Questions for athiest

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posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 11:51 PM
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This is an honest question I have for some of you. I say some of you in an attempt not to generalize all of you. I do not want to insult anyone. This is not my goal. That is not the way to be a good Christian. Which I try to be. Try being a important word there. Anyways I guess I will list the questions.


1. Has anything ever happened to you that resulted in you hating, or not liking religion? That could be linked to religion itself. For instance I find a lot of people that hate God/Jesus/religion/people of religious belief , have had a bad experience with religious people. Like having a strict father/mother shoving it down your throat. Maybe a Catholic school that was mean to you , or Crazy people that go about preaching God the wrong way.



2. What is with the Grasping a straws thing? I mean , I guess any question is a legitimate question, because its all about the eyes of the inquisitor, but some appear, at least to me, that you are looking for any possible way to disprove god and religion as a whole. Now I do fully realize that there many people that do the same on the side of Religion, but I am asking you. I know their reason, what about yours. I will give an example. And this is not meant to be any insult to the asker of this question. Someone asked a question along the lines of how Jesus got his DNA. Now, I can see, maybe, why he wanted to know this. But more or less I see that he was trying to ask an unanswerable question to try and prove the story of Christ is false. If I am wrong in my assumption, because I do know it is an assumption, than please forgive me. The problem is, is that many try to relate the laws that we are bound by to God, God is not bound by , Gravity, thermodynamics, the string theory, Genetics, and science as a whole.

You see there is kind of like a faith level index. Let me explain. God does not give any free tickets to heaven. If you have no faith in God, he will not show you something that with gain you free faith. Its is doubtful that god will ever appear on a atheist couch and say hello. Why? Cause you will then believe, and therefore Go to heaven and except his teachings. I am a Christian, and yet my faith is admittedly not up to where it should be. In theory, if I was the most faithful, obedient, follower of Christ and God. Then I would be able to see a lot of stuff. I would see miracles, demons, angels, I would hear God whisper in my ear. Why? Because those things would not increase my faith, you would have to truly believe those things to experience them, otherwise, they would dramatically increase your faith, and that is not what God want. Well Now that I have gotten off subject let me go back to my questions.


3. Why do some of you strive so hard to change our views. I mean one of the most prevalent sentences I have ever heard come out of an atheist mouth is I am tired of people trying to cram religion down my throat I am going to assume, you do not want people telling you your views on religion are wrong, so why would you do it to us. Is it because you think you are going to enlighten us, or free us, or that you are doing something good for us and we just dont know it? Just a question..



4. Lastly, why all the name calling B.S., or if not that, why all the implying of negative things. Why must we be; mindless, blind, stupid, bible thumping, bumbling idiots. What gives you this view? Is it the money hungry people on T.V. is it that nut jobs on the street saying we are all going to hell. What gives this perception, is it a run in you had with a Christian?


Look, again I have to say that I just truly want to know. I dont want to piss anyone off, I dont want to offend, or imply anything about anyone that is unfounded. If you think I have been mean or judgmental please forgive my arrogance. I did not intend to. This is just to help me be a little more informed on the views of others.



AF1

posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:06 AM
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1. Never had a bad experience with the church.

2. I had faith, but unanswered prayers speak volumes. If someone were to prove to me that god is real then I'd believe. So far there has been no real reason to believe.

3. I don't tend to push my beliefs on anyone. My family and some of my close friends don't even know I'm atheist. If they did I'm sure they would be the ones pushing their beliefs on me.

4. Same could be said for christians.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:21 AM
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Yes your right about tha name calling, and yet you assume your family will push its views on you.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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Note: I consider myself Agnostic, not athiest.
1. nothing bad ever happened to me or anyone I know concerning religion. I don't hate anyone, and I was raised in a moderatly religions family. Though the relgious hypocrits do bother me a bit.
2. Lol, I swear I'm the devils-advocate or something. I defend and argue against both beliefs. That's why I'm agnostic.
3. I never tried to change anyones views. I don't even tell people my beliefs. Believe it or not, people tend not to accept me once they learn my beliefs.
4. I've never called anyone a bible-thumper. If I've learned one thing in my life so far, it's that you can't argue agaist faith.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:36 AM
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I used to consider myself an atheist its, simply because i was brought up to be a logical and free minded person luckily and i had no reason to believe in god without evidence or go to church as i could do things that were better for me than sitting down for 2 hours listening to the bible and singing.
I now consider myself a spiritual person and i belive in god if your definition of god is all there is, but i dont belive in a man sitting in a robe with a white beard watching us lol.

In response to your questions i have never hated any religions i have let go of hate there is no point in it. Its illogical to hold onto negative emotions over something.

To your second question im a logical person i guess but i have gone from belieing in only proven laws like the ones that you mentioned to beliveing in things that i cant prove yet and i have still got to that velief through being an atheist and logical.

To answer your third question i used to challenge everyones views which was great for me as i learnt a great deal from it but now im willing to accept them things are what they are theres no point in complaining and only interfere if there is a problem between people for example a christian teacher giving a student in school a detention because he said awwww jesus christ or something , that is forcing ones beliefs onto another and that isnt a very good thing to do. I wouldent have a problem with people challening mine or others ideas as it could change there views or allow me to strengthen mine. I enjoy conversations challenging my beliefs a lot.

To your last question i dont name call i used to but only for a little harmless joke now and them, just because someone thinks you are something does not make them right and you wrong you are what you are to them and you are what you are to youself.

I hope i helped you out a bit.

[Edited on 11/09/1987 by Fitzpatrick]



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 10:24 AM
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1. No, not really anything that was personally done to me. I just see organized religion as a control structure and nothing more.


2. you are looking for any possible way to disprove god and religion as a whole.
I see it more as proving things as opposed to disproving them and I see no logical proof that a conscious god exists. I see human's needs for it to exist, but no absolute need.

God is not bound by , Gravity, thermodynamics, the string theory, Genetics, and science as a whole.
See the thing is that either this god that you speak of is inside existence (and thus bound by the laws of existence) or outside of existence (and can not manipulate the forces within because it is a closed system). Either way this 'god' can not be omnipotent and is not as many claim.

God does not give any free tickets to heaven. If you have no faith in God, he will not show you something that with gain you free faith.
And you know this how?

In theory, if I was the most faithful, obedient, follower of Christ and God. Then I would be able to see a lot of stuff. I would see miracles, demons, angels, I would hear God whisper in my ear.
I think that this is called schizophrania.

3.Why do some of you strive so hard to change our views.
I personally do not care, believe whatever you like. The funny thing is that I do not feel threatened by religion, but it seems as though many religious individuals feel threatened by all the logic against the existence of a god/gods.

4 Lastly, why all the name calling B.S., or if not that, why all the implying of negative things. Why must we be; mindless, blind, stupid, bible thumping, bumbling idiots. What gives you this view? Is it the money hungry people on T.V. is it that nut jobs on the street saying we are all going to hell. What gives this perception, is it a run in you had with a Christian?
IMHO To believe in something without proof is irrational. It is like believing in sock gnomes simply because there is a tradition of believing in sock gnomes.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 10:33 AM
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I think that this is called schizophrania.

Lol, I was told I have a light form of schizophrania. It's schizotypal or schizoid, one of those. But I'm still agnostic.

Jonna, you show a lot of logic, you are much better at saying these things than I am. Good job.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by joehayner
Jonna, you show a lot of logic, you are much better at saying these things than I am. Good job.


Thanks. Rereading my post I get the impression that I might be seen as a bit bitchy, but I hope that people do not see me as HAVING an additude problem. I simply AM an addittude problem.


The sides as I see them

Pro-religion--One of the main problems with arguing from this standpoint is emotion. Since religion involves faith in an unprovable entity, one's viewpoint is saturated with emotion and emotion will derail rational reasoning every time. Emotion can be a source of great power and motivation, but you can't debate things like nature and science effectively by using emotion.

Pro-spirituality--I cannot stress enough how spirituality and religion are two different things. Spirituality is a belief system that is realized through life experiences and so is different for every individual user. The strange thing is that there is a type of logic to this system as over time the belief is 'worked out' through personal experiences in a trial and error way. It is not a provable thing, but there is a rationale involved. Religion is a fixed structure where you are either 'in' or 'out' depending on ones servitude to specific ideas that are not your own nor are they provable. It is based on tradition and thus any modification is avoided at all cost. Questioning or reasoning (in any way other then those in charge) out the system is strictly forbidden as it threatens those fixed ideas. The only constant is change and when an idea/theory is not allowed to change then it becomes irrelevant and outdated in the changing world. To believe something simply for the sake of tradition involves little to no reasoning and thus debates using outdated ideas will use little to no current critical thinking. One thing that I have noticed debating with those whom are pro-spiritual/anti-religion is that, for the most part, these individuals seem to be more open to the possibility of different ideas possibly having validity. I believe that this is because their spirituality is always growing into itself; it is not a fixed idea, but one that has and is evolving.

Anti-religionYes, there are those that are vehemently against religion for the sake of being against religion and nothing more. The problem in debating from this side is the same that I had mentioned for pro-religion; it is often the emotion of hate or disgust for religion for some personal reason. This, like any emotion, taints logical reasoning.

Pro-reason---This usually covers science, logic, reason, cause and effect, etc. I dont think I really need to go into this too much. The pro-reason side of the argument should be devoid of unprovable personal beliefs, emotions and ego preferences (although it is tricky to separate them at times). The funny thing is that this side could just as easily be from the atheist or scientist or agnostic or spiritual individual as long as the topic is debated in a way as to have some sort of viable rationale backing it up. This cannot be of a ridged and fixed nature because even those who believe strictly in the natures of science realize that their laws are constantly being revised to better our understanding of said phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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Cool thanks for the feedback guys I greatly appreciate it.



posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 06:08 PM
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Well first of all I am not athiest at all, in fact I do believe in a creationary force or being. I have experienced Christianity first hand and found it to be very beurocratic and self centered (the organization not the people themselves, in fact there are many christians who are very good people). I dont like the fact that Christianity who's main character was Jesus never even wrote the doctrines, it was all interpreted by his followers and others (and as we know man has a tendancy to change things in order to suit their needs). And lastly I really am unnerved that many followers of the religion simply let the world fall apart, believing that Jesus will return and "God" will save us. But have they ever considered the fact that this may in fact be Hell, and that Jesus and "God" are not coming to save us because this is suppost to be a learning experience in order to ascend to the next level of enlightenment, or heaven?

Well now you know why I have a distaste for christianity. Another word, I actually admire Jesus, he was a good person who had a great soul. The fact that he never judged others and even forgave his enemies showed signs of a very enlightened person. However I think his original teachings have been been forgotten or ignored, and they have been manipulated to suit greed and corruption. Thats why I believe that Christians should by all means believe in what they want to, but I think that they should live their lives according to the examples Jesus set forth and not so much on the bible word for word.



posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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you are very correct, but things are changing. You really only see that sort of government religion in Catholic churches today. Not to offend anyone, many of my friends are catholic, but the smaller churches focus heaily on the was jesus preached and lived. Thanks for responding, and if big churches don't suit you , I might suggest a smaller one , that doesn't have a lot of members, it tends to be less watered down , and more personal.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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I have to say first off, that anyone who is an athiest can hold no more credibility than someone who believes in a god. You could never prove either.

I consider myself, like someone else earlier had described themself. Agnostic.

1) Yes, I have had bad experiences with religion. I had people shoving it down my throat. I also had a girl I loved more than anything turn her back on me because I would not become pentacotal, or however you spell that. The seperation that religion causes is astounding...as this girl told me she loved me more than anything in the world...stressing in the world.

2) I don't look for a way to disprove the existance of a god. I do though, like to bring forth many ideas and such to people who truly believe in god. Most christians do not know as much about the bible as I do, and I don't know that much at all to be honest. Yet, they preach to me like I am going to hell. They need to read their own book to find out some things. God is not the author of confusion (I Corinthians 14:33). Yet, the entire book is riddled with horrifying and troubling conflictions. Ask me for some any time you would like. One big one? The bases of christianity is Jesus had to die on the cross to save us from the sins of our ancestors...... Yet, it says in the bible a few times that god does not hold us accountable for that. Compare Exodus 20:5 with Ezekiel 18:20. There are several more examples of this one conflict.

3) I do strive to change your views. In certain ways. I don't want you to lose your faith, I want you to concede that there is no faith without questions. I want you to see the problems with your religion, and realize that its not in the institution, organization or book that God lies, but rather you. For instance, how can you understand or explain this: Compare John 1:18 with Exodus 33:11 Or Genesis 32:30.

4) Name calling, I cannot tell you how many times I have been called an athiest before. I am not foolish enough to consider myself that. How many times I have been told I am riding the devil piggy back to hell, I could not tell you for sure. Unsaved, I consider that an insult, especailly from people who lie to themselves about the Bible. Name calling goes both ways...and if you want to know the real truth, when you get to know someone, its the religious people and athiests (set belief systems) who truly harbor anger and hatred.






[Edited on 4/10/2004 by Seapeople]



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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I make it a rule never to argue about religion, it's ultimately pointless, we all have our own beliefs. I don't know what I am, religiously. I prefer science, but I'd be lying if I said I'd never begged god for help.

However, you want honest answers. As long as you don't want to argue the points with me, I'm happy to share my personal feelings.

None of this is an attack on religion. People can believe in aliens, god, weetabix, I don't care. These are just my opinions, I would never claim them to be correct, or force them on anybody.

Here goes.

1. Has anything ever happened to you that resulted in you hating, or not liking religion?

Yes, most of the killing in the world throughout history seems to be based on religious differences. Perhaps it's not religions fault, but to my limited knowlege it seems this way. Also, religions can seem intolerent, vengeful and full of damnation. Not nice.


2. What is with the Grasping a straws thing?

If you mean why do some people spend a lot of time and energy trying to disprove god, then I think it must be because they find the whole idea so preposterous. It really does bring out the strongest emotions in people, as it forms the core of thier beliefs.


3. Why do some of you strive so hard to change our views

Many of us don't. I used to let the Jehova's Witnesses in and spend hours debating thier logic with them. Later in life, I discovered that you religious types can be stick to your beliefs no matter what's thrown at you
and now I don't bother. I'm happy for you to believe in your god if you are happy for me to maintain my own beliefs.


4. Lastly, why all the name calling B.S.

I'm pretty sure it's not personal. The only analogy I can think of is that if somebody spent 30 years trying to convince you that the easter bunny was real, without ever offering any physical proof, you may start to get a bit jumpy. Also, not everybody is smart or polite. Religion brings up strong feelings in many people, I think it's to be expected.

$0.02

As I said above, none of this is an attack on religion, just my opinions. I have friends who are strongly religious and I seem to be in a church every few weeks for a wedding. For me religion is like rock climbing, it's not something I do personally, and I spend very little time thinking about it. I hope this offers some insight for you.


[Edited on 10-4-2004 by Zzub]



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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If you were never taught about a god in any way at all....from the bible, friends, family, church, etc. Would you still believe? Why? How could you if you never knew anything at all? .

It seems that I never get a valid response to this question.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by I See You
If you were never taught about a god in any way at all....from the bible, friends, family, church, etc. Would you still believe? Why? How could you if you never knew anything at all? .

It seems that I never get a valid response to this question.


I would argue that there are and have been many people who never knew anything of christianity. It would be harder these days, but I am sure it is true. What about children who never get old enough to "accept god" or be "born again"? There is no room or explanation for this in the bible...at least not one that addresses it directly. How can someone "Accept Christ As their savior and Lord" if they never knew of him.

Here comes the ol' "everyone is given an oppurtunity to know him" argument. I can here it now. Lets get one thing clear....according to the bible. All those people who truly do not know of Jesus will burn in hell. Wonderful..... How compasionate of god.....



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 01:56 AM
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Meh it doesn't say that, if you have never had the oppurtunity to hear about God/Jesus then you will be judged on your heart. Now on to the question....

Yes I would still believe.Excluding all the things I have seen. Why because to me it seems more logical. All through life in school we are taught evolution, big bang, blah blah blah. You see me , I questioned those things. And come to find out that there are plenty of giant holes in those. I have always thought something can not come from nothing , unless nothing is divine. And apparently something somewhere way down the line did come from nothing. On top of this I have seen to much stuff in my life not to beleive. It would be ignorant of me not to believe because I would be ignoring so much.



posted on Apr, 12 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by infovacume
Meh it doesn't say that, if you have never had the oppurtunity to hear about God/Jesus then you will be judged on your heart. Now on to the question...


That is what I like to refer to as an oppinion. One that is shared by some, and not shared by others...I wonder who is right.......



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 01:26 AM
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Well the people who don't share this opinion are incorrect, as it is in the bible. Its not a matter of opinion its a matter of fact.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by infovacume
Well the people who don't share this opinion are incorrect, as it is in the bible. Its not a matter of opinion its a matter of fact.


Ok, challenge number 2 for you. Im calling you out here too since you like to follow me around. I enjoy this. I will look in the bible to find you instances where it says that people who never have heard of God can't be saved. You will look in the bible to find contradicting instances. Are you ready? Let me know. Im up for this, how about you?



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by infovacume
Well the people who don't share this opinion are incorrect, as it is in the bible. Its not a matter of opinion its a matter of fact.


Ok, challenge number 2 for you. Im calling you out here too since you like to follow me around. I enjoy this. I will look in the bible to find you instances where it says that people who never have heard of God can't be saved. You will look in the bible to find contradicting instances. Are you ready? Let me know. Im up for this, how about you?


Sure whenever your ready, how about you give me you evidence first so I can go ahead and debunk it and have it all ready in 1 nice post for ya ok buddy.





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