Freemasonry Membership Card

My wife and I met another couple a few years back. To keep it short the husband has always said he was a 33rd degree mason. He tells some real whoppers sometimes so I never thought anything of it. When we were eating dinner one night and when he pulled out the plastic he was reorganizing his wallet and pulled out a card.

The card had a freemason heading similar to "the united carpenters and jointers association". I don't remember exactly what it said but it was a similar design. I do remember it stated him as a lifetime member and had his name and 33rd degree after it. Like I said this guy tends to lie often, but I know he is a mason because he regularly attends meetings.

The part that has me confused though is his fathers extreme wealth and powerful friends. His father owns a aerospace manufacturing plant which he leases out and is completely opposite of his son. So on our way back from a fishing trip during the long drive he tells me that his father received a defense contract to manufacture the ribs and propellar blades for the Vietnam war. He then tells me that the wife of a powerful politician actually received the contract, and sub contracted out to his fathers company.

On the way back from a Mariners game he says "you want to see my Dads machine shop" and I got a bad feeling. I knew that his father no longer had "control" of the plant and figured they wouldn't let us inside that late at night. So we enter this industial complex in South Seattle and he parks right at the front door of the main building, he shuts the car off and says let's go have a look. We walk in and security stops us about 6 feet in the door. He basically said his name and the next thing you know we get an entire tour of the whole facility at 11:30 at night machine by machine. They actually had people get off the machines as the guy I am with explains and demonstrates every function of each machine. The tour took 3 hours and we totally messed up production dinking around in their.

The talk on the way back from fishing got pretty weird. He talked about summoning gnome like creatures and secret technology. He said something along the lines of how the record player completely changed due to this technology and that it is given to us in forms that net the most profit regardless of whether it could help the world.

I just wonder what to make of the guy. Does anyone know if they really have membership cards or if it is all B.S. He only talks about the stuff if he's had a few beers but some of the stuff he has said is pretty wild. One time he told me masons hold the secret to the blueprints of not just our reality or dimension but all dimensions. Kinda creepy. So what do you guys think about this, other than the author of this thread sounds like a nut case?

Dunno what to tell you there. If he was a 33rd Degree mason, he'd also get a nice little plaque. They'd have also have had to have made a considerable impact in their community or Lodge, as well as being in the Scottish Rite.
Masonry does give out a Due card, which states that the member has paid their annual due to ther lodge, however I'm not familiar with what is actually on the card itself.
www.victoriacarpenters.com...
Did the shape on the card look something like this?
Because th United Carpenters and Joiners would be a Masonic organizaton... in a Operational Masonic sense, unlike FreeMasonry which is purely speculative these days.

As for the rest... well, if it takes a few beers to get him to talk, maybe it takes a few beers to make him into a storyteller. Dunno.

freaking awesome thread.
fascinating!

I need to stop hypothesizing and blabbing about what I think I know about conspiracies and just join up.


faaa-scin--aaaat-ing!

-

Originally posted by Jnewell33
Does anyone know if they really have membership cards or if it is all B.S.

Yes, each year when a member pays his annual dues he is issued a dues receipt membership card. However, fake ones are easily available on the Internet, and for the most part only a Mason would know the difference between a real one and a fale one.

One time he told me masons hold the secret to the blueprints of not just our reality or dimension but all dimensions. Kinda creepy. So what do you guys think about this, other than the author of this thread sounds like a nut case?

I would sasy he's faking it. While Freemasonry can be pretty interesting, it's still a fraternal organization based on the ideal of the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God. Anybody talking about Freemasonry holding the keys of reality and dimensions are either completely cukoo, or just pulling your leg.

reply to post by Jnewell33


"The united carpenters and jointers association" sounds like a union. It may be fraternal, but it's not Freemasonry. I gather from your post that you're in Washington state. As such, the only "legitimate" body conferring the 33° would be the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction, and it would say those words in big letters at the top of his dues card.

He could be a union guy, and that and his name might have been enough for him to give you the tour that he did. But I agree with the others in saying that he's pulling your leg on at least some of the rest of it.

reply to post by Jnewell33


Yep, that's a Union card. A lot of the carpenters in my area display stickers on their vehicles and I always have to take a second look.

The symbol is similar to the square and compasses, except it is upside down and reversed.

Since this is a labor union he probably is not a Freemason.

Did he have any big shiny rings?

I only know a few 33rds but the one thing they all have in common is that you would never know they were a 33rd unless somebody else told you. They don't brag and they are all a living example (the ones I know) of piety and service.

The membership cards we get are pretty much just a receipt for our dues to show another lodge if you want to visit. Your dues card shows you are current and then they check a book of lodges to make sure yours is recognized.

Then a test oath is administered and then other stuff goes on inside the meeting that will determine if you are really a mason.

So, anyone can print off a cheesy card on the Intertubes, but only a brother can enter a lodge when meeting through other modes of recognition.

He sounds loony.

While its impossible to know for sure, I would lean toward it being fake. Dues cards are very easy to fake and, for some reason I do not understand, people have made a business out of selling fake masonic stuff like that.

All of the 33rd degrees I have met never make a big deal out of it, and certainly never brag about it. I wouldn't even know most of the 33rds if it wasn't for their caps at Scottish Rite meetings. The wild claims about freemasonry is probably the most obvious evidence that he is not what he claims. He could of course be joking with you but it seems like hes just trying to show off.

I appreciate the input. About the reference to the "carpenters", I meant to imply that the heading of the card resembled the look of my union card. Kinda like like the writing underneath the pyramid on the dollar. My first thought was that it was a fake. The part that just does not add up is the guy has to my knowledge never actually worked in the industry. The other thing is it did say lifetime member, which kinda indicated to me it was a fake. I guess the real question is could his fathers stature enable him into the organization, kinda like a short cut. I understand the Scottish right issue, but as alot of our presidents were also 33rd degree freemasons I don't really see location being a major factor as they all lead to the Grand Lodge I think. We are in Washington state and it just freaks me out to see the picture of his dad shaking hands George H.W. Bush. I know Bush SR has had his hands in everything as a president and the head of the CIA. For now I will assume he's pulling my leg but I will try to get a picture with my camera phone.

Originally posted by Jnewell33
I appreciate the input. About the reference to the "carpenters", I meant to imply that the heading of the card resembled the look of my union card. Kinda like like the writing underneath the pyramid on the dollar. My first thought was that it was a fake. The part that just does not add up is the guy has to my knowledge never actually worked in the industry. The other thing is it did say lifetime member, which kinda indicated to me it was a fake. I guess the real question is could his fathers stature enable him into the organization, kinda like a short cut. I understand the Scottish right issue, but as alot of our presidents were also 33rd degree freemasons I don't really see location being a major factor as they all lead to the Grand Lodge I think. We are in Washington state and it just freaks me out to see the picture of his dad shaking hands George H.W. Bush. I know Bush SR has had his hands in everything as a president and the head of the CIA. For now I will assume he's pulling my leg but I will try to get a picture with my camera phone.

Only 14 presidents have been Master Masons, the last being Ford 30+ years ago. Off the top of my head, I can't say how many have been in the Scottish Rite. I'd guess about a third at most.

Location IS important, because a Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction membership card probably doesn't look like a Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction membership card. No reason why they'd be at all similar, actually... two different organizations entirely. Even as an endowed (lifetime) member, he'd get a new dues card every year. The one in my wallet has a blue bar across the top with "SCOTTISH RITE OF FREEMASONRY, S.J., U.S.A." in white lettering. If he's got anything else, it's likely a fake.

And if the guy knew how to opperate every machine he showed you, why would you doubt that he's worked in that industry?

I am not sure if the Scottish Rite changes due cards between valleys/orients. I would assume not, as it would it could make it hard to identify a visiting brethren. I pulled out my 2008 Scottish Rite due's card and it doesn't look like anything you describe. It has a picture of the House of the Temple in the background, and the 2009 one that I just got has a image of the double headed eagle in the background.

If you live in the Southern Jurisdiction, the cards probably fake. If your in the Northern Jurisdiction, they probably have a different membership card design. I also suppose a lifetime membership card could be different, but I *THINK* they still get a new card every year - anyone of the SR masons on ATS have a lifetime membership that can confirm this?

No family members status is going to let you into freemasonry. Its not something anyone cares about. The status of your friend's father is irrelevant and certainly cannot be used to buy a 33rd degree. Very few of our presidents have been Scottish Rite masons, and only about 1/3 have been masons at all. I count only 5 here:www.guthriescottishrite.org... It looks like the last Scottish Rite Mason president was Truman. I'm not really knowledgeable about "famous masons" though, so if I'm wrong about that I'm sure I will be corrected shortly.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
I am not sure if the Scottish Rite changes due cards between valleys/orients. I would assume not, as it would it could make it hard to identify a visiting brethren. I pulled out my 2008 Scottish Rite due's card and it doesn't look like anything you describe. It has a picture of the House of the Temple in the background, and the 2009 one that I just got has a image of the double headed eagle in the background.

Yeah, my 2008 has the House of the Temple screened back, but it definitely identifies itself as SJ on both the front and the back...

anyone of the SR masons on ATS have a lifetime membership that can confirm this?

Sadly, endowment prices doubled the year before I joined... Going to endow with my home lodge first, and then save up for appendant bodies.

sorry for being ignorant, I was not taking into consideration that aerospace machining may be related to masonry. I was also unaware that there were independent mason sects. I was under the impression they were structured like the catholic church. Many, many groups that operate under the same outline but all still answer directly to the Vatican. He said after the Templar were all but wiped out, the Catholic church was restructured after the Knights Templar due to the massive power they had achived throughout the world and actually replaced Templar positions as the infastructure was already created and the Templars demise created such a huge void in civil affairs. The Masons have a history of introducing honorary members it the Brood so I do not see it being unreasonable he could have achieved this due to his families prior associations or accomplishments but I will take your guys' word for it. Thanks for the thoughts, I kinda figured he was lying but it is still a little surreal to me. Does God represent a lot of different meanings in the Masonic guild. Isn't it left to the individual to determine what God means to them? I thought you just had to believe in something and could not be an athiest.

reply to post by Jnewell33


I think you have some misconceptions about what freemasonry is and is not, and if this person is telling you things it is very safe to say he is not a mason - or at the very most, he is in a irregular or clandestine lodge. A few points of fact:

- There is no relationship, historical or contemporary, between the catholic church, knights templar, and freemasonry. Freemasonry has a side order called the York Rite which has a degree named in honor of the Knights Templar, but the Rite has noted time and again they have no connection to the historical Knights Templar group. Up until about 100 years ago freemasons themselves spread this association, but it turns out there is no evidence for it. Masons would LOVE if there was such a connection as it adds to the mystique, but it just does not exist.

- In the United States, within each state there are usually two Grand Lodges: 1 AFAM/FAM (Ancient Free and Accepted Masons or Free and Accepted Masons) and usually 1 PHA Grand Lodge (Prince Hall Affiliated). The only differences between the two is that AFAM/FAM is often historically white, while PHA is historically African American - but this is changing, and any man of any color can apply to either lodge. These lodges go through the first 3 and only ranks/degrees of freemasonry, stopping at the 3rd degree - Master Mason.

Existing along side each of these grand lodges are "affiliated orders/rites" that required all their members to be Master Masons. Some are invitation only, but the two major ones any Master Mason can be a member of - those are the Scottish and York Rite. The Scottish Rite is the one that most people wrongly believe is the "top" of masonry because it has higher degree numbers going up to the 32, with 33 being honorary. The York Rite has a series of its own degrees which ends with the Knight Templar degree.

The administration of the York/Scottish Rite is also done at the state level, but they also have their own national administrative bodies (unlike the Grand Lodges). The York Rite national body is styled the Grand Encampment and the national bodies of the Scottish Rite are called Supreme Councils. The Scottish Rite has two administrative bodies: one for the northern part of the US and one for the southern. They operate autonomously, as all masonic bodies do.

- It would be completely unreasonable and a violation of the Supreme Council's own rules to allow someone to be given the 33rd degree honor for past family actions. You are only awarded the honor for your OWN outstanding service to your community and/or the Scottish Rite. This is the kind of thing there are no exceptions on. There are quite a lot of 33rd degrees around, but none of them got it for anything except their own merits.

- Freemasonry lets its own members decide what their religion/perception of God is. As long as your God is powerful enough to be the architect of the Universe, thats all that matters.

Thank you very much for the insight. Unfortunately there is so much information out there it is hard to get a real conception of what is truth and theory. The Pope was the one who actually brought forth the charges against the Templar. The Templar were in charge of many building projects throughout Europe and the world so to say there is no connections between Freemasons and the Templar is just doesn't seem correct. Who built the Templar church. Mason are told in ceremonies that it has been around since King Solomons Temple was built. Where there not Masons during the time of the Templars. Templars escorted missionaries and where religous men who believed in Christ. These groups have always been around for the "greater good". Templars worked hand and hand with the catholic church during the crusades, didn't they?

Originally posted by Jnewell33
The Pope was the one who actually brought forth the charges against the Templar.

Pope Clement V disbanded the order under pressure from King Philip of France. He was wary of their wealth and influence and was additionally deeply in debt to the order. It was politically and financially expedient to remove them from further participation in the affiars of the French Empire.

The Templar were in charge of many building projects throughout Europe and the world so to say there is no connections between Freemasons and the Templar is just doesn't seem correct.

Can you please supply examples of building projects which the Knights Templar were "in charge of"? While the Templars may have had interaction with masons these were not Freemasons of the modern variety.

Speculative Masonry arose much later then the decline of the Knights Templar, with the first Grand Lodge being founded in the early 18th century while the Templars were disbanded in the 14th.

Who built the Templar church.

What is "the Templar church"?

Mason are told in ceremonies that it has been around since King Solomons Temple was built.

These is an allegory which meant to teach a spiritual lesson.

Where there not Masons during the time of the Templars.

Yes, see above. They were not Speculative Masons but Operative Masons, meaning that they actually were stonemasons.

Templars escorted missionaries and where religous men who believed in Christ. These groups have always been around for the "greater good".

Any comparison to modern Masonry is lost here as the Knights Templar charged a fee for their protection and escort from Europe to the Holy Lands as well as the return trip. Freemasons do not charge for their time or charity, this is done for the spiritual reward alone.

Templars worked hand and hand with the catholic church during the crusades, didn't they?

How does this relate to Masonry?

The modern Catholic Church, for many years, did not condone its members becoming Freemasons under penalty of excommunication.






[edit on 17-11-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by Jnewell33


The Templars did work for the Catholic church during the Crusades, yes.
They ended up having something of a lucrative business escorting people to the Holy Land.
At the end, however, Prince Philip IV owed them a lot of money, and people were growing suspicious of the Templars. He had them branded as heretics and started having them tortured and burnt at the stake. The Pope at the time may have been suspicious of the Templars, but Philip pressured the church into disavowing the Templars, then past a proclamation that enabled Christian monarchs to arrest and claim Templar lands and belongings.
The Catholic Church recently apologized for their actions.. about a hundred odd years late. Nice of them.

As for Masons being around during the Templars, well... yes. Actual Masons, not the Speculative Freemasons we have today.
Their legends are just that: legends.
FreeMasonry probably came from operative StoneMasons, which gradually inducted Speculative masons into their groups.
Over time, a lot of legends got tacked on to make FreeMasonry to make it more impressive, which helps to make it hard to distinguish a lot of myths from FreeMasonry as well.

Edit; AugustusMasonicus beat me to it, and he also remembered the part about the Pope and Freemasonry.
However, as far as I'm aware, the RCC is still against FreeMasonry. Local churches may or may not pay attention to the Pope's mandate, however. There were some preachers who announced themselves as FreeMasons.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by RuneSpider]

www.sacred-destinations.com...

The Temple Church in England

The legend of Robert Bruce and Scotland is very interesting. Even though the legend itself is lacks any factual proof, it is interesting that it was advocated originally by masons. It would make sense not to have knowledge disclosed to you until you reached the highest of levels, to make sure you are committed but as you said there are many 33rd degree mason in the world and if there really was something going on, I am pretty sure the guy I was questioning wouldn't have anything to do with it cause his stories are pretty out there.

reply to post by Jnewell33


Again, the 33rd degree is not the highest degree. That would be the Master Mason. The Scottish Rite is one of a number of side degrees, and, while practiced no now somewhat officially in Europe, is still mostly a American Degree system.
The number of a degree is like adding on decorative icing to three layer cake.
No matter how much decoration you put on it, it's still no better than a plain three layer cake.
As for the Templar Church, the only mention of masons would be the actual Operative masons of the time, not the FreeMasons of today.

reply to post by Jnewell33


I just spent the time writing out the structure of masonry and illustrating how there are no "high levels" and that the Scottish Rite has the dubious honor of being WRONGLY associated with "high level freemasons" simply because its degrees have higher number values. People WRONGLY believe that higher numbers is equal to higher rank or authority, and they completely ignore that the Scottish Rite is a optional autonomous body that must compete for membership with other optional autonomous bodies that require their members to be Master Masons, like the York Rite. The highest degree of Freemasonry is the 3rd degree, other degrees are from side bodies that build upon the lesson of freemasonry's first three degrees.

The myth of a templar/freemasonry connection is nothing more than a historical example of attempt to trump up the mystique and grandeur of the organization. It would be nice if it were true, masons themselves would like to believe it, but the historical research on the matter completely debunks it. I know of a handful of brothers who still are misinformed on this matter or simply want to believe it, but I'd say 95% of them, including the 33rd degree masons (who again are not in a position of power or authority), know this is not true.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by Jnewell33
I appreciate the input. About the reference to the "carpenters", I meant to imply that the heading of the card resembled the look of my union card. Kinda like like the writing underneath the pyramid on the dollar. My first thought was that it was a fake. The part that just does not add up is the guy has to my knowledge never actually worked in the industry. The other thing is it did say lifetime member, which kinda indicated to me it was a fake. I guess the real question is could his fathers stature enable him into the organization, kinda like a short cut. I understand the Scottish right issue, but as alot of our presidents were also 33rd degree freemasons I don't really see location being a major factor as they all lead to the Grand Lodge I think. We are in Washington state and it just freaks me out to see the picture of his dad shaking hands George H.W. Bush. I know Bush SR has had his hands in everything as a president and the head of the CIA. For now I will assume he's pulling my leg but I will try to get a picture with my camera phone.

Sorry about that. I thought you meant it said carpenters and joiners.

A Mason dues card would probably be blue (ours is) with a square and compass, except the compass would be on top and the square on bottom - sort of upside down from the union card.

It's possible it said 'lifetime member'. In our lodge if your dues are current you can buy a 'lifetime membership' for $750 and get a permanent card.

I'm not sure what any of the other cards may look like. I chose to go through York Rite, which leads to the Knight Templar degree, but 32nds and 33rds I believe go through Scottish Rite.

I didn't get a card thus far in York, but I did get a penny!