Violence never solves anything?

i am reading "Starship Troopers" by Robert A. Heinlein, and i came across the teacher in the beginning of the book Mr. Dubios. He is a teacher in History and Moral Philosophy or H&MP for short. Anyways the class was on the topic "violence never sloves anything." and the answer that Mr. Dubois gave got me thinking. heres his answer.

" 'Anyone who clings to the historically untrue - and thoroughly immoral - doctrine that 'violence never solves anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has setteld more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."


well what do you think"


does violence never really solve anything?


i fully agree with Mr. Dubois

Violence solves EVERYTHING.


Its the way of nature

Originally posted by Amuk
Violence solves EVERYTHING.


Its the way of nature

Sure is, Look at anmials in the great out doors. Fight to stay alive, fight to eat, fight to mate.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by SpittinCobra]

It can be true. But cooperation could solve everything too, if we collectively allowed it to. Isn't that what is supposed to seperate us from the beast, our ability to reason or something like that?...

Well, yes fighting does solve problems, but it is not neccessarily the best way to solve problems.

Just because animals in the wild fight, does that neccessarily mean that we have to sink to their level and do it too?

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
It can be true. But cooperation could solve everything too, if we collectively allowed it to. Isn't that what is supposed to seperate us from the beast, our ability to reason or something like that?...

NOTHING seperates us from the Beasts

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
It can be true. But cooperation could solve everything too, if we collectively allowed it to. Isn't that what is supposed to seperate us from the beast, our ability to reason or something like that?...

Beating the crap out of somebody can be reasonable in certain cases

Anyway, humans are animals, just like dogs and cats and goats. We need to accept that we are governed by the same rules as all life. The difference is that we can understand the rules. We can occassionally break them, but the ref always has the last say.

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Isn't that what is supposed to seperate us from the beast, our ability to reason or something like that?...

I dont know, I think animal reason in there own way. Lets take squrels, they decide to run past the big things(cars) It stops when it gets to close to the car moving at it, the animal will stop to reason what to do, run back? run foward?

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by SpittinCobra]

how the hell do you know a squirrel stops when it sees an incoming car to reason? Can you read their minds? or have you been able to hold a conversation with one?

They could be saying in their squirrel way..... "look how pretty........swash" another dead squirrel.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Muaddib]

I know that humans are animals, and we are not outside of nature. And I know animals can have reason also. I was just poking fun at this whole, "seperates us from the beast" nonsense...

I think that trying to hard to be something else than the animal we are causes a lot of our cultures problems.

Originally posted by Amuk
I think that trying to hard to be something else than the animal we are causes a lot of our cultures problems.

Well, we are different from other animals in a few ways.

Other animals use tools, but not on the scale that we do. Other animals construct shelters, but not on the scale we do. However, the main differing factor is this:

Animals adapt to their surroundings- we adapt our surroundings to us. There was a proto-human species that used a hand axe (basically a sharp rock) to butcher food and the like. Fast forward 1 million years- They still used the same damn rocks. They weren't using tools out of intelligence, they were using them out of instinct.

One million years, and they can't put a rock on the end of a stick.

100 years, we went from a wood and paper airplane that can fly a few hudnred feet to the moon.

That's the difference between humans and animals. Both follow the rules. Humans are the only ones who can figure out the rules, and bend them in our favor.

Using a rock as a handaxe for hundreds of thousands of years out of instinct, because it worked.

Then we come along and streamline it, put lights in the handle and make it vibrate...

...progress?...

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Using a rock as a handaxe for hundreds of thousands of years out of instinct, because it worked.

Then we come along and streamline it, put lights in the handle and make it vibrate...

...progress?...

Their rocks worked.

Our rocks work better.

Violence solves everything: no man, no problem.

What better way to solve the problem by getting rid of the problem?

Sure it does, just ask Tommy Vercetti.

As for violence, people have to wake up and realize that the world is not rosy and that nations have a right to defend themselves against attacks. Terrorists do not break down and cry when you open your arms to them, they'll kill you, and look for the next victim.

"Violence only leads to more violence."

this one is so stupid you usually would have to be the president of an ivy league universty to say it. Here's the truth: ineffective, rushed violence leads to more violence.

lame, panicked, half-assed procedures lead to more violence. however, complete, fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead.

thats right, dead. not "on trial," not "reeducated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead. D-E-Well, you get the idea.

But my post is all in reference to war. not everday lifestyle.

[Edited on 4/9/2004 by panchovilla]

just to make my position crystal clear nothing seperates us from the animals. infact i believe that "animals" are on an extremely higher level of reincarnation. most humans don't even get to come back, animals do no not need our pittiful languages and rhetoric because they are far above it.

violence is in no way and end to all. does not the lions belly grow hungry again? will not the lion prides disappear before the zebra and wildabeast?



[Edited on 4/9/2004 by panchovilla]