Why I believe the Mumbai attacks were definately a False Flag Op.

Hi Guys,

I thought I would start a thread as I couldn't find a similar one that allows us to brainstorm and piece together all of the points that make the past event seem highly suspicious. I personally believe that the attacks were a False Flag Op, and have seen enough in my opinion to condemn it as such.

Here are some points that I believe need investigation:

1) The apparently timed shooting that took place at the train station and other locations where the attackers appeared to be one step ahead of the police and military intercepting them.

At the train station they opened fire and were described as cool and calm as if they weren't in a hurry. Could there have been many more people involved in this operation? Potentially advising them and keeping a watch on police and military actions around the city? All we know is that it was a clear and precise execution of a mission.

2) Eye witnesses claiming that they saw "foreigners" and "fair skinned" attackers.

Multiple witnesses described them as very western in their style: clothing, hair, etc. In images we can see of the terrorist we know that they are kitted out in clothes that don't appear to be from either Pakistan or India, further to this, they aren't wearing clothes that your average Indian or Pakistani wears. There appearance when contrasted against terrorists from the middle east is totally different also.

3) Local knowledge of the area and knowledge of police/army strategies and tactics. It was almost as if the entire team were co-ordinated by some method of communication. There could have maybe been a possible HQ advising them of where and when to make a move.

4) The assassination of the chief of the anti-terror squad in Mumbai. Mumbai is a BIG city, and I find it interesting that they managed to take out the chief of the anti-terror squad, a person who would have ALL of the latest intelligence available and with knowledge of local extremists in India, Pakistan and further a field. It was this guys job to know how these operatives work and he was assassinated with precision it seems.

5) The use of powerful drugs like Cocaine, '___' and Steroids to enhance effectiveness.

This is against the basic principles of Islam to use these drugs and it is frowned upon as a western "indulgence" by orthadox Muslims from the region. I thought that terrorists were meant to be fundamentalists? Meaning they follow their doctrine in a strict manner.

6) Special ops training that allowed them to sustain the fighting for over 60+ hours during the attacks.

These guys were HEAVILY trained and armed to the teeth! They knew what they were doing and knew how to hold of all of the military that were deployed in the city for 3 days!

7) The political benefit that can be gained by western governments by the attacks.

8) The accounts that claim the terrorists were drinking at a bar before beginning their massacre.

9) The lack of intelligence relating to the leaders of the parent organisation that ordered these killings and provided funds.

10) Another unknown terrorist group coming from no where: Deccan Muhajadeen.

11) Vilasrao Deshmukh, the chief minister of Mumbai, was reported to have said that two British-born Pakistanis were among eight gunmen seized by Indian commandos who stormed buildings to free hostages.

12) Major terrorist leaders denying responsibility for attacks.

13) No-suicide bombings as if they expected to complete their mission alive.

14) *"Another facilitating factor is that the country of India was flooded with Clone SIM Cards.so all tracebility aspects of tracking transmissions is remedied moot.It's like Cell Phone Phishing tactic." - Contributed by Bruiex

I would like to hear other points that seem suspicious if you have any so that we can open up an "ATS investigation"

[edit on 3-12-2008 by IceColdPro]

Ok well good points.Some are very true and unexplained.
It very well could have been all orchestrated.
But we cant prove it.This is not proof just good points.
I don't know where we go from here.
If they try anything due to these mumbai attacks well we will know they planned them for something bigger.

Originally posted by AgentOrangeJuice
Ok well good points.Some are very true and unexplained.
It very well could have been all orchestrated.
But we cant prove it.This is not proof just good points.
I don't know where we go from here.
If they try anything due to these mumbai attacks well we will know they planned them for something bigger.

You are right, this isn't proof. I guess eye-witness testimony could be a sort of proof, therefore, if you or others have some time to look for actual quotes that could back up any of the points above, we could start to piece together a case. I've noticed that the Indian government and media have been quite good at releasing the kind of ammunition we need to maybe prove that this was indeed a false flag or inconsistent event like 9/11.

reply to post by IceColdPro


I think it would be prudent to wait for an official investigation, as a lot of what's coming out from Mumbai at the moment is far from accurate.

No-one, except those who perpetrated it, know if it was a false-flag op for certain. Including you. It would be highly irrational to say it definitely is anything, as quite simply unless you were one of the gunmen, you don't know. Period.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

I think it would be prudent to wait for an official investigation, as a lot of what's coming out from Mumbai at the moment is far from accurate.

No-one, except those who perpetrated it, know if it was a false-flag op for certain. Including you. It would be highly irrational to say it definitely is anything, as quite simply unless you were one of the gunmen, you don't know. Period.

No doubt, that would be a wise step to take. However, we have to ask the question: What has any "official" report into terrorism provided us with? If we look at the official report into 9/11 we know that this is unsatisfactory and doesn't address many of the pertinent concerns of the "9/11 truth" activists.

An official report in my opinion will only provide us with disinformation, we have enough raw information flooding from the indian press and eye-witnesses to piece together some details that appear to be suspicious and in need of investigation. This is the point of this thread, we have variables available to us and we know of the obvious benefits that a false flag op could bring in this region at this current time. We have a motive, evidence and testimony and I think ATS has enough mind power to begin to piece together the inconsistencies.

You have brought up fundamental problems and questions concerning these attacks. The anonymity of this operation was the goal and it is obvious these people were trained.Another facilitating factor is that the country of India was flooded with Clone SIM Cards.so all tracebility aspects of tracking transmissions is remedied moot.It's like Cell Phone Phishing tactic.


After the evidence about 9/11 and 7/7 have shown us how easy public perceptions can be manipulated."They" are getting better at the wag the dog scenarios.Looks Gaming Simulations are creating a whole new ability to map out operations.

This is my first reply post...glad to be here.

Originally posted by Bruiex
You have brought up fundamental problems and questions concerning these attacks. The anonymity of this operation was the goal and it is obvious these people were trained.Another facilitating factor is that the country of India was flooded with Clone SIM Cards.so all tracebility aspects of tracking transmissions is remedied moot.It's like Cell Phone Phishing tactic.


After the evidence about 9/11 and 7/7 have shown us how easy public perceptions can be manipulated."They" are getting better at the wag the dog scenarios.Looks Gaming Simulations are creating a whole new ability to map out operations.

This is my first reply post...glad to be here.

Welcome to ATS and I hope it's not your last reply as you raised an important detail I wasn't aware of: the clone sim cards.

I'll amend my list above and add that to the list of points.

Cheers

Originally posted by BruiexAfter the evidence about 9/11 and 7/7 have shown us how easy public perceptions can be manipulated."They" are getting better at the wag the dog scenarios. This is my first reply post...glad to be here.

Nice to have you aboard, Bruiex...and as paranoid as the rest of us by the looks of it!

My first thought is always cui bono...for whose benefit?...

The US has started fighting a de facto war with Pakistan across the Afghan border, and the Paks are...quite understandably...taking some umbridge at these violations of their territorial integrity. Nevermind that they can't contain the frontier themselves, but that's another argument.

Anyway...this attack in Mumbai certainly softens up yet another Islamic (while secular) state. They can either fight or fold. I'd say the US is bettting Pakistan won't start a nuclear conflict over this, and will give the US a free pass across their borders to declare open season on 'bad guys'.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

reply to post by IceColdPro


Are you kidding me?

This is your proof?

Coordinated attacks? Endurance drugs? Beheading the local authorities?

It is called strategy. Anyone with the desire can do this.

Unless you are saying that bad guys are simply too "stupid" to coordinate an attack on a helpless civilian population.

You are right... It is so difficult to attack a HOTEL and a subway! Who would have thought of using RADIO to communicate.

Admit it. You simply HATE the U.S. and the West.

Originally posted by crmanager
Admit it. You simply HATE the U.S. and the West.

You know, it is possible to dislike the current administration and its foreign policy without hating the US and the West. In fact, I think the results of your last election made that point admirably.

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

Are you kidding me?

This is your proof?

Coordinated attacks? Endurance drugs? Beheading the local authorities?

It is called strategy. Anyone with the desire can do this.

Unless you are saying that bad guys are simply too "stupid" to coordinate an attack on a helpless civilian population.

You are right... It is so difficult to attack a HOTEL and a subway! Who would have thought of using RADIO to communicate.

Admit it. You simply HATE the U.S. and the West.

First of all step back, take a deep breath and think happy thoughts.

I am not claiming that this is any kind of proof, but these are the strong reasons why I PERSONALLY believe that the Mumbai attacks were a false flag. I have posted points of interest that need to be addressed and I welcome you and others to do so.

Coordinated attacks? Endurance drugs? Beheading the local authorities?

It is called strategy. Anyone with the desire can do this.

True, but this is a unique case in which the terrorists managed to hold off the military and police for a period of 60 hours! They had a lot of intelligence, funding and inside information so that they could be one step ahead of the Indian police force and military.

I want you to know that I don't hate the US or the West. I am located in the "west" (The Netherlands) why would I hate the place I was born and live in? Further to that, all accusations are directed at the governments and not the innocent peoples.

reply to post by IceColdPro


It's not that I don't agree with your premise, in fact I do. But your notion that taking drugs is against Islam is incorrect, all you ave to do to get to this is search the origins of the word ASSASSIN.

This word stems from HASHISHSHEEM and variations of it. It comes from users of Hash and started with one of the Caliphs in the middle east long ago. He would get them wasted on hash and send them on murder missions...

This is another one of those urban legends like Allah is the same god as the GOD of the Jews and Christians. I just thought I would point this part out toyou for future reference.

On your other points I pretty much agree, many people said they were white or fair skinned terrorists, much like the beheading of Nick Berg. Also it happened right before the U.S. announces it is putting up to 2 million troop in the U.S. and also announced the new "SAFETY CHECKS" by Fire and Police unannounced in every American home and without warrant as well as the release that all children in pre-school will get three CPS home checks a year.

These items did not happen overnight after the Bombay attacks, yes I still call it Bombay not Mumbai. These laws and plans had to be drawn up and ready to go for the release of them to the public.

The American people are being set up and they are to ignorant or lazy or distracted to pay attention to their own deteriorating situation...

I suppose when hey wake up in a FEMA Camp they will figure it out, albeit to late.

GOOD THREAD!!

reply to post by IceColdPro


You need to read more my friend.

Local authorities are issued 3o rounds of ammunition at graduation. THAT IS IT. There is no shooting range. The last time most of the Police fired was during training.

There was 2215 guns in the MUMBAI area of 1.8 million people.

The locals disarmed themselves.

This was zelots vs. sheep.

Sheep lost.

Please back off the FALSE FLAG stuff because TODAY Al-Queada announced they will help the PAKISTANI army fight the Indian army.

There is your reasoning for this attack.

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

You need to read more my friend.

Local authorities are issued 3o rounds of ammunition at graduation. THAT IS IT. There is no shooting range. The last time most of the Police fired was during training.

There was 2215 guns in the MUMBAI area of 1.8 million people.

What you are saying may be true for the police constables that are based in Mumbai, however, the military took over the scene. They are armed to the teeth and well trained as most of the military around the world is.

If this were London then their would be a lot less guns than in Mumbai for the police as regular police officers in Britain are unarmed, this doesn't mean that Britain is defenceless does it? Special units and the military would be used if something like this happened.

Please back off the FALSE FLAG stuff because TODAY Al-Queada announced they will help the PAKISTANI army fight the Indian army.

NO! Unfortunately I will NOT back off! YOU are the one who is letting the government clearly control your fears! There is NO Al-Qaeda my friend, that is just a nick name used to pigeon hole all of the various fundamentalist islamic organisations that exist in that region. This is done so that people like you and me won't be able to distinguish these groups and allow for a better media spread of disinformation.

I don't let ANY world event prevent me from discussing the truth here.

Now please, you have made your point, but you have no grounds to request that ANYONE backs off from investigating matters like this.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by IceColdPro]

reply to post by crmanager


Maybe I am missing your point but I don't see how your point makes the OP's point invalid. They could have used the info you gave about guns and ammo and such against the Indians in a False Flag OP to get the desired reaction by all the parties. Maybe they want war in India and Pakistan so Israel and the U.S. must under treaties join India and Iran and China and probably Russia would join Pakistan and Iran against the Indians, Jews and Americans.

The problem with this scenario is that if it is a False Fla Operation we are now playing with Nuclear armed nations that already hate each other, adding fuel to their fire isn't very bright in my opinion...

Again I don't think the two points are mutually exclusive of each other...

I think it's funny how when a country is attacked by terrorist, everyone thinks it's a conspiracy. Did it ever come across your mind that maybe terrorist did do this?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

Also it happened right before the U.S. announces it is putting up to 2 million troop in the U.S. and also announced the new "SAFETY CHECKS" by Fire and Police unannounced in every American home and without warrant as well as the release that all children in pre-school will get three CPS home checks a year.

Sorry to threadjack, but can you point me in the direction of these last two announcements. I've searched but must have missed them. Thanks!

reply to post by IceColdPro


ok, im not saying your wrong here, but, im going to have a go at the points you made.

1)
the result of coordination and preparation. it was said it took a year to plan. surveillance could have been ongoing up to, and into the event. it was said that the boat recovered had more supplies then were need for the known terrorist. implying persons unaccounted for.

2)
I don't know many Indians, but, the ones ive meet seem to be fairly dark skinned. if by contrast other ethnic persons from the region, not specific to India were there, they would appear to be "fair skinned" to the locals.

as for the western style appearance, well, one would need to appear to belong there to be able to move about freely without suspicion. all part of good planning.

3)
there probable were lookouts positioned at the various places. however a years worth of surveillance would tell you a lot about an institutions movements. and, if they did indeed have training by the ISI, then they would be able to anticipate the actions of the local authorities. all of the reactions are going to be text book, and predictable.

4)
this one is a bit strange for me. im sure the person or persons tasked with this job were the best trained, and most knowledgeable about what was happening. probable the lead of the team would be my guess. if they were trained by the ISI as is being speculated, maybe it was a trade off. we train you, and one of our own will go with you and take down this mark, while the whole city is in upheaval. a kind of....look over there, while im over here kind of thing. diversion. I would even venture to guess, that this was the prime objective in the first place. who knows.

5)
no comment on that one, except to say, orthodox Muslims don't kill either.....

6)
yes, I agree. lots of training. but not unreasonable to think it could not be done.

7)
no comment

8)
eye witness.......were they drinking those drinks? were they alcoholic drinks. most likely just trying to fit in un noticed. most foreigners cozy up to bar when on a business trip.

9)
who?....did what?....no, never heard of him.....

10)
I wasn't me....it was him.

11)
not surprising. there is said to be an American born who is very high up in the A family. that bearded white boy telling us on those videos how evil we are.

12)
no need to comment

13)
maybe it was a suicide mission. no need to strap on a bomb vest, just let the locals shoot you.

14)
I have not heard that one. very interesting. that would take a lot of logistics to cover.

my thoughts anyway......

There is something thats called Denialism. Though there have been Muslim extremists and co-ordinated terrorist attacks for decades - and the perpetrators proudly take credit for then - there are people out there who immediately look for some conspiracy on the part of the US admin, CIA, the British, Israel, Mossad, etc.

It get's tiresome to read the pulling apart of anything reported as planned disinformation. There really are journalists and news sources out there trying to get stories straight, and unlike internet jockeys, they actually are on site, talk to those involved with investigations, check sources and look at primary source documents.

To dismiss anything that happens as some kind of plot just feeds the general disdain for Conspiracy Theorists as paranoids.


Mike F

Originally posted by JSR
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

the result of coordination and preparation. it was said it took a year to plan. surveillance could have been ongoing up to, and into the event. it was said that the boat recovered had more supplies then were need for the known terrorist. implying persons unaccounted for.

True this is a possibility. However, this doesn't explain how they had over 10 minutes to stand in the station lobby shooting anything that moved. I think the military or armed units were there moments before they left! It was almost as if they knew what the police were doing and when. I mean... a 60 hour massacre and siege! It would take extremely skilled soldiers to pull that off, who knows, maybe even special ops training?!

I don't know many Indians, but, the ones ive meet seem to be fairly dark skinned. if by contrast other ethnic persons from the region, not specific to India were there, they would appear to be "fair skinned" to the locals.

Valid point. However, we don't know what his context was and we both meet when it comes to the level of speculation we are using to make our points.

There are plenty of fair skinned Indian people that are local to Mumbai, I am not saying that you don't have a point, but the eye-witnesses description was very strange: "He was fair skinned, he looked like a foreigner". This was when describing the terrorists that were on the back of motorcycles if I remember correctly.

eye witness.......were they drinking those drinks? were they alcoholic drinks. most likely just trying to fit in un noticed. most foreigners cozy up to bar when on a business trip.

"Locals say the orgy of killings in Mumbai began here. Three men walked into the cafe, drank beer, settled their bills and walked out. Then they fished out guns from their bags and began firing."

Almost sounds like they could have been influenced by western action films with their Hollywood opening. Snorting up coc aine, drinking beer, they then settle the tab and walk outside the door and pull out their guns and open fire on everyone in sight.

Source

maybe it was a suicide mission. no need to strap on a bomb vest, just let the locals shoot you.

Sounds plausible, but 15+ gunmen and one small bomb. It seems like if it were Iraq, from what I hear about these extremists, they usually open fire and then blow themselves up... A good example is in Pakistan when Benazir Bhutto was assassinated, the terrorist opened fire before blowing himself up.

What I don't understand, is that out of 15 of them, why didn't one of them commit suicide? Maybe they were brainwashed blackwater mercs, that were highly paid and convinced into doing this and were told that they would get away? I mean, didn't some of them actually get away? They were fighting with sub machine guns and grenades, pretty much the basic tools that a marine would use and they KNEW how to use these tools well.

When the 21-year-old Azam arrived at the hospital he begged the medical staff there to help him. He told them that he didn’t want to die. It turned out that he was fluent in English and from from tehsil Gipalpura in Faridkot in Pakistan. He begged for his own life after indiscriminately taking the lives of whoever happened to be in the train station that morning.

Source

Your points were very valid and just as plausible as what I am saying, however, I am just saying that these were the things that I found suspicious about the whole thing and which leads me to believe its a false flag op.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by IceColdPro]