It is really a shame what the unions have done for so long. They WERE a legitimate good force against the tyranny of big money, but after they found power, became corrupt themselves. The US takes in ten times the amount of money it spends on foreign goods. In other words, the creativity, the planning, the invention, the creation and marketing are all done here for around the world, and we simply by commodities and goods broght from or manufactured overseas. The problem is that not everyone can do those things. In fact, most can NOT. So they need jobs just making regular things. And since the rich are getting richer, the standard of living has been dropping in America now for a while. Because most of us are losing our jobs to overseas. If we had a representative government, they could protect us and our jobs. Did someone mention another revolution? I know I won't, and I don't even have a gun. But I think I would cheer on the sidelines. Maybe we could even dust off that ole' thing called the Constitution, and actually start following law.

This is not news.

If you will read Iacocca: An Autobiography,(came out in the late 1980s) he talks about that and many other things that were going on with Chrysler and UAW at the time that Lee Iacocca was trying to bail out Chrysler.

And that $1/year thing the auto execs are proposing today, he did that also in the 80s.

I'm surprised the auto execs didn't go to Washington with a plan when they initially went to DC.

the job banks are for when there is no work for them to do. when there is cutbacks in a plant the lowest senioritys are laid off first. if there is nothing avaliable at another plant then they are sent to the "job bank". when you are in the job bank you are required to report to your local union hall, sign in, and at that point they direct you to some community service that you MUST do in order to recieve your 95% pay. the "job banks" have been getting cleard out for the past 3 years. at my plant there is no more job bank. our union has givin up raises for the past 6 years. we have had a freeze on our COLA(cost of living allowance). we have givin up 1 weeks vacation a year.we have aggread to a 2 tier wage placement. where jobs are givin distinctions of "core" jobs and "non-core" jobs."non-core" jobs are only allowed to make the 14 dollars an hour. ALL new workers are being hired in at the 2nd tier wage of 14 dollars an hour. and these new hires will be assigned to 2nd tier jobs.now today our union was in a meeting where we are giving up more benefits and maybe some wages, because of the greed of the big industries.

people we need to stop letting the government turn us against ourselves. and fix the cause of all this mess, not the effect.in my opinion that cause would be the FEDERAL reserve in creating money out of thin air. then our government writing ious for said money in turn bringing down the value of our so lowly dollar. we need our government to start producing OUR own money that is actually backed by more then an IOU. i suggest you read up on executive order 11110. and bring our currency back to the USA and not the private owners of the FED!!!!

Whether they suck or not I will never buy from the big 3 ever again, no matter how much I like some of their models.

I still can not get over why we, tax payers, are now responsible for the bailout of private companies. I dont feel congress nor the president ever works in my favor. Never have. Never will.

We should now at least get huge discounts to buy from them.

Originally posted by inked up
Whether they suck or not I will never buy from the big 3 ever again, no matter how much I like some of their models.

Well then, in many parts of the country, you are putting your neighbour out of work. A big-3 job generates income that is spread out through the community. As far as the unions go, they also raise the bar on worker benefits in other sectors. Like they say, Unions...the folks that brought you the 5 day work week.

The job bank is the price that has to be paid when the auto industry demands a well-trained work force, but has to shut down from time-to-time to re-tool, adjust inventories, etc. You can't expect everybody to sit around doing nothing, waiting for a re-call...and you can't train a new batch from scratch every time either.

Frankly, the Big 3 should open their doors to the general public once a year, like they do for family members, so that the average guy can see just how toughan assembly line job is.

You want to spread some rancor, go after the businesses that use Chinese slave labour and expect hard-working Americans to compete.

This entire automotive bailout is not to help the auto manufacturers. This is to subsidize the non-productive UAW.

The UAW has run our automobile manufacturers into the ground. And now that they've not only milked the cow dry, they're strangling it as well.

No bailout. Let GM, and Ford go under, the UAW is out of the picture, and someone with some damned business sense can come in and start over. And keep the UAW out!

I work too hard for my money to be paying for some *sshole UAW guy to have his insurance and pension. I don't remember any of them covering my expenses!

It's beyond corrupt. It's a leech, and it's sucked it's hosts dry.

Let them hang out to dry for a while.

Originally posted by dooperNo bailout. Let GM, and Ford go under, the UAW is out of the picture, and someone with some damned business sense can come in and start over. And keep the UAW out!

Excellent! Throw out the last of your manufacturing sector, and you can all work at Walmart and spend your off-hours shopping there, too. That'll keep the milage low on your KIA.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Unions...the folks that brought you the 5 day work week.

Ford gave all his workers high pay and benefits way before unions took over "his" company.

Frankly, the Big 3 should open their doors to the general public once a year, like they do for family members, so that the average guy can see just how toughan assembly line job is.

When you squeeze companies, they go out of business or they squeeze back. The unions have forced companies to turn their employees into robots. Why anyone would work on an assembly line is beyond me. I would rather make less money and have a lot less stress.

You want to spread some rancor, go after the businesses that use Chinese slave labour and expect hard-working Americans to compete.

The slave labor is those who work like zombies on assembly lines. I would rather work at Wall Mart

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck


Excellent! Throw out the last of your manufacturing sector, and you can all work at Walmart and spend your off-hours shopping there, too. That'll keep the milage low on your KIA.

The unions have already done that. Textile mills, steel industry, airlines and now the biggest car companies in the world....not any more

You don't understand business, do you?

The plants won't disappear. The assets that are currently in use won't disappear. Another will come in and with a new business model, start building cars again. But without the damned life-sucking UAW.

Businesses have been going out of business since time began, and yet someone always comes along and can do it better, more efficiently, and provide better products.

GM and Ford aren't anything special.

They fail - they fail.

And someone else gets to start over, learning from their mistakes.

Originally posted by gdeed The unions have already done that. Textile mills, steel industry, airlines and now the biggest car companies in the world....not any more

You can't blame the unions. You think there'd be any health insurance, holidays or other 'perqs' without unions? Labour is generally the smallest part of the manufacturing cost.

You've seen what the corporations do when they get their own way, blame them. The simple fact is that no company gets unionised that doesn't deserve it. Happy employees throw union organisers out.

Originally posted by dooper
You don't understand business, do you?

I do understand globalism. They don't call the North East the rust belt cuz they salt the roads in winter. It's because the heavy industries are rusting away while their work went to the far east. They don't come back...and quite frankly the biggest reason is because people want a good return on their mutual funds. Well, that and an administration that supports a corporate kleptocracy.

Blame unions all you want...you're simply blaming the guy next door. If, he still has a job.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by dooper
You don't understand business, do you?

I do understand globalism. They don't call the North East the rust belt cuz they salt the roads in winter. It's because the heavy industries are rusting away while their work went to the far east. They don't come back...and quite frankly the biggest reason is because people want a good return on their mutual funds. Well, that and an administration that supports a corporate kleptocracy.

Blame unions all you want...you're simply blaming the guy next door. If, he still has a job.

I do blame the unions. In the IT industry, the way it's worked is a company thinks up a product and you estimate the number of heads needed to develop that product. Then you bring in temporary skilled labor to do the work. When the work load diminishes, you let some of the temp workers go. The full time workers still have their jobs. There are no unions involved and the incentive for the temp worker is to do their best when at a job so they can get hired on full time if there is a business need for full time heads.

With a union, it seems like the incentive to do well isn't there because the job bank acts as a safety net and can be abused. I understand the purpose of the job bank - it is there to keep full time people from being laid off during the roller coaster of business need. That's all well-intentioned and I get it. But like the welfare system, one has to ask - is it being abused and is management letting it be abused by people who slack off? Does management take problem workers and instead of working with them to make them better, simply throw them into the job bank so they become someone else's problem? Do workers intentionally do a crappy job if they don't like what they're doing so they can get into the job bank and spend a year at rest earning almost all of their salary?

That's the difference between American and foreign auto manufacturers. You don't see their systems allowing their workers the opportunity to screw the system over and get away with it.

Also, you have no right to blame anyone for making a decision not to buy from the big three. I buy foreign cars because I know I can rely on them. I consider my time and my money too valuable to toss it away on a car that's going to cause me to spend time, energy, stress and money taking it into the shop several times per year versus a vehicle that doesn't give me any problems. I would rather use that time and extra money on my own family. If you call that selfish, for me to focus on what's in the best interests of my own family first rather than the guy next door, then hell yes, I'm selfish and I wouldn't have it any other way!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by sos37]

Yes the day of the unions are dead they outweighed their purpose,now they are like back to the day the mafia ran the unions,they kick non union people off construction sites,and bring in their own unproductive members,you can't run a buisness with your employees telling you how to run it,sign up with the union once,they will follow you till your out of buisness

Originally posted by sos37If you call that selfish, for me to focus on what's in the best interests of my own family first rather than the guy next door, then hell yes, I'm selfish and I wouldn't have it any other way

Time was folks looked out for each other. Now it's 'me, me, me'
Which explains why your country is tanking. Used to be "Buy American", now it's "Attention Walmart shoppers."

Time was, folks did a decent job and got a decent pay. But the unions did the me, me, me thing and now the cows have come home.

Buy American? I did for decades. Now, I'll spend my hard earned dollars as intelligently as I can. And if the Japanese have a better product, then I don't give a fuzzy rat's ***.

If the American car companies want my dollars, they better give me a damned good reason, and supporting the UAW is not a good reason.