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What does matter is how we conduct ourselves within that lifestyle. And that is one of integrity and honour. Where we are kind to people, are in service and do our upmost to be a source of love on a planet that is badly in need of it.
Originally posted by Mr Gunter
Humans have needed to procreate in order to survive - this has a lot to do with why 'gays' are despised so much.
For thousands of years, we've needed to breed more humans in order to defend our land.
Being 'gay' has meant that you're not making the species or country stronger - therefore liable to attack from superior forces.
War has been a common element of our existence. Wars whose tactics has been roundly based upon sheer numerical advantages; i.e., our army is bigger than yours, therefore we win.
A lot of people live in the past. Hence the hatred of gays.
The hatred of gays is a dying thing.
Originally posted by Jezus
...but in modern times most homophobic people are repressed homosexuals.
Experiments have found that the majority of people "against" gays are aroused by the same sex.
Their anger comes from self hate. It sucks to be hated by other people, but to hate yourself is hell.
[edit on 26-12-2008 by Jezus]
Originally posted by sir_chancealot
So, people that are against car thieves want to steal a car? People who are against rapists actually want to rape? People who are against pedophiles want to molest children?
..
Originally posted by tac109
All I have to say is that im not against gays, I am however against a small minority of people trying to change the way the majority of people live. I would have no problems living next door to a gay person, I would have no problem enviting them over for a BBQ, but dont try and push your ways onto me or my family, dont try to get my kids to read a book where the prince falls in love with a prince. If your gay, thats cool, live your life how you want but dont try to change things in my life.
Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Anonymous ATS
Ridiculous! The title of marriage SHOULD be given to same sex couples because that's exactly what they would be: married. Atheists get married and are allowed to have the title, so saying the religion has to do with it is plain nonsense.
Here's the thing: If you believe that same sex marriage is wrong, don't have a same sex marriage. If you believe it will get you into hell, well then that saves you a little more room in heaven now doesn't it? It shouldn't be up to ANYONE to determine whether or not same sex marriage is "right" or "wrong"; however, same sex couples should have the right to be married.
Bad argument No. 1
"Gay marriage is a basic human right."
There are huge differences between constitutional rights with few restrictions (such as the rights to life or free speech) and other rights with important restrictions, which do not carry the right of universal access. We already recognize that not everyone has the right to enlist in the army, but that one must be of the proper age, physical condition, citizenship, and philosophy—anarchists and pacifists need not apply. We also agree that certain persons do not have the right to marriage—children, multiple partners, family members, and those already married.
Bad argument No. 2
"Gay marriage is a civil right."
This is based on the false assumption that homosexuality is the same sort of human difference as race. But while the difference between sexual orientations is profound (one desires the opposite sex and procreates while the other does neither), racial difference has no intrinsic bearing on love and marriage. This is why philosophically opposed African American leaders such as Shelby Steele and Jesse Jackson agree that "gay marriage is simply not a civil rights issue."
Bad argument No. 3
"Opposition to gay marriage is discrimination."
Let's not mistake rational restriction for unconstitutional discrimination. Just as we rightly restrict marriage against polygamists, there is no constitutional reason why we cannot continue to restrict marriage to what all civilizations have defined for millennia: the union of a man and woman. This does not deny anyone the "equal protection of the laws," since this restriction applies equally to every individual.
Bad argument No. 4
"Marriage has changed through the centuries, so gay marriage would be just another development in its ever-changing definition."
True, our understandings of sex and the role of women in marriage have grown. While these changes are important, they are trivial when compared to the agreement across time and from East to West that the social institution of marriage is about the union of sexual opposites for, primarily, the procreation of children, as well as intimate companionship.
Bad argument No. 5
"Opposition to gay marriage is a violation of the separation of church and state."
It is true that Western marriage and family law stem in part from the Judeo-Christian tradition, as do many of our other laws. But the separation of church and state (assured by constitutional law) is different from the enforced separation of religion and politics, which is forbidden by the First Amendment.
Bad argument No. 6
"Marriage is necessary for gays to gain important legal benefits."
Homosexuals don't need marriage to gain most significant legal benefits. For example, hospital visitation depends on the wishes of the patient. If families disagree about medical treatment, even marriage won't solve the problem, as the Terry Schiavo case has demonstrated. The answer is medical power of attorney, which is open to anyone regardless of sexual orientation. Another example is Social Security benefits. Children's benefits are not dependent on the marital status of their parents, and the only certain benefit is a one-time death benefit of $255. A wife can access her deceased husband's Social Security, but if she has had her own work history, her Social Security benefit would usually be higher than the survivor's benefit—and she must choose one or the other. Most other benefits are based on work history.
Bad argument No. 7
"There is no proof that gay marriage would change the marriages of heterosexuals."
If marriage is all about fulfilling human desires and not parenting (as many proponents of gay marriage argue), it makes sense to dissolve marriages that don't seem fulfilling. Recent experience in Scandinavia suggests that when a society reduces marriage to this minimalist definition, families dissolve more quickly. British demographer Kathleen Kiernan has shown that since gay marriage came to Scandinavia in the early '90s, the out-of-wedlock birthrate has leaped significantly, and the family dissolution rate has risen. Only where the gay marriage movement had little success has the out-of-wedlock birthrate remained low. Marriage has virtually disappeared in the most gay-friendly districts of Norway, formerly the most conservative of the Nordic countries.
Bad argument No. 8
"Social science shows that gay parenting is no different from heterosexual parenting."
Many studies have claimed this, but, according to University of Chicago's emeritus professor of ethics and social sciences Don Browning, none of these studies was rigorous or large-scale. Stephen Nock, scholar of marriage at the University of Virginia, writes that every study on the subject of gay parenting "contained at least one fatal flaw," and "not a single one was conducted according to generally accepted standards of scientific research." Other studies show that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, had homosexual experiences more frequently, and suffered a greater rate of molestation by members of their families (Adolescence, 1996; Archives of Sexual Behavior, 1986; American Sociological Review, 2001).
Bad argument No. 9
"The fact that many married couples do not have children proves that marriage is not intrinsically related to procreation."
Yet the fact remains that most married couples either have had or will have children. The exceptions prove the rule: Being married tends to prevent a person from having a child with someone other than his or her spouse. In all cultures, even if some couples are childless, marriage as an institution is principally concerned with children and, therefore, society's future.
Bad argument No. 10
"Heterosexuals have done a terrible job at marriage. Who are they to speak?"
It is true that half of all new heterosexual marriages end in divorce. But far more than half have succeeded, if you count marriages established before the divorce boom of the '70s and '80s. Yet the point is not how many are successful, but what marriage means. To accommodate gays, marriage would have to change into something it has never been: an institution for same-sex love without the biological possibility for children. It will probably not require sexual fidelity, which even the majority of unfaithful heterosexuals have conceded is the ideal. Some of the most prominent proponents of gay marriage, such as Andrew Sullivan, say the ideal needs to change, since gay understanding of fidelity includes other sexual liaisons.
Bad argument No. 11
"The resistance to gay marriage is motivated by fear and loathing for homosexuals."
While no large group is free of hate-mongers, the vast majority resist because they strongly believe in the positive features of traditional marriage. They have experienced the benefits of the lifelong union of two persons who are complementary in many important ways—biological, psychological, temperamental, and spiritual—and who, because of this complementarity, have a unique capacity to bear and nurture children. It is appreciation for the unparalleled success of this complementarity—not fear or hatred for gays—that motivates most Americans to oppose gay marriage.
Bad argument No. 12
"Those who resist gay marriage are irrational, Neanderthal, and bigoted."
The gay marriage movement is only a few decades old. Could it be that billions of people who for millennia upheld traditional marriage were really irrational and bigoted? On the contrary, we would argue that a common-sense understanding of life leads in the direction we have argued. Further, it seems clear that reason without religious vision misses the depth dimension of human life. It tends to dissolve basic human institutions into contracts between persons who make whatever they want of them, to the detriment of children and society.
Bad argument No. 13
"The legal issue of gay marriage ought to be left up to the states."
Quite the opposite, we need a national definition of marriage. Without a public definition embodied in a constitutional amendment, activist judges at various levels will undo the conviction of the vast majority of Americans. Some already have, in defiance of state defense-of-marriage acts. Precedent for a national definition is ample—the federal government outlawed polygamy in the 19th century and the Supreme Court has ruled in the 20th century on many cases regarding marriage.
In sum, there are many bad reasons for supporting gay marriage. In contrast, there are many good reasons for protecting historic understandings of marriage, a public institution whose fate will determine the future of our society.
Originally posted by misuneko
reply to post by BO XIAN
OMG....
I have never heard of something so bitter....
Humans, sleep around regardless of sexual oriantation. FACT
Humans spread diease around regardless of sexual orination. FACT
Humans hurt eachother regardless of sexual orination. FACT
I see no difference in comparing Gays to Straights as they are both the same when you actually look at the differences. Other than procreation there is no other difference. And a Human can procreate regardless of Sexual Orination if they desire to. (as long as they do not have any medical reason why they cant.)
* Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting.
* Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior".
* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years.
* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States. They make up only 1-2% of the population.
* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus.
*the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals".
* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us
* Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne.
* 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism.
* 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs.
* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75.
* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor.
* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age.
Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality".
www.massresistance.org...
Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Originally posted by Jezus
...but in modern times most homophobic people are repressed homosexuals.
Experiments have found that the majority of people "against" gays are aroused by the same sex.
Their anger comes from self hate. It sucks to be hated by other people, but to hate yourself is hell.
[edit on 26-12-2008 by Jezus]
So, people that are against car thieves want to steal a car? People who are against rapists actually want to rape? People who are against pedophiles want to molest children? Your supposition is a non-sequitur if there ever was one.
Most "normal" people are against gays because, in ALL societies, throughout ALL of history, gays are not content to just be left alone. They have, again historically, and in modern times, wanted people to say that being homosexual was ok, and to teach their kids that it was ok, and just another "choice" in life.
When the Boy Scouts wanted to exclude homosexuals from being Scout Masters, did the homosexuals say "Fine, we will start our own form of Boy Scouts, and show you that you are wrong"? No, they filed suit and all kinds of things to make it "accepted" amongst a group that had no intention or desire to accept it.
And you wonder why so many people come to resent gays? Homosexuals want to teach kids as young as kindergartners that it's "ok" to HAVE SEX with someone of the same gender. This, at a time when kids of those age think the opposite sex has "cooties".
And you wonder why so many people are against gays?
I'll tell you this: I could care less who my neighbor is boinking. But, if he tried to tell my child that a homosexual "relationship" was normal, then we'd most certainly have words. Leave me alone, and I leave you alone is my motto. This, most homosexuals do not do. They seem to demand that everyone accept their choice as "normal" and "right".
To the person I quoted: What does your pop-psychology say about a group of people that want everyone to think like them, with no dissent allowed?
Originally posted by Jezus
Originally posted by sir_chancealot
So, people that are against car thieves want to steal a car? People who are against rapists actually want to rape? People who are against pedophiles want to molest children?
That is seriously the dumbest thing I have ever read on this website...
Most homophobes are gay, sorry but it is true. They feel intense shame because of their own personal beliefs and they direct this hate onto other people.
Most Homophobes are Gay
www.ipce.info...
Top Five Republican Gay Sex Scandals
www.badmouth.net...
Gore Vidal discusses a 1996 study on homophobia, which revealed that homophobic males were aroused by gay porn, while non-homophobes were not.
findingthefilth.blogspot.com...
New research by U.S. psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings.
rosecottage.me.uk...
Southern Baptist leader arrested for soliciting male cop
www.washblade.com...
Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by Aermacchi
That thing was probably written by a gay person.
Originally posted by Jezus
Originally posted by sir_chancealot
So, people that are against car thieves want to steal a car? People who are against rapists actually want to rape? People who are against pedophiles want to molest children?
That is seriously the dumbest thing I have ever read on this website...
Most homophobes are gay, sorry but it is true. They feel intense shame because of their own personal beliefs and they direct this hate onto other people.
Most Homophobes are Gay
www.ipce.info...
Top Five Republican Gay Sex Scandals
www.badmouth.net...
Gore Vidal discusses a 1996 study on homophobia, which revealed that homophobic males were aroused by gay porn, while non-homophobes were not.
findingthefilth.blogspot.com...
New research by U.S. psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings.
rosecottage.me.uk...
Southern Baptist leader arrested for soliciting male cop
www.washblade.com...
Originally posted by Aermacchi
You mean like your post was written by a gay person who thinks everyone writing negative info about gay people is another gay person having issues, kinda person?
Originally posted by BlasteR
It is a travesty that gay people are not given equal rights as other American citizens on the simple basis of sexual preference. People don't just decide one day to be gay. It happens naturally..
Originally posted by Jezus
Originally posted by Aermacchi
You mean like your post was written by a gay person who thinks everyone writing negative info about gay people is another gay person having issues, kinda person?
Well I'm just going with probability.
and I'm not gay, I just agree with this...
Originally posted by BlasteR
It is a travesty that gay people are not given equal rights as other American citizens on the simple basis of sexual preference. People don't just decide one day to be gay. It happens naturally..
yeah narcolepsy epilepsy both happen naturally too but that doesn't mean they should allow them to have the right to drive a car.
It's simply a bad argument and facts that I posted above are so many that to ignore ALL of them is just ignorant. On the basis of equal rights their arguments they are not being treated equally is bunk! In Fact for the most part, they are nothing but a small segment we are bending over backwards to placate JUST to get them to stop whining.
it is the whining and the idea they have a bigger say than the majority when they are the minority I take issue with. Who they wanna boink and what they wanna do at home i couldn't care less but like so many others have said here THAT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH. They want to be treated SPECIAL not EQUAL but SPECIAL.
Well they ain't special and any gay guy is allowed to marry anyone of the opposite sex they want just like the rest of us have to do. You open up a whole can of worms making it about sexual prefernce and if you can't see how that will be the final nail in the institution of marriage, just wait till the ACLU starts suing the States where bisexuals want to be married in groups which will bring about polygamy making THAT an issue or people who are A-Sexual wanting to marry themslves. Think it won't go there? Think again as i am one who still thinks same sex marriage would never be an issue but it is.
It is a STUPID Idea and we will regret it like it has been where ever it has been allowed to happen.