Homosexual Analogy

A frequent argument for the legitimacy of homosexuality, is that you cannot CHOOSE to be homosexual.

The argument lies in the false premise that you because you CANNOT CHOOSE to be heterosexual, you therefor, CANNOT CHOOSE to be Homosexual...


This however, if flawed



For example,

A person is born, not a murderer.
That is the default/normal state
Being a Murderer, or, STAYING a non-murderer, is the CHOICE we make in our lives.


At a certain point in your life, you CHOOSE to be a murderer, and in eguage in acts of Murder.


You can replace the word Murderer, and the act of murder, with something else...


You are born being heterosexual...
Men with women
Women with men

It is not a bold idea... i mean... the pieces just fit that way...


I must stress now, that i have made my point.
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want, as long as you do not harm others.

You can choose to:
Smoke
Drink alchohal
Do drugs
Engage in sexual devience



You want to hurt yourself, that is fine... But DO NOT, say that it is normal, or healthy...

If you want to make these choices, and do these things that can potentionly hurt you, go ahead...


But, do not expect people to accept that you do this...
AND NEVER, try to tell people that it is healthy/normal


It is a CHOICE that YOU PERSONALY make, that is up to your free will, protected by the US Constitution...

You get the liberty of free will...


Use it

Do NOT ever tread on the Footsteps that lead to the ideology of forcing ideologies onto those that do not endorse them... If you set a precendent for that behavior, imagine what they will do when they get the power...

[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

So... Homosexuals are the same as serial killers...

Flawless logic is flawless.

reply to post by TheSavageTesla


It is nearly impossible to combat such ignorant stupidity without using very bad language, so I wont even try.

You have clearly destroyed your own credibility.
No intelligent person need do so.

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
A frequent argument... ...
I must stress now, that i have made my point.
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want, as long as you do not harm others.

You can choose to:
Smoke
Drink alchohal
Do drugs
Engage in sexual devience



You want to hurt yourself, that is fine... But DO NOT, say that it is normal, or healthy...

If you want to make these choices, and do these things that can potentionly hurt you, go ahead...


But, do not expect people to accept that you do this...
AND NEVER, try to tell people that it is healthy/normal


It is a CHOICE that YOU PERSONALY make, that is up to your free will, protected by the US Constitution...

You get the liberty of free will...

[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

How does the US constitution permit doing drugs? Just wondering.

reply to post by eNumbra


You missed every point...

i went from:

A->B
B->C



and so on all the way to Z, and then put all the pieces together, and you are still stuck on what A->B is...



Change it from Murderer to Race Car Driver...

Or Scuba Diver


Or Nun

Or astronut...



I am sorry if reading that the only thing that came to your mind is

"Homosexuals are serial killers"

Ill do a simple one for you...


You are born with BROWN hair...


You can CHOOSE to make your HAIR a DIFFRENT color...


You are BORN one way, and CHOOSE to go another...

Try one for yourself...

How does the US constitution permit doing drugs? Just wondering.

Word by Word it does not say that, but more importantly, it does not DIRECTLY state that...

And, furthermore, Substance laws are decided by governments...
Constitutional arguments would go to the Amendment of the Abolishment of Alchohal, and then the Amendment to undo the Prior Amendment...


So... To me...
That is more of a Argument AGAINST government control of Substances, then FOR it...

In my PERSONAL opinion, i think that these, as most, issues should be solved on a Direct local vote.

Now... No more on that question i hope

[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
Do NOT ever tread on the Footsteps that lead to the ideology of forcing ideologies onto those that do not endorse them... If you set a precendent for that behavior, imagine what they will do when they get the power...
[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

This advice might have found better use if it were dispensed to the religious majority.

Why does it really matter to you weather a person is Homosexual or not?
Why are you wasting time thinking about it?

The only reason I can think of is that you are trying to differentiate in order to create walls and distance between yourself from those people you perceive yourself to be better than and build yourself up.

Why search for differences?
When you search for differences rather than similarities you are begging to create enmity.

Or have you been appointed to judge others (divinely perhaps)???

You do realize that there is no evidence either for nor against the assumption you have made, that homosexuality is a choice. That statement is merely your assumption.
You really didn't make any headway in your argument.
Actually your whole argument is flawed, it is a non sequitur.

P.S.
I am not gay, and I also believe it is initially a choice.
However, I say believe, as I am not explicitly positive, and I find it difficult to take a position that cannot be confirmed in my mind to be either entirely based on evidence or on opinion.

Neither evidence nor opinion apply here and I really don't think it would alter my opinion on homosexual individuals.

There are enough factors in this world attempting to cause descent between individuals, why go to the trouble of trying to argue one more?

May God have mercy on the souls of those who hate in ignorance

Hi TheSalvageTelsa,

You do have the right to express your opinion - and here is my opinion in response to yours, and it has to do with choices:

Choice 1 - I choose to reassure those who are homosexual that your opinion was expressed sincerely, but by a rather half-conscious mind.

Choice 2 - You are one person I would choose not to be in the same room with, for fear of being overwhelmed by vexation, disgust and pity for such a half-conscious (albeit, sentient) being like you.

I discourage you from posting any more messages to explain your abovementioned opinion or deconstruct your logic, because if it is your intelligence that you are trying demonstrate, it is only symptoms of utter stupidity that are indicated.

My advice to you? Listen and read more, talk/write less. Be open to learning from those who may be more intelligent than you, and some of them might even be homosexual.

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
At a certain point in your life, you CHOOSE to be a murderer, and in eguage in acts of Murder.


You can replace the word Murderer, and the act of murder, with something else...


You are born being heterosexual...

Okay sugar drawers, I'll bite. How do you know this? Where's your evidence?

Let me guess. One day when you were nine you woke up and suddenly certain girls are a little more funny, a little more clever, and just more fun to be around, and you couldn't explain why. By eleven you're watching scrambled playboy hoping for a glimpse of boobie while you wack your bag.

So how do you know that due to slight differences some people have the same reaction to their own sex? Their are millions of gay people that say this is the case, but you know better?

Look, I'ver posted plenty of evidence supporting my case, and I have to work OT today so I can't completely shoot your nonsense down. You could look into my post history, or, even better, just use google and look up identical twins and homosexuality.

Here's a hint, there's a big genetic component to "teh ghay."

If you want to make these choices, and do these things that can potentionly hurt you, go ahead...

Stop it, butt sex is only slightly riskier than vaginal, and if you throw in monogamy and condoms, it's not... PLUS, many heteros have the butt sex, so shut your face with that "hurt yourself" nonsense.

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
Do NOT ever tread on the Footsteps that lead to the ideology of forcing ideologies onto those that do not endorse them... If you set a precendent for that behavior, imagine what they will do when they get the power...
[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

Yes, I see, so I'm not supposed to tell you that homosexuality is normal.
However, it is ok for you to tell me that homosexuality is not normal?

But by your logic, we're not supposed to force ideologies onto those who do not endorse them. So since I don't endorse the ideology that homosexuality is a choice, then you just argued against yourself. Thanks.

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
reply to post by eNumbra

 

Ill do a simple one for you...


You are born with BROWN hair...


You can CHOOSE to make your HAIR a DIFFRENT color...


You are BORN one way, and CHOOSE to go another...

Try one for yourself...

[edit on 12/27/2008 by TheSavageTesla]

Bona fide genius.

Do you realize how ridiculous your comparison of hair colors to sexuality is? or are you that ignorant?

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by TheSavageTesla

 

It is nearly impossible to combat such ignorant stupidity without using very bad language, so I wont even try.

You have clearly destroyed your own credibility.
No intelligent person need do so.

I agree 100%!

Myself - no... I wouldnt even waste my time to check back on the likes of this ignorance.

reply to post by TheSavageTesla


THE MIRROR SAYS...

A frequent argument for the legitimacy of heterosexuality, is that you cannot CHOOSE to be heterosexual.

The argument lies in the false premise that you because you CANNOT CHOOSE to be homosexual, you therefore, CANNOT CHOOSE to be Heterosexual...


This however, if flawed



For example,

A person is born, not a vegetarian.
That is the default/normal state
Being a vegetarian, or, STAYING a non-vegetarian, is the CHOICE we make in our lives.


At a certain point in your life, you CHOOSE to be a vegetarian, and in eguage in acts of vegetarianism.


You can replace the word Vegetarian, and the act of vegetarianism, with something else...


You are born being homoosexual...
Men with men
Women with women

It is not a bold idea... i mean... the pieces just fit that way...


I must stress now, that i have made my point.
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want, as long as you do not harm others.

You can choose to:
Smoke
Drink alchohal
Do drugs
Engage in sexual pleasure
Use correct spelling


You want to enjoy yourself, that is fine... But DO NOT, say that it is normal, or healthy...

If you want to make these choices, and do these things that can potentionly cause you pleasure and happiness you, go ahead...


But, do not expect people to accept that you do this...
AND NEVER, try to tell people that it is fun


It is a CHOICE that YOU PERSONALY make, that is up to your free will(y), protected by the US Constitution...

You get the liberty of free will...


Use it

Do NOT ever tread on the Footsteps that lead to the ideology of forcing ideologies onto those that do not endorse them... If you set a precendent for that behavior, imagine what they will do when they get the power...

[edit on 27-12-2008 by machinegun_go_go]

reply to post by TheSavageTesla

How many damn times to I have to say this? Homosexuality has nothing to do with actions, it deals with being/feelings. You don't choose what you like. You can choose to murder someone, because it is an action.

There are only two categories of sexual encounter; either

A. Consenting

B. Non-consenting

Category B, whether it is heterosex, homosex, or anything else, is rape by definition.

Category A is a CHOICE the participants make.

A person is responsible for the sex they choose to perform. The whole argument that "no one is born gay" misses the point entirely. You are only as gay, or as straight, as your last encounter. You choose what you are going to be, every time you have sex or abstain.

People are not robots. They may feel different urges, but they CHOOSE how they will respond to those urges.

Self controle is always a choise. the point is not if it is a choise or not it is if it should be socaily excepted. I LOVE smokeing urb. it is a choice and i wish it wasn't hated by many. go ahead and say it kills brain cells it still is what makes me happy/ destracted from the stupid #.
Also i hate to say it but you deside to have a relationship. you can always deside to be alone.
people suck anyways.

I personally don't give a rat's # if someone chooses to be gay or is born that way. Do whatever you want as long as it's not hurting anyone. Why would anyone choose to be gay when it's so unacceptable to so many?

i got something eles i should have said the first time and i thought i should start all over.
First. you had no really point to your post except to provoke, and if you did you did not convay your messige at all. Hosexuallty is not a discoutional peace. It is useally a subject used by the govenmaent to guide the fullish to ther side.
Second. The fact that the governmaent has enter in the matter of marrige is agains the the seperation of church and state. The idea of freedom of realigion, I D E A L S, what we believe as individuals. ( i myself say it is quite hipocritical to say freedom of religion and have laws in the same government when religions is an old for of government put in place to controle the masses with fear., but whatev )
AND third, Are you homosexual? And if your not why is it a topic of convosation it you? It has nothing to do with you. Maybe the people who talk about it and get in the way of other peoples freedom should just butt out.
Thats all i had to say. and that is only what i think

Thank you for the respones that stemmed from honest inquesition. I will answer all questions, the best i can.


Sunset,
Now... Im not sure what Sugar Drawers means... Ill take it as a complimnt... and just think that you said i am sweet in the pants... i am taking this the right way?

As for evidence of being BORN into HeteroSexuality.

Suppose you have a population of two hetrosexual humans, of the oppisete sex. This is Sit. 1.
And a similar population of two, with 2 heterosexual humans of the same sex. This is Sit. 2.


Under which circumstance are the prerequisetes of human survial, with the information given, possible? 1 or 2?


That should give evidence to which is the Natural/Default/Born/Pure State of Human existence is.




Now, you mention that YOU BELIVE that there is a genetic factor to homosexuality.

This is something that SHOULD be able to be proven with simple tests, and, according to all research i have seen, there is no identifiable genetic marker for homosexuality.

IF, and that is a very BIG IF, the genetic marker is ever found, that DOES determine sexual orentation, then, that will open up en ENTIRE new spectrum of disscusion.
But this is not a disscusion about Genetic Engernering.




And you also seem to say, without directly saying so, that anal sex is not dangrous.

Every piece of evidence suggests otherwise, from ACTUAL reported physical injuries, to Phisological diffrences in the Membranes.
Both of which are pretty big violations of the T&C, so all i can say is this, there are INHERENT diferences in the membrane structure of the vaginal and anal cavities.

One is a ONE-WAY organ that designed to expunge the harmful/wasteful/compents that cannot leave the body thruough fluids, this organ is found in both Males and Females. This organ is made of a very thin membrane that is not designed to take direct pounding/presure/or contact from an external force.

The other organ is limited to females, and is a multi-purposed organ. That contains the male equilivent for having harmful fluids leave the body, but this is where the similarites end. Also housed are the human mechnisms, for the female role in reproduction, and the part of the body that developes the human, from conception to birth. This organs membrane is 1000's to millions times more strong then the other membrane we are talking about here. This membrane is designed to receive the impact and trama that is associated with intercourse.


You must see that it is dependent on the Physical Structure of the membrane. The above is my summed up explination. I cannot link you to the ACTUAL medical documents, cause that would be against the T&C. So if this is confusing, google, "anatomy of a human" and search for these organs.



MachineGun...
Yes...

Vegitarian works perfectly. you get a 10/10 for your respone.

And i guess i could CHOOSE to spell correctly... but that would ASSUME that i KNOW what the correct spelling is... which brings to question something else...

Because i DO NOT KNOW how to spell correctly, i CANNOT do do...
Because most people DO NOT KNOW the Physical/Medical/Natural definations, and dangers of homosexuality, how can they correctly make the choice...

Thank you for putting this idea into the Conciousness of my mind... This is something i will Think about... Information goes hand in had with choices...



"You don't choose what you like."

This is true... But, i do not think we can say that we are born GENETICLY with a chart of what we WILL and WILL NOT like in our life... From a technical point, its no impossible however improbalbe...
IF the Genetic Data for why i do not like Chocolate Ice Cream comes out... then thats one thing...


Flyindevil...

Explain to me, what "Homosexuality" without refrence to sex or love or feelings...

Originally posted by TheSavageTesla
You are born being heterosexual...

Says who? Sounds like you have ZERO knowledge of human psychology.

Thanks for trying to spread ignorance!