the Bush administration have discussed having Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson ask lawmakers for access to the $350 billion remaining in the fund.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the Bush administration has not decided whether to make such a request before Bush's term ends on Jan. 20. Under the terms of the legislation creating the bailout fund, Congress would have 15 days to reject the request.

---

Obama, who previously has provided few details of the massive spending and tax cut plan, released the report one day after the unemployment rate jumped to 7.2 percent, the highest in 16 years. The nation lost 524,000 jobs in December, bringing the total job loss for last year to 2.6 million, the largest since World War II.

If Congress fails to enact a big economic stimulus plan, Obama's advisers estimated that another 3 million to 4 million jobs will disappear before the recession ends.




[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]




posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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WASHINGTON - The nation's unemployment rate bolted to 7.2 percent in December, the highest level in 16 years, as nervous employers slashed 524,000 jobs, capping one of the worst years in modern history for American workers.

...

All told, 11.1 million people were unemployed in December. In addition, 8 million people were working part time — a category that includes those who would like to work full time but whose hours were cut back or those who were unable to find full-time work. That was up sharply from 7.3 million in November.

www.msnbc.msn.com...





[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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11.1 minus 3.5 equals... 7.6 million unemployed for the billions of dollars that it would cost in taxcuts or however else they plan to do this. Is it really worth it? Aren't there better ways to make jobs? What about those 7.6 million people left over?

If 3-4 million jobs might be lost before this is all over in addition to what is lost now, then we may not even be helping those people who have been unemployed for years.

Do you think that there is a better way to deal with the rise in unemployment? Is this the fault of the Bush administration- could they have done something in the past months, or years, to help the unemployed? Maybe if we had started investing to create more jobs a year ago, millions would still be employed or would have found new jobs.

[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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The ONLY way your going to fix this problem is to bring back those industrial manufacturing jobs BACK into the US. Dumping money into the problem wont fix it, when those companies will just use that money to invest overseas. There has to be a law, a regulation that prohibits in overseas investment and return investment HERE, in this country.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 


How are we going to bring those jobs back, with our economy the way it is? In the long run it would pay off, but in the short term it is a vicious cycle. And if we brought those companies back, the head honchos would need to change their salaries and personal spending. Also, remember that a lot of the assembly jobs barely paid minimum wage.

Is that right?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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More spending is not the answer. It's been their answer for everything so far and it has done nothing to help us. It's just making it worse. It's almost as if they purposely trying to run this country in the ground.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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So, what else can we do about these jobs?
What should the unemployed be doing right now? The search for a job is almost pointless and more competitive than getting into Juilliard. Should they be sitting home? What about the unemployment checks- they only come for three months, tops. What should they do?

What will happen when tons more people become unemployed?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Seems like the figure is 4.1 million now. Regardless... it doesn't really make a difference.
Boo unemployment.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Personally I see spending as a vital part of the solution. RFBurns' point on the need for creating laws that prevents overseas investments and returns here in the USA to force companies to once again begin manufacturing in the USA.

We need to spend money on basic infrastructure though and this can be done in ways that also create jobs and make the idea of manufacturing in the USA more plausible.

DAvid9176 says spending has been the answer up to now and that it has done no good, but that is because of the TYPE of spending, which was nothing more than a bailout of the governments rich buddies.

'You have got to spend money to make money' or so the old saying goes. This country has been a crumbling industrial empire for a long time now. Our infrastructure needs to be rebuilt if we are to once again to become a creditor nation rather than a debtor nation (thanks Thom Hartman).

The basic infrastructure need sot be rebuilt and we need to begin investing in new forms of infrastructure such as alternative energy to make this nation productive in terms of energy, jobs ad wealth.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Manufacturing plants across the US are closed and shuttered and have been for years. In the 90's it was found that it was cheaper to import and we made more money on exports. That is not here now.

You also have people, and I have heard this before, who will not work for 10 bucks an hour or have 2 jobs. Well, if the electric is going to be turned off, buck up little soldier and go flip some steaks at a local restaurant. I know a girl with a Masters who waits tables 3 nights a week to supplement her income. Tough times indeed folks.

You cannot create jobs when there are none there to begin with and they will need to pour millions into training for these people. Then, if there are no tax breaks as promised by the incoming administration for small companies, how are these people going to be hired? Create federal jobs so we pay for it with higher taxes.

The only people we have to blame are lazy Americans.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Animal
 





Our infrastructure needs to be rebuilt if we are to once again to become a creditor nation rather than a debtor nation


I'm not stating that this shouldn't be done...i think it does need to be addressed...but we need to go about it a different way.

This alone is not going to make us a creditor nation. Spending needs to be cut dramatically to help erase the debt. That's not going to happen...they are going to tax us even more.

Aren't people sick of the government taking all of their money? I bust my ass each day so the government can forcefully take my money and do whatever they want with it....not to mention print more money and destroy the value of the few dollars i have in my pocket?

It's a double screw job and everyone sits and takes it like it's ok...and want the government to do even more of the same thing.

I don't see the line of thinking in this.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Sorry to bring the main point here, but esdad71 layout the main reason why America doesn't have jobs anymore.

Even our service jobs are been outsourced.

Then look around you and see who in America are still working and working everyday, illegal immigrants they are the ones that do most of the service jobs available and the infrastructure jobs in construction.

Yes I can already see the massive border wave that will take over by illegal immigrants when Obama release the millions of dollars for the infrastructure in the nation.

If America doesn't stop the bad policies enacted during the Clinton administration, that means the NAFTA the WTO and the VAT Obama stimulus will become nothing more than another failure and more burden on the Americans tax payer.

While China and south of the border will be reaping the benefits and profits of it.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Animal
 





Our infrastructure needs to be rebuilt if we are to once again to become a creditor nation rather than a debtor nation


I'm not stating that this shouldn't be done...i think it does need to be addressed...but we need to go about it a different way.

This alone is not going to make us a creditor nation. Spending needs to be cut dramatically to help erase the debt. That's not going to happen...they are going to tax us even more.



I did not say this is going to solve the problem alone either. In fact I was very clear that the solution is going to be comprised of many aspects. I was saying that we need to once again become a producer of goods, you know manufacturing. In order for us to once again begin producing goods we need to invest in our infrastructure. In addition we also need policy that keeps business, manufacturing, and thus jobs here in the USA rather than in India, China, Mexico and all the other nations where US corporations can exploit the lower class citizens who have not even a shred of fair representation in government and thus get paid $1 a week, or the company can pollute and do what ever makes them more money.

Frankly I find the notion that reducing the spending of money is going to solve this problem silly. I would really like to hear an good explanation of how cutting spending is going to save us in the long run.


Originally posted by marg6043
Sorry to bring the main point here, but esdad71 layout the main reason why America doesn't have jobs anymore.

Even our service jobs are been outsourced....

If America doesn't stop the bad policies enacted during the Clinton administration, that means the NAFTA the WTO and the VAT Obama stimulus will become nothing more than another failure and more burden on the Americans tax payer.

While China and south of the border will be reaping the benefits and profits of it.


I could not agree more with this. We need to prevent our corporations for fleeing the USA to make more for themselves while leaving the nation 'high and dry'. We need to undo or severely limit the roll in globalization as it is in the end benefiting corporations and the nations. Ricardo (grand-dad of free trade and globalization) talked about how this idea of comparative advantage, which is at the heart of globaization and free trade worked because currencies were limited by the boarders of each individual nation, something that has not been true for a long long time. In today's world where money travels as fast as information the underpinning concepts of this scheme are missing making it, irrelevant.



Then look around you and see how in America[ns?] are still working and working everyday, illegal immigrants they are the ones that do most of the service jobs available and the infrastructure jobs in construction.


I would have to beg to differ on half of this. The illegals are limited in the jobs they can get. I would like to see some good proof that it is illegals who are doing more if the infrastructure work in this nation.

Yet they are taking up a lot of jobs, in the service industry. While I agree that is a problem I do not think that this nation should and could survive on service industry jobs alone, thus the need for improved infrastructure and the recreation of a manufacturing industry here int he USA.



Yes I can already see the massive border wave that will take over by illegal immigrants when Obama release the millions of dollars for the infrastructure in the nation.


Infrastructure jobs are going to be largely staffed by government agencies making it very unlikely that these jobs will be filled by illegals rather than citizens.

Whats more if we include things like alternative energy and alternative transportation in this rebuilding it will take trained and skilled labor to fill the positions not half-literate (no offense I am simply talking about english proficiency) illegals.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Animal]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


Why infrastructure? Well:

Corrosion caused Appomattox pipeline rupture

serves as a good example...











posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Animal

I would have to beg to differ on half of this. The illegals are limited in the jobs they can get. I would like to see some good proof that it is illegals who are doing more if the infrastructure work in this nation.



I guess it depends where you live or the demographic location you may be at, here in the south the construction jobs in the streets (public works) and private are done mainly by illegal immigrants as the state tend to have a blind eye.

But that is one of the problems, jobs generated in America under the Obama stimulus have to be for Americans only.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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This should read "Obama's stimulus plan to cause massive inflationary depression".

You know if it weren't for these damned socialist bailouts of the Bush administration maybe we would be able to afford it. But we're going to make our foreign investors very nervous with the amount of debt we're going to rack up against their interests. When the foreign capital takes a flight out of the country, we'll be left with an over abundance of worthless dollars paying for projects we can't afford.

God bless President Obama, I know he means well, but this is going to blow up in his face.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Animal

I would have to beg to differ on half of this. The illegals are limited in the jobs they can get. I would like to see some good proof that it is illegals who are doing more if the infrastructure work in this nation.



I guess it depends where you live or the demographic location you may be at, here in the south the construction jobs in the streets (public works) and private are done mainly by illegal immigrants as the state tend to have a blind eye.


Really? What state is that? I live in New Mexico, obviously on the boarder with Mexico, and yes we have a lot of illegals here working but NOT for the state or federal government. Perhaps you are confusing 'brown' people in general with illegals?






Originally posted by projectvxn
This should read "Obama's stimulus plan to cause massive inflationary depression".


And what is the alternative to investing in the country to make it more economically viable mate? Do nothing? More tax cuts?



You know if it weren't for these damned socialist bailouts of the Bush administration maybe we would be able to afford it.


Socialist? Really? Hmmm, sounds evil.



But we're going to make our foreign investors very nervous with the amount of debt we're going to rack up against their interests.


Our foreign investors are already nervous watching us bail water out of a sinking ship, they are going to flee if we do not quickly develop and institute emergency plans. Infrastructure is the foundation of a productive and healthy nation. Infrastructure pays for itself in the long run.




When the foreign capital takes a flight out of the country, we'll be left with an over abundance of worthless dollars paying for projects we can't afford.


Yup, so what should we do mate?




God bless President Obama, I know he means well, but this is going to blow up in his face.



Simply a difference of opinion.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Animal


First, we need to get back to what this country is good at doing. Free Market.
Not to be confused with free trade which is what is hurting us in the first place. We don't produce anything here, and we have allowed large monopolies, both regional and national to drive down competition which drives down wages and production and leave no wealth to be generated at home. Therefore the longer we ignore the principles of the free market the more of these crises we will see in the future.

1. Tariff the hell out of imported goods and the good produced by American companies overseas. This will give the government the money they need to pay for reinvestment programs without taxing US taxpayers into oblivion. Do this to the point that it becomes cheaper to produce in the US.

2. Return to a sound monetary policy backed by hard valued assets instead of speculated value.

3. ENFORCE MONOPOLY laws. Our anti-trust laws are there for a reason. We cannot allow large conglomerates to corner markets to the point that they drive competition into the ground.

4. Allow failed enterprises to fail instead of giving them a handout that they will just steal from us and never pay back anyway.

5. Foster good employee protections and make sure that production keeps up with wages and vice versa. If we don't do this we will always have to deal with costs out-pacing wages and creating default crises like the one we are seeing now.

6. Eliminate free-trade agreements. Cheap foreign products does not translate into American prosperity, it only eliminates business here in the US that would otherwise be hiring workers to make their products.

7. After all of this get as much foreign investment as possible to finance further growth. The foreign investors will get consistent and REAL returns based on our consistent and REAL production, and every body wins.

8.Shrink government spending and get rid of agencies and departments that do nothing more than drain the people wealth and pass it on to the top of an already imbalanced pyramid.

There are free-market solutions to this problem. And the things we are dealing with now is not a problem it is a natural consequence of thinking we could spend and borrow against our own future and net prosperity. All the money America has right now belongs to foreign investors...And they will come knocking soon.


Edit to add:

All of these things have been done before and to great rewards. 40's 50's and 60's is an example of this. The longer we keep artificially inflating bubbles the more we're going to suffer. Deficit and bubble economies DO NOT LAST. And in the end only cause pain.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
Animal


First off mate I would just like to say that I applaud your response and I agree with ALL of the points you raised. They are all sane and logical approches to solving the problem and are also powerful and direct.




First, we need to get back to what this country is good at doing. Free Market.
Not to be confused with free trade which is what is hurting us in the first place. We don't produce anything here, and we have allowed large monopolies, both regional and national to drive down competition which drives down wages and production and leave no wealth to be generated at home. Therefore the longer we ignore the principles of the free market the more of these crises we will see in the future.


Again this makes MORE than perfect sense and I support it 100%. I think though that putting energy into the rebuilding and improving on the existing infrastructure in the USA is going to be an absolutely essential element of rebuilding our capacity to do just that.

Without adequate infrastructure we can not produce anything well enough to be competitive PERIOD

I also do not see what there can not be a Free Market element to this venture as well.

Also we are in immediate danger of collapse. Unemployment is at, what, a 15 or 20 year high?

The dollar is at an all time low.

Something has to be done TODAY to begin bracing for the IMPACT.

To me there seems to be strong logic in prepping the nation for reestablishing itself as a producer.



There are free-market solutions to this problem. And the things we are dealing with now is not a problem it is a natural consequence of thinking we could spend and borrow against our own future and net prosperity. All the money America has right now belongs to foreign investors...And they will come knocking soon.


Yep. So true. And do you think that your points alone will solve the problem and soon enough to matter?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Animal

Yes I do believe that this can work and within the time frame that Obama's stimulus plan projects. I agree that we need to rebuild our infrastructure, but we can't do that if we have no money, and we can't very well print all of the money we need to meet these demands without destroying the dollar and making the problem completely irreversible.

We are on the verge of collapse, yes. But without a strong dollar, and sound economics it won't matter how much money we put into infrastructure, because it is all about buying power. And you can't run an economy the way Zimbabwe runs theirs. What we will see is a bunch of quarter and half finished public works projects that will have the brakes put on them by massive inflation. The Bush Admin pretty much made sure that the next guy would preside over the downfall of America.

But to be fair here, this is a problem that has been going on since the 1970's. Once there is a problem with Iran, expect inflation to go through the roof.



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