Mumbai Attack - Armed police would not fire back!

Originally posted by PsykoOps
It is so easy to tell other people how they should do their job in the cover of internet. Next time maybe you should go and do the job yourself.

???

Were are talking about D. Souza (the one who took the photographs of the suspects) telling the police how to do their job whilst the vent was taking place.

We internet users are commenting about that.

Please read the OP properly.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
There are bound to be a couple of pussies amongst any force.

14 policemen died this week, all of them went into battle knowing that they were facing far superior firepower.

Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte died after going into battle with Webley revolvers (ww2 era); all other policement died after knowingly going into battle with bolt action .303 enfields (pre-ww2).

I can't believe you are focusing on the few cowards rather than the vast number of heros.

Clearly you have some sort of anti-India agenda but this is ridiculous. Why dont you just go ahead and post a thread about how glorious and noble the terrorists were?

And can you please just admit to being a Pakistani with a grudge, rather than claiming to "not be Pakistani, just having lots of Pakistani friends". That was the exact line that Token used to give before being pushed into admitting that he was indeed Pakistani. Just admit it, and we can have an honest debate about your grievances...

The only thing to conclude from that article is that India needs to repeal its stupid Raj-era firearms laws and arm a great faction of society with better arms.

Only a couple of cowards?

Let's look at the big picture...

10 gunmen kill 200 including commandos, police officials etc etc. over a period of a FEW DAYS over several locations. The Independent News has already coined these people "Commando Killers".

The events seems to indicate that most or all were cowards I'm afraid.

This forum is called ATS and we seek inspiration and truth by questioning everything. It's not just the event of Mumbai but all events (please use 'search').

If you're expecting blind support for your nationalistic views then perhaps a different forum would be more fitting.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Jinni]

Would not fire back?
Maybe did you think they don't have the resources for this?
I know many Indian people, and they would have liked to fire back.
In a Hindu based city, they don't have swat teams at every corner waiting to kill someone.
Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims.

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan
Would not fire back?
Maybe did you think they don't have the resources for this?
I know many Indian people, and they would have liked to fire back.
In a Hindu based city, they don't have swat teams at every corner waiting to kill someone.
Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims.

That's not true.

People who follow their faith properly whether Islam\Christianity\Judaism\Hinduism ARE ALL about PEACE.

Don't be ignorant.

Ignorant and fascist type statements like "Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims." is what the world doesn't need... [Disinfo agent alert]

Furthermore, the city was sprawling with armed guards \ police so again, you talking nonsense. The proof is there in the OP: D'Souza approached several Police with guns who were watching the events like it was some kind of movie.

i recall that in the Army, when one was given 'Guard Duty'

you were issued one clip of ammo
but that clip had only three (3) rounds in it

iow, your post, if it came under attack could not be defended for 5 minutes


a 'barney fife' loaded weapon, (one bullet) is no way to overwhelm an unknown force in a secure position that has an unknown number of still alive hostage victims present.
just the show of force, was intended to show the attackers that counter measures were underway....


i am dismayed that the ghost of the John Wayne machismo is still seen as a valid option

Originally posted by St Udio
i recall that in the Army, when one was given 'Guard Duty'

you were issued one clip of ammo
but that clip had only three (3) rounds in it

iow, your post, if it came under attack could not be defended for 5 minutes


a 'barney fife' loaded weapon, (one bullet) is no way to overwhelm an unknown force in a secure position that has an unknown number of still alive hostage victims present.
just the show of force, was intended to show the attackers that counter measures were underway....


i am dismayed that the ghost of the John Wayne machismo is still seen as a valid option

Tell that to D'Souza who was on the scene and had much more awareness of what what going on than you or I.

If there were two suspects killing people in real time and there were multiple barney rifles at the Railway I'm pretty sure that even 'Barney' would have tried to save their lives. At the expense of risking theirs. That's why D'Souza was so frustrated.

It's interesting that so many people feel that police should take orders from civilian bystanders and members of the media. The media certainly have a role to play in such a situation, but giving any idiot a pulpit to shout from, in the perceived interest of fairness, is not promoting the common good. It's rather like the US concept of giving equal time to 2 sides, even if there isn't a credible second side.

The police were most likely ordered by their superiors to asses the situation, and under no circumstances escalate the situation.

In most policeforces, beat cops are called in to cordon off the scene and make sure noone get's in or out. Then negotiators and special units are called in. In such an incident, the best ordinary police officers can do, is to make certain that the criminals don't get out.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by aaa2500]

Jinni.. why don't we call up your D'Souza and hold a tele con?
I can track him down, and send you a dial out bridge number.. tollfree of course..
Lets hear it from the horse's mouth shall we? I plan to contact him anyways..

And on a separate not.. administrative incompetence in this incident is NOT a doubt.. things definitely could have been done much better and the people here are pissed off.. conspiracy? NO.. incompetence? YES

reply to post by Jinni


You're a disgrace.

Dont talk about neutrality and impartiality when it is clear that you are entirely biased.

Im not a blind nationalist... I citicize when criticism is due (eg I believe the police needed better weapons, training).

But to question the valour and heroism of the police force is retarded. 14 of them went KNOWINGLY to their deaths. I doubt you would have the moral fibre to do something like that, so instead you sit behind your keyboard and call the entire force cowards.

And lets get one thing straight- the terrorists killed 14 police who were armed with sub-par equipment. When the NSGs arrived on scene, they took out 10 terrorists for only the loss of 2 commandos. If you know anything about military actions, you should know that it takes roughly 10X the number of troops to attack an entrenched enemy position like the hotel.

What the NSG achieved was incredible, considering that there were also hostages inside the hotel.

Lets not forget that 1,000 people were rescued by the NSG from the hotels.

When the terrorists met soldiers who were comparably armed, they were annihilated despite hiding behind hostages as human shields and indiscriminately throwing grenades. So stop glorifying the terorrists... they were pathetic scum that could only attack unarmed civilians and underarmed policemen.

Originally posted by Jinni

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan
Would not fire back?
Maybe did you think they don't have the resources for this?
I know many Indian people, and they would have liked to fire back.
In a Hindu based city, they don't have swat teams at every corner waiting to kill someone.
Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims.

That's not true.

People who follow their faith properly whether Islam\Christianity\Judaism\Hinduism ARE ALL about PEACE.

Don't be ignorant.

Ignorant and fascist type statements like "Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims." is what the world doesn't need... [Disinfo agent alert]

Furthermore, the city was sprawling with armed guards \ police so again, you talking nonsense. The proof is there in the OP: D'Souza approached several Police with guns who were watching the events like it was some kind of movie.

That's not true? LOL
If that's not true, then nothing is true my man.
Islam causes this.
Islam was supposed to be forgotten.
And now is made into a perverted cause for killing.
Explain to me how it is not?
Islam is the only cult, that when it goes wrong, it kills people!!
I don't know about you, but I could live without the killing people!!

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan

Originally posted by Jinni

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan
Would not fire back?
Maybe did you think they don't have the resources for this?
I know many Indian people, and they would have liked to fire back.
In a Hindu based city, they don't have swat teams at every corner waiting to kill someone.
Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims.

That's not true.

People who follow their faith properly whether Islam\Christianity\Judaism\Hinduism ARE ALL about PEACE.

Don't be ignorant.

Ignorant and fascist type statements like "Hindu's are peaceful, not like Muslims." is what the world doesn't need... [Disinfo agent alert]

Furthermore, the city was sprawling with armed guards \ police so again, you talking nonsense. The proof is there in the OP: D'Souza approached several Police with guns who were watching the events like it was some kind of movie.

That's not true? LOL
If that's not true, then nothing is true my man.
Islam causes this.
Islam was supposed to be forgotten.
And now is made into a perverted cause for killing.
Explain to me how it is not?
Islam is the only cult, that when it goes wrong, it kills people!!
I don't know about you, but I could live without the killing people!!

And you just proved yourself to be a fascist who doesn't seem to understand anything. What the religion dictates and what people actually do are two different things. I am saying that the religions are all about peace.

Islam is not a cult. It's the world fastest growing religion and most adhered. The attraction is it's emphasis of peace.

Please stop being bigoted and fascist. You sound like some fundamentalist extremist wanting to terminate all followers of Islam.

It seems that perhaps you are incapable of reading \ understanding things and are totally ignorant of facts and basic contextual knowledge.

Good luck!


[edit on 30-11-2008 by Jinni]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Jinni]

As I said in another thread, the police were totally outgunned in terms of technology...
Firing a bolt action rifle at someone with a fully automatic assault rifle will make anyone nervous. You have to make sure your shots count or you'll be gunned down.

Even IF there was an order to not shoot, that order would have been ignored once policemen started dying.
Your conspiracy isn't here. There IS a conspiracy, but that isn't it.

Originally posted by St Udio
i recall that in the Army, when one was given 'Guard Duty'
you were issued one clip of ammo
but that clip had only three (3) rounds in it

You got more than I did. When I was put out on 'Guard Duty' I got NO WEAPON at all. Not even a freak'n night stick. It was so lame. I wandered amongst the tanks and jeeps in the motorpool - dodging rattle snakes - and no weapon.

reply to post by FlyersFan




dodging rattlers?
sounds like you were on guard duty at a Texas duty station.



just goes to show that things change in the times & place of active duty,
i cite West Germany as the place the grunt soldiers carried their M-14s,
the Sgt. of the guard carried a .45. (they also did not have full clips, at least at the Kasern/barracks which housed our Battalion)

i, personally was ED (eliminated from duty, such as KP or Guard Duty)
but i felt that the knowledge of under-armed personnel was pretty well SOP and could be a factor in the actions of the Mumbai (formerly Bombay) police personnel....

[? wonder if they changed the cities name from 'Bomb-bay' because it sounded more incendary...than Mumbai ?]


thanks

reply to post by Jinni


Sorry didn't mean you. Other replies on the thread were on my mind.

no ammo, d'uh.

the questions is whether they magically 'lost' it one or two weeks before this attack. may be the normal SNAFU in the region, an old club with a rusty barre as a weapon l and cobwebs for bullets.

considering the state of affairs i fear the worst, though, ie. complicity. it'S so easy to do, just tell them it's a drill and order them to stay put and not fight back.

That should be a warning to any and every cop or soldier on Earth, if you're asked to participate ina realistic terror drill, either be sick or bring the kevlar and the best weapon you can find, along with 200 rounds of ammo and don't forget to warn your buddies! don't tell them too much though or you'll be suicided and your body placed on a crime scene...

reply to post by Jinni


Slightly off topic

In the UK, if someone is dying and you don't help then you can be convicted for manslaughter or murder

I didn't know this, do you have any examples?

O.M.G

I think this is relevant here:

"Indian Police discover RSS Hindu Terror Cell which was pretending to be Muslim‏s"

Source:
pakalert.wordpress.com...

Here is a PDF report: india-headed-towards-hindu-talibanization-and-fascist-saffron-violence
pakalert.files.wordpress.com...

THOSE OFFICERS KILLED IN MUMBAI WERE SPEARHEADING THE INVESTIGATION.

Why would 'Pakistan' want to kill them? Complete contradiction.

Something stinks here BIG time.

reply to post by Jinni


Why would Pakistan want to kill them? Who said Pakistan is killing them?
Plus, their deaths are a fluke.. They lead from the front.. God bless them..
They were killed by a spray of bullets that were targeting anyone and everyone. do you even know HOW they died? People on this website just pick up the fact that 'senior members were killed' as if it was some assasination operation..
Get Real .. conspiracists et al..

Secondly..I cannot find where the article says that the hindu terrorists were pretending to be islamic terrorists, except in the title.. Could you help me with that?

Lastly.. that site there you linked is a religiously biased.. I didnt find ONE link there that didn't reek of religious overtones..so.. I don't really consider that a as a valid neutral unbiased source of information.

lol look at Jinni desperately trying to find someone other than Pakistan to blame the attacks on. Im really starting to think that if you compared Jinni's IP address to Token's they would be the same... hows that for a conspiracy.

Lets see what comes out of the investigation- then lets draw conclusions.

I also found it rather telling that the site he linked to was tinged with Islamic undertones and pro-Pakistani overtones... clear deflection in an attempt to deny who is behind the attacks. Even the site points out though that if the RSS were implicated in the previous bombings in september, it would be the first time that a hindu group was behind it... as opposed to the thousandth attack by extremist muslims.