Help bible prophecies please help

Ok so this thread is about The USA in Bible Prophecy. Now please before you turn away I will list videos with great scriptures that bring out my point BABYLON THE GREAT could be America. What I am looking for is people with great knowledge of the bible and bible prophecies to give me there opinion on these scriptures the videos list. Amazing Facts has been a source of better understna of bible scripture to me.

Amazing Facts:The USA in Bible Prophecy part1
www.youtube.com...

Amazing Facts:The USA in Bible Prophecy part2
www.youtube.com...

Amazing Facts:The USA in Bible Prophecy part3
www.youtube.com...

Now to me Amazing facts give good scripures to prove that Babylon the great is america. Please watch the videos, they only like 10 minutes each.

If you do a search in youtube on
USA in Bible Prophecy there will be a list of videos to watch that i believe that give great scriptures too.

Please if anyone here believes this is wrong give me your reason why and scriptures to prove your point. I also suggest going to there web site
www.amazingfacts.org...

God bless

reply to post by slymattb


Concerning Revelation 13:11-12.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

He states that the US is the 2nd beast because the country started off as a Christian state.(lamb) This is incorrect.

The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

www.earlyamerica.com...


Its also a misinterpretation,verse 11 does not say that the 2nd beast started out as a lamb,it says that it had 2 horns like a lamb and at the same time it spoke as a dragon.(which he interprets as the devil)


America has never done what is says in verse 12,it has never exercised power like the 1st beast,Rome.It has never caused people to worship the 1st beast in the manner the verse implies.And it does not have church and state as one,as the guy says,coz its actually forbidden in your own Constitution to have a 'universal' faith.



[edit on 27-12-2008 by DantesLost]

reply to post by slymattb


Matt,
I listened to about the first 4 minutes of the first video and already realized the guy wasn't being honest with his first Biblical text. He stopped at verse 5 (Rev. 17) and verse 6 CLEARLY refutes the idea that the USA or the RCC is this woman:

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This verse talks about "the blood of the Saints". Neither the USA, nor the RCC are drunk with the blood of the OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS. (There WERE (are) Old Testament Saints!) To make the USA (or the RCC) "guilty" of the blood of the OT Saints is simply outrageous and it makes the rest of the videos not worth my time to watch.

Please before responding watch all the videos some of the things I dont know. But in every video he list scriptures to prove his point. And some of them are really convincing. Watch the video and listen to what he's talking about. I wouldnt of put the videos if I didnt think that there is good bible scripture in there. God bless

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by slymattb

 

Matt,
I listened to about the first 4 minutes of the first video and already realized the guy wasn't being honest with his first Biblical text. He stopped at verse 5 (Rev. 17) and verse 6 CLEARLY refutes the idea that the USA or the RCC is this woman:

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This verse talks about "the blood of the Saints". Neither the USA, nor the RCC are drunk with the blood of the OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS. (There WERE (are) Old Testament Saints!) To make the USA (or the RCC) "guilty" of the blood of the OT Saints is simply outrageous and it makes the rest of the videos not worth my time to watch.

Not that I believe that the US is the great Harlot, but what makes you think the saints mentioned in Revelation is only about Old Testament saints? There is nothing in the text that gives that impression. It is the same word used to describe the members of the Church in the Epistles in verses such as...

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now the RCC most defiantly has the blood of saints on it's hands, more than any organization currently around. During the inquisitions it killed people for simply owning Bibles, and reading them. How many of them do you think were true followers of God, called to be saints?

reply to post by PreTribGuy
Just maybe, being drunk with the blood of saints mean that the teachings & examples of the saints were not heeded by babylon and was, in fact, subverted by babylon's lifestyle. imvho only.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy

This verse talks about "the blood of the Saints". Neither the USA, nor the RCC are drunk with the blood of the OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS. (There WERE (are) Old Testament Saints!) To make the USA (or the RCC) "guilty" of the blood of the OT Saints is simply outrageous and it makes the rest of the videos not worth my time to watch.

Hello,

You are incorrect, the USA, as you say is not drunken with the blood but the RCC has been, i do not think it is presently though. My own opinion is that the first beast is military/kingdom and the second is religion.

currently there is a kind of lull, although the religon that seems to be gaining power is Islam presently. The saints are not just the OT saints they are any that are in Christ.

Cast your mind back to the OT and you will see that the king/power of the time allowed paganism/occult/etc to be practised and even encouraged at times.

This is the first and second beasts, the woman (betrothed) is def the church. The harlot woman, like any extra marital affair, is similar to the women but not the true bride. So we have to look for the false church. Not to make anyone upset but i belive this has in the past and still does include the RCC. A note of caution for Christians this must now include many a protestant church as they clearly are leading people away from Gods word.

These powers,as they were in the OT, are constantly changing and evolving but have their roots in the enemy of God. We should look at the times and be wary but we must not fix them as Satan is more astute than that. We must identify features of the beasts and see what fits at the time.

mystery = Hidden
Babylon = Confusion

Rev 17:6 says the harlot is the mother of the above. These are the mysteries and who and whatever carried these on in part or full is one Christians should watch.

being drunk is to be intoxicated and both Vines and Strongs say this is with the spilling of blood and the RCC has been part of that past without argument.

That all said its not impossible that at some future juncture that the USA may become drunk with the blood of the saints. who knows

david

reply to post by doctorex


Emphasis mine:

Not that I believe that the US is the great Harlot, but what makes you think the saints mentioned in Revelation is only about Old Testament saints?

I don't.

I am just saying that the verse includes them. I should have been more clear in my response. I made the assumption that people knew there are NT Saints, also. I apologize for not being clear.

reply to post by drevill

You are incorrect, the USA, as you say is not drunken with the blood but the RCC has been, i do not think it is presently though.

The woman described in in Rev. 17:6 existed before the RCC. The woman may INCLUDE the RCC, but it cannot BE (solely) the RCC.

Same woman here:

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

This is not "just" the RCC. It just isn't.

Rev. 18:24 seems to imply (to me) that this "woman" existed even back to Cain! (Cain killed Abel)

Matt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

While the RCC may be guilty of some atrocious murders, it by no means is guilty of the blood of Abel.

reply to post by slymattb

Please before responding watch all the videos some of the things I dont know. But in every video he list scriptures to prove his point. And some of them are really convincing. Watch the video and listen to what he's talking about. I wouldnt of put the videos if I didnt think that there is good bible scripture in there. God bless

Matt, my time is worth something. OK?

AND, it is my guess that other people's time is worth something also?

It just isn't worth my time to listen through another 25 minutes of this guy. He is dishonest with the text in the first 4 minutes and that is enough for me. I am under no obligation to continue to listen after I hear the first lie:

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Matt, I've been a believer for a long time (since 1972). This stuff this guy is teaching is NOT NEW to me, OK? I've heard it before, in many variations, and I know what their agenda is...and I am trying to help YOU (and OTHERS) to avoid wasting any further time on these videos.

He doesn't have anything new to teach me:

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Matt, please see your U2U?

Originally posted by doctorex
Not that I believe that the US is the great Harlot, but what makes you think the saints mentioned in Revelation is only about Old Testament saints? There is nothing in the text that gives that impression. It is the same word used to describe the members of the Church in the Epistles in verses such as...

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now the RCC most defiantly has the blood of saints on it's hands, more than any organization currently around. During the inquisitions it killed people for simply owning Bibles, and reading them. How many of them do you think were true followers of God, called to be saints?

Sorry, but you are using the words of Paul as justification, who is NOT what he claims to be. He leads people astray and is the one who took the word to Rome where it has been manipulated ever since.

I do not trust anything that comes from Paul. There are too many times when he says things that go against what Jesus taught, in many cases exactly the opposite.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

There are too many times when he says things that go against what Jesus taught, in many cases exactly the opposite.

Things like this?

1 Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

.
.
.
.
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1 Tim 6:4-5 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

And btw, I think the video in the OP is right on the money. What he says is exactly what I also saw and see in the world. I think it's great to see other people are getting it too.

1 thing I would like to add to this is dealing with the church of Philadelphia. The US was founded in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. That spirit is protected and the only spirit Jesus is not upset with. Just remember it is that spirit in the people, not the government which he is talking about. Also, study up on the constitution because that is the key of David IMO.

When you look at the people David took up and lead, you find they are the undesirables of society. And that is also what the constitution protects. Dispite all the bad stuff that has been done and is going around, the constitution remains and while it is constantly attacked and people are misled on how it works, it has remained for those who know how to use it. It is for those with little strength etc. The constitution which has been in the way and protected things like freedom of religion and so on. Hold it dear, and learn how to understand it. I can show you how it is supposed to work if you need me too. Lets just say it's not followed by government, but if you are able to bring it up then you can get protection. Remember in the movie where he says through the law and understandings of Jesus you find protection. The constitution is part of it.

As I mentioned before while talking about Paul, the Mainstream church is the synagogue of Satan. Remember that in the time of Jesus, they didn't call a church a church, they called them synagogues.

Rev 3:

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Also, I have always thought of the woman as the money changers. Which puts out money @ loan and interest to the leaders/kings. They were present before Jesus and are still present today.

In todays world, the dollar is the world currency and all the nations drink from the federal reserve. Which is also seperate of the beast, and sits on top of the country/world. Giving birth to money, debt and economic slavery for the kings.

This part I'm not all that sure on, but that is always the impression I have gotten when reading.

reply to post by PreTribGuy


I think the easiest example comes from the rich man who approaches Jesus. According to Jesus, it is easier to get a camel through the needle of an eye than a rich man into heaven. Jesus tells him to give his riches to the poor and walk the path. Jesus doesn't tell that rich man to just "accept him in his heart" or anything like that. The rich man walks off disappointed because he couldn't part with his riches.

Then Paul comes along and says to the rich man - oh just accept Jesus into your heart and you can get into heaven. All the while they of course must follow the and support the church with their riches.

And what does Jesus say about this? For wide and broad is the path that lead to death and destruction. And what happens directly after the church is created? The dark ages, a time of death and destruction. Because it teaches people a broad path.

The entire concept that Paul is needed to do what he does is to say that God/Jesus was unable to fulfill his purpose and so on. Paul comes in and completely dismantles and manipulates the message of Jesus.

Satan has always been in control of this world. Thus how he was able to offer the world to Jesus to begin with if Jesus worshiped him. Jesus refused, he was killed shortly after. But yet, somehow the church rises to be a world power, just "happens" to do a bunch of evil and such all before the return of Christ.

People believe in the church because it sells the broad path. So many members because it sounds soooo easy. But that is hardly the message of Jesus. All the while supporters will have me look only at the left hand that gives to charity and such, and ignore the right hand that works in sin.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is the message the church can expect. They have done many works in sin. Promoted things not by understanding or teaching as Jesus did, but by force and sin killing, torturing and worse to those who did not go along and threatened their worldly power.






[edit on 28-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

Then Paul comes along and says to the rich man - oh just accept Jesus into your heart and you can get into heaven. All the while they of course must follow the and support the church with their riches.

I'm not aware that Paul (speaking via the Holy Spirit) ever said this. Could you please point me to the Scripture that says this?

Paul comes in and completely dismantles and manipulates the message of Jesus.

This is not true. Paul SAYS that those who don't consent (AGREE WITH the words of Jesus) are...

1 Tim 6:4-5 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Paul, in the very same chapter said this (about "rich men"):

1 Tim 6:6-10 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Badmedia, I don't know how you can make Paul into an enemy of the Gospel when he plainly agrees with everything Jesus says...

People believe in the church because it sells the broad path. So many members because it sounds soooo easy. But that is hardly the message of Jesus.

Actually, Jesus said this was going to happen in Matt 13:
24-33 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

I agree with your quote from the Bible in your post above, but you are not giving it it's correct application. Paul isn't a type of "anti-christ" or "anti-Jesus" at all. He even SAID that those who don't CONSENT to the words of Jesus...know nothing. (1 Tim 6:4)

Badmedia, I am familiar with this "hate PAULINE letters and doctrine". I've heard it before...

(To the rest of those who've read this far I say

...and it is usually combined with some sort of "doctrine" that says:

"No musical instruments allowed in a service".

Now perhaps (and likely) this is not the doctrine badmedia brings, but I SAY that this type of doctrine usually includes the combination. (Ooops! and James and a lot of the other NT books are excluded, also.)

These "Jesus ONLY" people are dreamers. They "see" error in books between the Gospel of John and Revelation and surmise that the NT is REALLY only FIVE books:

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Revelation

(and sometimes Acts)

These dreamers (please pay attention, all those who read! This is a "slight-of-hand-trick" that they do, so watch closely!) surmise that they can TELL that the middle of the NT is corrupt and evil. The REASON they "say" they can tell this is because they can see some "error" in anything BUT Jesus's words.

This is a modern type of Gnosticism. They want to BE Paul!

Here is the "trick":

THEY proclaim that there is NO POSSIBLE LOGICAL OR PLAUSIBLE WAY that the Pauline letters can be reconciled with the words of Jesus. They state this as a FACT (but it isn't true).

THEN they make PAUL out to be some sort of an "anti-Jesus". (again, NOT TRUE, but they are looking for an audience...for now they are declaring themselves to be ABOVE Paul...)

THEN...

...they seem to think THEY can write the "rest of the NT".

Did everyone catch this "sleight of hand"?

Badmedia, if you have read this far, please note that I am not saying you believe/subscribe-to/care-for/teach all the above, I'm only noting what I've discovered (in the past) that is typically associated with this type of doctrine. You, badmedia, are certainly free to provide your own doctrine (to us) and I apologize (ahead of time) if I've accidentally offended you.

reply to post by PreTribGuy


I didn't learn from the bible, I learned what I know from the father and the holy spirit. In my teachings the word Jesus did not appear at all(nor did any names). I was told the names and things were the important thing, but rather the messages and understandings contained in the bible.

I speak of no doctrine other than the truth. The first time I read Jesus after getting the truth I was downright floored. I had no idea Jesus said and spoke so much truth. I understood everything he said, and it was like listening too me speak about what I had learned.

The same can not be said of Paul.

Paul puts all the focus into the idol of Jesus and not on to the teachings. Paul is a pharisees and always was.

Pharisee
1. A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

The modern day church(synagogue) modeled after Paul are the modern day Pharisees. There are many who claim to be "Jews" but really aren't(Christian wasn't a word back then, so this applies to Christians as well).

Jesus taught freedom and that the people were the authority. Paul went to Rome and taught people to submit to that authority. The authority of Satan, not god. Even the pharisees(children of Satan according to Jesus) believed in the old testament, and a very strict interpretation of it. They were considered to be among the most nobel in the land, just like a Pasture. They were even sometimes persecuted for their beliefs. But they were hypocrites because they had no understanding. I has nothing to do with "knowing what the bible says". It has nothing to do with consenting Jesus is right - even Satan will say that. It has to do with UNDERSTANDING what Jesus was talking about, and walking the path yourself.

Christians wear the cross around as a symbol of Sacrifice. Satan is the one who sees Jesus as a sacrifice. Not so you should live, but as a sacrifice of TRUTH so that the LIE of this world may continue to live. And it will be that way until the return of the truth. It is the life of Jesus, not his death which should be celebrated.

Are you to say the rich man isn't accepted by the church and told he will get to heaven? I don't know that Paul said those things exactly, but that is exactly what the church modeled after him pretty much teaches.

I belong to no church, no doctrine except for the doctrine of truth. I learned truth from the father, yes a personal relationship with the father is actually possible and I seen that truth shown and repeated in Jesus in a way no man has ever shown me, and I see none of that in Paul. All I see in Paul is a son of man.

You think you are saved at John 3:16? NO. You are saved with John 14. When you realize John 14:20 and know that connection then you are saved. And it is followed by the holy spirit who will come and teach people things so they can understand for themselves.

Paul did not learn from the holy spirit as I did.

And btw, it is only the words of Jesus that I hold as truth from the bible.


[edit on 29-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by slymattb


Hi slymattb,

I was almost hooked to Amazing Facts about 7 years ago, until I started looking more into the material that was presented. I dug deeper and found that it's based largely on the theology of the Seven Day Adventist church. If you read into the teachings of the SDA church, it goes totally against some of the things written in 1 Timothy 4.

Also one time when Doug said that the time is near...that rang bells of what Jesus said in Luke 21

"And he said: take heed, that ye be not deceived. For many will come in my name saying: I am he: and the time draweth near. Follow ye not them therefore. "

But regarding the US in prophesy, when I'm reading in the book of Revelations, when it speaks of the woman who gave birth and fled from the dragon, you know from history, how the pilgrims fled to America, to the wilderness? Then came the religious puritans who would start their religious persecutions...like the Salem which trails and such? It reminds me of that.

How about Gog and Magog? There's only one country in the world that proclaims the name. Even having festivals in the name.

You know the little book? William Tyndale a martyr of God, was burned at the stakes because he translated the Word into English, so we all would be able to read God's truth. At the time of his death he said, "Lord open the king of Englands eyes". He had a helper, a man named John Rogers, who too was burned at the stake in front of his wife and 10 children. A few days before his death he wrote this to his children.

Originally posted by DearWife
Luke 21
"And he said: take heed, that ye be not deceived. For many will come in my name saying: I am he: and the time draweth near. Follow ye not them therefore. "

And Paul says this:
Rom13

11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

So I guess this is proof Paul is a false prophet and shouldn't be listened too.

That guy says the time is near, which I agree with. Paul says the time is now - over 1000 years ago.



[edit on 29-12-2008 by badmedia]

hello there

I agree, that is what i said in my post

i wrote

....ot to make anyone upset but i belive this has in the past and still does include the RCC. A note of caution for Christians this must now include many a protestant church as they clearly are leading people away from Gods word.

all the best

david