Questions for athiest

I can't worship someone who could torture people in fire for all eternity. A real human holocaust of billions.

Auctually you choose to go to hell, you won't beable to bare being with gof, so you will going on your on diong, God doesn't send you to hell , poeple send themselves to hell.

Oh, the passive punishment argument. Because Hell is a natural consequence of sin, this supposedly removes any moral responsibility from god. He warned us didn't he? That would work except for one thing. God created Hell and all the pain attributed to it. He is the one solely responsible for it. We are not responsible for this terrible place nor are we equipped to avoid its danger.

Ummm no satan created hell, wrong again. And he wants your soul, and he tempts you.

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Oh, the passive punishment argument. Because Hell is a natural consequence of sin, this supposedly removes any moral responsibility from god. He warned us didn't he? That would work except for one thing. God created Hell and all the pain attributed to it. He is the one solely responsible for it. We are not responsible for this terrible place nor are we equipped to avoid its danger.

That was well put. Throw the Omnipotent argument in there too.....and you have an intention.

Originally posted by infovacume
Ummm no satan created hell, wrong again. And he wants your soul, and he tempts you.

Read the bible. Satan did not create hell.


Isaiah 45:7, "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things"

If Satan created hell, that would mean that there is another all-knowing all powerful entity, meaning more than one god. That's polytheism.

This is why I love being agnostic.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Oh, the passive punishment argument. Because Hell is a natural consequence of sin, this supposedly removes any moral responsibility from god. He warned us didn't he? That would work except for one thing. God created Hell and all the pain attributed to it. He is the one solely responsible for it. We are not responsible for this terrible place nor are we equipped to avoid its danger.

That was well put. Throw the Omnipotent argument in there too.....and you have an intention.

I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Oh, the passive punishment argument. Because Hell is a natural consequence of sin, this supposedly removes any moral responsibility from god. He warned us didn't he? That would work except for one thing. God created Hell and all the pain attributed to it. He is the one solely responsible for it. We are not responsible for this terrible place nor are we equipped to avoid its danger.

That was well put. Throw the Omnipotent argument in there too.....and you have an intention.

I don't understand what you mean.

Seapeople is saying that this is God on trial, as in a murder case. If he created the insturment of death, and is all knowing, then he is guilty of creating people just so they can be punished. (My take on his comment)

Is there a God? I think it can be proven that something exists outside of this time domain. A cause for the effect that we call the universe.

Is this God the God of the Hebrews and Is his Son named Jesus? This is the part where faith comes into play.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by dbates]

Satan is not as powerful as God, but still very powerful. It's alot easier to creat Hell than Heaven or Earth.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Oh, the passive punishment argument. Because Hell is a natural consequence of sin, this supposedly removes any moral responsibility from god. He warned us didn't he? That would work except for one thing. God created Hell and all the pain attributed to it. He is the one solely responsible for it. We are not responsible for this terrible place nor are we equipped to avoid its danger.

That was well put. Throw the Omnipotent argument in there too.....and you have an intention.

I don't understand what you mean.

Seapeople is saying that this is God on trial, as in a murder case. If he created the insturment of death, and is all knowing, then he is guilty of creating people just so they can be punished. (My take on his comment)

Is there a God? I think it can be proven that something exists outside of this time domain. A cause for the effect that we call the universe.

Is this God the God of the Hebrews and Is his Son named Jesus? This is the part where faith comes into play.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by dbates]

Yes, that is what I meant. I apologize for not being clear. Thank you Dbates.

I will write it again in my own words. If God knows everything, past present, and future. Then He knows everyone of us, and every decision we will make. If go is all powerful, then he creates all (knowing ahead of time what will become of it because He knows the past present and future). This means that God must have been the creater of satan. If He did not directly create satan, then when He created the fallen angel that would become satan, He already knew that this would be satan. He already knew that a hell would need to be formed. That is if He wasn't directly responsible. Along with that, every time he created a human soul, He would have known ahead of time all of the choices that soul would make. Including the ones that would require hell as a punishment. If God is Omnipotent, then He created us with the intention of sending us into hell.

The only way to solve this problem (if thats what you choose to do), regarding our free will, is to rethink God. Maybe He doesn't know the future when it comes to our free will. Maybe a lot of things.

I think in alot of resects people miss understand what Hell is. Hell is where God is not. As bad as this world is already, God has not abandoned it yet...(he's the only good left in the world)

God didnt create Hell, he merely forfilled peoples and the devils choice to leave them alone.

Hell is where God leaves you totally. I can only imagine how extremely bad that must be.

I just want all of you to realize that one day NO ONE WILL HAVE AN EXCUSE. And no smart story will cutt any ice.

I firmly believe THERE's NO ATHEIST IN SHARK INFESTED WATERS.

Originally posted by OpusDei
I think in alot of resects people miss understand what Hell is. Hell is where God is not. As bad as this world is already, God has not abandoned it yet...(he's the only good left in the world)

God didnt create Hell, he merely forfilled peoples and the devils choice to leave them alone.

Hell is where God leaves you totally. I can only imagine how extremely bad that must be.

I just want all of you to realize that one day NO ONE WILL HAVE AN EXCUSE. And no smart story will cutt any ice.

I firmly believe THERE's NO ATHEIST IN SHARK INFESTED WATERS.

Thank you for giving us your interpretaion and opinion of what hell is. Remember, that you don't know that for sure. You were told somewhere along the line by a person. You were probably told a few different views of what hell is. That is the one YOU chose.

All of religion...IN EVERY ASPECT...is left up to an individuals choice. The final say comes from personal oppinion and not knowledge. Even if you based that in knowledge, you based in someone elses opinion.

Tell me where it is in the bible that it describes hell the same way you did......

To OpusDei-

Oh yes, God DID create Hell! Here is what the Bible says:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Who else would have the power, or the desire to create such a place? Satan would not want to create a place like that for himself!

SevenAngels

A God who puts people in hell forevah

See. thats why I have decided to not worship God..(the christian one) anymore

It makes me slightly angry when think I of the time when I actually was believing, I think of that I could have been stuck there until today. Believing in that I would go to heaven for the hard faith I performed.

But now I think I basically believed only because of fear for going to hell with torture and fires and all the stuff like that
I say, I feel that I have been manipulated by fear into belief. And that's what makes me a bit angry at religion.
haha my typing tells me i'm tired. sleepingtime now.

Originally posted by Seapeople
...2) I don't look for a way to disprove the existance of a god. I do though, like to bring forth many ideas and such to people who truly believe in god. Most christians do not know as much about the bible as I do, and I don't know that much at all to be honest. Yet, they preach to me like I am going to hell. They need to read their own book to find out some things. God is not the author of confusion (I Corinthians 14:33). Yet, the entire book is riddled with horrifying and troubling conflictions. Ask me for some any time you would like. One big one? The bases of christianity is Jesus had to die on the cross to save us from the sins of our ancestors...... Yet, it says in the bible a few times that god does not hold us accountable for that. Compare Exodus 20:5 with Ezekiel 18:20. There are several more examples of this one conflict.

3) I do strive to change your views. In certain ways. I don't want you to lose your faith, I want you to concede that there is no faith without questions. I want you to see the problems with your religion, and realize that its not in the institution, organization or book that God lies, but rather you. For instance, how can you understand or explain this: Compare John 1:18 with Exodus 33:11 Or Genesis 32:30.

[Edited on 4/10/2004 by Seapeople]

it is funny that you say these things as one of my christian friends had someone ask him these very things.
there are no contradictions in the bible.
at first sin was unforgiveable and you had to give sacrifices to God to make up for your sin.
then cam Jesus.
he was the Sacrifice for ALL.
it is your choice whether you accept this sacrifice or not to.

i will try to get the papers that my friend found about these to you guys.

Honestly, it is no coincedence that those questions were asked. They are real and valid. You say there are no contradictions in the bible. What do you define as a contradiction. There are little ones, subtle ones, blatant ones as pertaining to my definition. I honestly am not a bible scholar, but I do know alot about the bible as far as your average Joe is concerned.

You see, you are right in one thing. Those contradictions could all go away for me. The only catch is that people would have to be willing to accept that they exist in writing, but not message. Which they do not.

you forget to take these in context.
what about exodus 33:20?
These people were not necessarily speaking literally about seeing the face of God as no human could see Gods face and live

Originally posted by aldsar
it is funny that you say these things as one of my christian friends had someone ask him these very things.
there are no contradictions in the bible.
at first sin was unforgiveable and you had to give sacrifices to God to make up for your sin.
then cam Jesus.
he was the Sacrifice for ALL.
it is your choice whether you accept this sacrifice or not to.

Have you read the book of Isaiah? It plainly states that sin WAS FORGIVEABLE before jesus. All a person had to do was turn their heart to god to be forgiven. Sacrifices were never required either. Atleast That's what Jeremiah 7 says.
If you hold the view that jesus was the sacrifice for sins. Then I'd like to know how come jesus forgave sins BEFORE the cross (its in the NT). Also, How could god (in Isaiah) forgive sins before the cross if the purpose of the cross was to enable him to forgive your sins. That doesn't make sense.
As for the contradictions, I have a very long list of them.

send the contradictions then.
ill be happy to go over them.