Gays Ya or Na

The purpose of this is to find out for me and others why everyone thinks it is either wrong or right for
1) gays as a whole, their lifestyle(includes lez)
2) should be married

I am in part going to show my two different veiws, one from a science point and another from a Catholic point, considering im catholic and my morals are based on that.

Science;
The reason for marriage as we know it is to celebrate the joining of two people, in order to populate the earth. without sex the human race would most likely not be here as we know it, its the purpose of a man and woman over a lifetime to give birth to offspring so that future generations will live on, the species will prevail. Humans have very special emotions, which allow us to be attached to one 'lover' so that they are the only person we want to mate with, and have children with. we are not the only species that do this, elephants only have one mate, as well with dozens of others. Now if a gay relation ship was to take over in even half the population the species would slowly die off, violating natures purpose, hence not born gay. monkeys have known to masterbate and even have sex with same sex, but the same monkey also made sex with female over male when given a choice, for the reason he is programmed to populate the earth not just get sexual satisfaction. this is one of my reasons you cannot be born gay from a purely nature/science standpoint

Religion;
as being catholic or any christian for that matter or anyone who believes in the God as we know it, gay is a mortal sin, one that is so discusting God has destroyed the known world and a city because of it. If you believe in the christian God then you know you will never be born gay, for it violates the main fundemental reason God is God, he is perfect. We know that he made us in his image with freewill, now if he was to make us gay from birth with no choice it violates freewill, and secondly makes God a murderer. If he purposesly makes you gay then judges you on a act that you had no control over, then he has performed premeditated murder and in reaction he would no longer be perfect.

these are my two reasons, also for the religion part you might say God is all loving so gay must be right, God has to love you but he doesnt have to like you. As for us it is not for us to judge people, but it is in our power to not want to be with people that choose that lifestyle, as with some of my family, i love them, but because of their lifestyle i have asked them to stay out of my life

i believe why should gays get the same treatment as straights in terms of marriage, when the WHOLE purpose of marriage is to populate the earth, and to celebrate through a ceremony of who you have choosen to do so with, much like nature animals might do.

if you are not going to populate the earth and give rise to future generations why the hell are we going to give you the special privalages that go with such celebration?

these are my thoughts, plz give me yours

This subject has been beat to death on a dozen threads I suggest that you use the search

#1 - I have no problem with Gay's or their lifestyle.
#2 - If they want to get married then they should be able to.

OK that takes care of that.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Ocelot]

well..personally I think it is wrong to be "gay", and I don't really like it...but I also think it is up to them, and since we are in a free country, people should have the right to be gay, or have gay marriages if that is what they want to do...and Im fine with gay people as people, meaning I respect them just as much as anyone else, just not really their choices...so yea, I support gays even though morally I disagree

This subject has been covered many times. If you want to see other members thoughts I suggest you use the Search button just at the top there. ^

Old subject, but heres my points:

1) You use God as destroying a city because of it. If the city you refer to is the city he destroyed because they were SINNERS, it doesn't give specific examples. If it is another city, I don't know it. Anyways, in Christian fundamentals, I do not believe it says God hates people being gay. You are BORN gay, you have no choice. So, if this is true, and God doesn't create gays, then God would be void - which I do not believe. God creates homosexual people and heterosexual people. I am a devout Roman Catholic, and I see NOTHING wrong with being gay. However, you say that it goes AGAINST Christian fundamentals, in a sense, but it DOES contradict itself then. Wanna know another Christian fundamental? TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED - THE GOLDEN RULE. Now, if you know someone who is gay...would you hate him because it goes against Christian fundamentals? If you say yes, you have just sinned. Why? Because you aren't respecting him, and you have broken the golden rule. So, either way, at least according to you, you will sin. You either say being gay is OK, or you treat someone else bad..hmm. I don't believe in this. I know a few homosexual people, and, I treat them no differently than anyone else. I do not believe that God hates gays, since he CREATED them. Give me the verse please. My argument.

EDIT: Again, please give me the verse saying God destroyed gays in the Bible, thank you.

-wD

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by WeBDeviL]

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Old subject, but heres my points:

1) You use God as destroying a city because of it. If the city you refer to is the city he destroyed because they were SINNERS, it doesn't give specific examples. If it is another city, I don't know it. Anyways, in Christian fundamentals, I do not believe it says God hates people being gay. You are BORN gay, you have no choice. So, if this is true, and God doesn't create gays, then God would be void - which I do not believe. God creates homosexual people and heterosexual people. I am a devout Roman Catholic, and I see NOTHING wrong with being gay. However, you say that it goes AGAINST Christian fundamentals, in a sense, but it DOES contradict itself then. Wanna know another Christian fundamental? TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED - THE GOLDEN RULE. Now, if you know someone who is gay...would you hate him because it goes against Christian fundamentals? If you say yes, you have just sinned. Why? Because you aren't respecting him, and you have broken the golden rule. So, either way, at least according to you, you will sin. You either say being gay is OK, or you treat someone else bad..hmm. I don't believe in this. I know a few homosexual people, and, I treat them no differently than anyone else. I do not believe that God hates gays, since he CREATED them. Give me the verse please. My argument.

EDIT: Again, please give me the verse saying God destroyed gays in the Bible, thank you.

-wD

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by WeBDeviL]

i do not hate them but i do not believe in their life style, and why do you think they were sinners?

the flood was due in part because of sexual what? perversion, male with male femal with female and man/woman with animals....that is sexual perversion, i do not have the bible in front of me so i cannot quote the exact line...

but i do not hate, but i dont have to like either, i love them to death and will do anything for them when a time comes, but i do not approve of what they do

and if you are born gay then you have no choice and have commited a sin, you should know that, god created adam and eve not adam and steve.

but since he judged them on being sexual wrong in their actions, how could he if he made them that way to begin with? why because they had a choice, but if they were born gay, how could god be perfect, once again going back to premeditated murder...

As said this subject has been beaten to death in other posts, mine being one in PMP, and one in religon forum.

Anyways..
1. Why not? Animals can be gay, so obviously not against nature.
2. With a divorce rate of 52%, are straights really doing a good job of it?

1. I think the gay lifestyle is wrong and not healthy and i do think that there is something psychologically wrong.
Yet I understand people have the freedom to make wrong choices and i respect there choices even though they are wrong.

2.Im opposed to it being called marriage but it goin by another name and getting the same benefits im not too opposed to.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
1. Why not? Animals can be gay, so obviously not against nature.

JAmes this may sound bad but if you issolate all the gay people on there own island with everything they need to live i bet you they would only last 1 generation. How is that natural?

If you put 50 straight men and 50 straight women on an island how long will they last? 3-4 generations before birth defects kill them all. Also, why we worried about the next generation? Don't we have around 6.5 billion people? Sounds like enough to me.

sure to both why not. i just dont see why they should get special priviliages and # like that.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
If you put 50 straight men and 50 straight women on an island how long will they last? 3-4 generations before birth defects kill them all. Also, why we worried about the next generation? Don't we have around 6.5 billion people? Sounds like enough to me.

actually birth defects wont play a role, its been proven that the third seed does not affect, just a bro sis relationship does....

but even so, your saying its morally right to kill people purposely by making sure they cannot bread so to underpopulate the world?

wow talk about genecide....

and no homosexual is right in the nature world either, as i proved they are programmed to go off at a time, which is also why they masterbate, but when given a choice they choose the female, why? because they are programmed to populate

and im not opposed to them living together but how can they share the same things as a marriage when they will not contribute the same as a straight marriage...

and in nazi germany there was almost no homeless does that make his system right? saying that 50% of straights are devorced, well the baby boomers raised them, maybe we should go back to marriage at the ages of 14 like it was pre wwII

I definately agree with what others Shoktek and Quicksilver said. I do not in any way shape or form agree with homosexuality. It disgusts me. But I have no problem with gays as people. I know a couple of gay men (teens to adult) and I like them as people, even though I don't agree with their homosexuality.

As for where it says homosexuality is wrong in the Bible, many people provide text from Leviticus for explaination. But then people refute that argument because if we took everything from Leviticus literally we wouldnt be able to eat shellfish, we'd have slaves, etc. But there is a passage in the New Testament that deals with homosexuality being wrong, and I'll provide it for you here.

1 Corinthians 6
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Take that passage as you will; just as I will take it as I will.

ROMANS 1:27-32

AND LIKEWISE ALSO THE MEN, LEAVING THE NATURAL USE OF THE WOMAN, BURNED IN THEIR LUST ONE TOWARD ANOTHER; MEN WITH MEN WORKING THAT WHICH IS UNSEEMLY, AND RECEIVING IN THEMSELVES THAT RECOMPENCE OF THEIR ERROR WHICH WAS MEET.
AND EVEN AS THEY DID NOT LIKE TO RETAIN GOD IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE , GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO A RPROBATE MIND , TO DO THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE NOT CONVENIENT; BEING FILLED WITH ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS,FORNICATION,WICKEDNESS, COVETOUSNESS, MALICOUSNESS; FULL OF ENVY, MURDER,DEBATE, DECEIT, MALIGNITY; WHISPERERS,
BACKBITERS, HATERS OF GOD, DESPITEFUL, PROUD BOASTERS , INVENTORS OF EVIL THINGS, DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS,
WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, COVENANTBREAKERS, WIHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION, IMPLACABLE,UNMERCIFUL;
___________________________________________

HERE THAT?????? HOMO'S ARE W/OUT NATURAL AFFECTION AND UNMERCIFUL. THAT IS WHY THEY DONT NEED TO HAVE KIDS BECAUSE TRUTH BE KNOWN THEIR SEXUAL DESIRES WILL BE UPON THE KIDS AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER.

GOD ALSO SAID THAT THEY ARE DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS. I READ A STUDY ONE TIME THAT SAID 90% OF ALL HOMOSEXUALS EITHER HATED THEIR FATHER OR DID NOT HAVE A FATHER. IF THIS IS YOUR CASE? CHOOSE THE LORD AS YOUR FATHER, HE WILL NEVER LEAVE OR HATE YOU BUT YOU DO HAVE TO LIVE BY HIS RULES.

1ST CORINTHIANS 6:9
KNOW YE NOT THAT THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? BE NOT DECEIVED: NEITHER FORNICATORS, NOR IDOLATERS, NOR ADULTERERS, NOT EFFEMINATE, NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND
NOR THIEVES, NOR DRUNKARDS, NOR REVILERS, NOR EXTORTIONERS, SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

EFFEMINATE IS HOMOSEXUAL. IN OUR VERY BEING WE ALL KNOW THIS IS WRONG AND IF YOU CHOOSE THIS IT IS ALSO THE SAME AS IDOLATRY WHICH IS SERVING ANOTHER GOD.

JESUS SAID AS YOU JUDGE YOU WILL BE JUDGED. THIS IS A WARNING ON BEING UNFAIR BUT PAUL SAID IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CHRISTIAN TO JUDGE RIGHTOUSLY. HE SAID THE CHRISTIANS WERE GOING TO JUDGE THE ANGELS AND THE EVIL, HOW MUCH MORE THE THINGS OF THIS EARTH. ITS ALWAYS THE PERSON WHO SAYS "GOD SAYS NOT TO JUDGE" THAT NEEDS TO BE JUDGED IN TRUTH NOW!!! BETTER US CHRISTIANS DO IT KNOW THAN HAVE GOD JUDGE LATER.
OH,,AND FOR ALL YOU CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN ONCE SAVED ALLWAYS SAVED, YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ- HEBREWS 6:1-6 HEBREWS 10:26 AND 2ND PETER.
YOU GET ONE SHOT AT BEING A CHRISTIAN NOT TWO OR MORE.

STANDING STONE

Hey StandingStone, sorry to say this but people like you who post things like that actually make other Christians look bad. You need to calm down with the capslock so people can actually read what you have to say; capslock looks like you are "shouting" and/or just ranting.

Also, you come off in a very anti-gay/gay bashing manner. This should not be the language in a forum such as this; especially if you're trying to convey one side in an argument. Attacking your opposition is a good way to get people to ignore you.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Faisca]

Stone...

Please save it for bible class. The bible has no place in reality, politics, or truth. I know nothing, you know nothing, let's just accept that and try to see things for what they are instead of following what other people say or write in a book.

As for the issue at hand, it's been over killed in these forums. But an observation is once you start assigning right and wrong to issues such as this is when you start making mistakes. It is as it is, just accept that and move on.

Wow, quoting the bible. What about the part that tells you to kill people who work on sunday? Why don't you do that? Because the bible is bull#. I wouldn't use the pages as toilet paper in fear of it making me more dumb.

Originally posted by Faisca
Hey StandingStone, sorry to say this but people like you who post things like that actually make other Christians look bad.

I don't think he makes them look bad I think he is saying something that is taught to Christians in church, and what the church expects christians to believe. I know quite a few life long christians and although what he says seems extreme if you talk with serious christians about the matter and get them to open up about what they are taught and truly believe the will say the same thing he just did. Although it's a bit more subtile and reasonable sounding when they say it, but not a whole lot different as far as the actual christian belief goes.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wow, quoting the bible. What about the part that tells you to kill people who work on sunday? Why don't you do that? Because the bible is bull#. I wouldn't use the pages as toilet paper in fear of it making me more dumb.

WHY DONT YOU LOOK UP THE VERSE THAT SAYS TO KILL PEOPLE WHO WORK ON SUNDAY AND TELL ME WHERE ITS AT.

ITS BETTER TO READ THAN BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
Stone...

Please save it for bible class. The bible has no place in reality, politics, or truth. I know nothing, you know nothing, let's just accept that and try to see things for what they are instead of following what other people say or write in a book.

As for the issue at hand, it's been over killed in these forums. But an observation is once you start assigning right and wrong to issues such as this is when you start making mistakes. It is as it is, just accept that and move on.

I AM ANTI GAY, I DONT WANT ANYONE TO THINK CASUALLY ABOUT IT. DIDNT YOU READ THE VERSES, IF YOU CARED ABOUT YOUR KIDS OR FAMILY YOU WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO BE AROUND THEM SO WHY GIVE THEM SPACE W/ YOUR WORDS. I WOULDNT WANT TO KILL THEM OR ANYTHING BUT THEY ARE DANGEROUS NOT COOL.

IM ALWAYS THINKING OF OTHERS, THE CAPS LOCK IS SO NO ONE WILL MISS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. WHAT ARE YOU ON THIS BOARD FOR? TO BE PART OF THE CROWD?
I DONT MEAN THAT ANGRY LIKE. WHY IS IT WE CAN NOT GAY BASH(WHICH I AM NOT DOING) BUT ANYONE AND THERE DOG CAN CHRISTIAN BASH????