Mozart's 40th symphony at a speed faster than light

Koeln physics professor Guenther Nimtz, used a hollow metal pipe, called a wave transducer. On the end of the Ca. 20 cm long metal pipe a section of Mozart's Symphony #40 became audible through an amplifier. Not digital quality, but good enough for radio. There was a speed change of the waves that were transduced. This tunnel effect was 4.7 x C [c = speed of light]. The lengths of the microwaves that Nimtz chose were actually too wide for the wave transducer. But still some of them found their way through the other side to the amplifier. In the tunnel occurrence the waves do not seem to require any time. Whereas outside the tunnel the waves were well behaving enough to follow the classical laws and travel at the speed of light. Mozart's symphony has information content, Nimtz contends.

www.akasha.de...

Did Mozart beat Einstein speed of light limit or does it work for all type of Music?
If it is only Mozart's Symphony #40, what is so special on this symphony?


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[edit on 16/11/08 by Jbird]

Wow. I can't even begin to digest what all of this means, but it seems like it should be important.

Can someone break this down into something we all can understand as far as what this means? Implications?

www.telegraph.co.uk...

However, Dr Gunter Nimtz and Dr Alfons Stahlhofen, of the University of Koblenz, say they may have breached a key tenet of that theory.

The pair say they have conducted an experiment in which microwave photons - energetic packets of light - travelled "instantaneously" between a pair of prisms that had been moved up to 3ft apart.

Being able to travel faster than the speed of light would lead to a wide variety of bizarre consequences.

The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws.

Faster as the speed of light !!! How does it work ?

i think its more of a push effect. like those little metal balls that hand on thread, when one on the end hits it pops the one on the other end out. It didn't have to actually travel, it just used the energy transfer. or like a nerf gun. You push the back of the pipe and the ball shoots out the other end.

interesting thread and a very interesting link its the sort of thing i am looking at or being drawn to look at at the mo so thanks

waves passing through a certain medium can obtain faster than light speed because the speed of the wave is directly proportional to the wave length

In a normal dispersive medium, the velocity of a wave is proportional to its wavelength, resulting in a group velocity that is slower than the average velocity of its constituent waves. But in an "anomalously" dispersive medium -- one that becomes highly absorbing or attenuating at certain frequencies -- velocity is inversely proportional to wavelength, meaning that the group velocity can become much faster.

Indeed, the group velocity of light has already been shown to travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum. But until now, superluminal acoustic waves have existed only in theory, and would require the group velocity to increase almost a million times over.

But what exactly is a superluminal phenomenon? Here is a short answer from Eric Weisstein's World of Physics.

A superluminal phenomenon is a frame of reference traveling with a speed greater than the speed of light c. There is a putative class of particles dubbed tachyons which are able to travel faster than light. Faster-than-light phenomena violate the usual understanding of the "flow" of time, a state of affairs which is known as the causality problem (and also called the "Shalimar Treaty").
Anyway, this was the purpose of the experiment designed by William Robertson from Middle Tennessee State University with the help of some colleagues and students. And their research work was recently published by Applied Physics Letters under the name "Sound beyond the speed of light: measurement of negative group velocity in an acoustic loop filter" (Volume 90, Issue 1, Article 014102, January 1, 2007). Here is a link to the abstract.

The results confirm recent theoretical predictions that faster-than-light group velocity propagation of sound is possible. Further, the results show that the spectral rephasing achieved in a loop filter is sufficient to produce negative group velocities independent of the phase velocity of the spectral components themselves. Thus, superluminal propagation is realized despite almost six orders of magnitude difference between the speeds of sound and light.

www.primidi.com...



[edit on 16-11-2008 by constantwonder]

Originally posted by hawk123
Did Mozart beat Einstein speed of light limit or does it work for all type of Music?
If it is only Mozart's Symphony #40, what is so special on this symphony?

No, it doesn't work with all music. Mozart's Symphony No. 40 is special, because Western musical scale comprises 5 chromatic and 8 diatonic notes. Since 5 x 8 = 40, any composition catalogued as No. 40 is special and has a chance to travel faster than light. That's because 40 = 5 x 8, where 5 and 8 are the last two digits of the speed of light, which is 299 792 458 m / s.

That means only those musical composition based on the Western musical scale can travel faster than light.

Mozart didn't really beat Einstein

because Einstein's Violin Etude No. 40 moved faster than Mozart's Symphony.

reply to post by stander


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Just watch someone go, "WOW THAT'S INTERESTING, I NOW LOVE NUMEROLOGY"

Originally posted by hawk123

Koeln physics professor Guenther Nimtz, used a hollow metal pipe, called a wave transducer. On the end of the Ca. 20 cm long metal pipe a section of Mozart's Symphony #40 became audible through an amplifier. Not digital quality, but good enough for radio. There was a speed change of the waves that were transduced. This tunnel effect was 4.7 x C [c = speed of light]. The lengths of the microwaves that Nimtz chose were actually too wide for the wave transducer. But still some of them found their way through the other side to the amplifier. In the tunnel occurrence the waves do not seem to require any time. Whereas outside the tunnel the waves were well behaving enough to follow the classical laws and travel at the speed of light. Mozart's symphony has information content, Nimtz contends.

www.akasha.de...

Did Mozart beat Einstein speed of light limit or does it work for all type of Music?
If it is only Mozart's Symphony #40, what is so special on this symphony?


Mod Note: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16/11/08 by Jbird]

No doubt, this will lead to other technology's that we have yet to understand. Just think of it, what if someone in the 1930's were told that one day they could have a phone that was the size of there palm, be able to talk to one another with out wires( not to mention the internet)and be powered by a small battery for days as well as talk to anyone around the world..They would call you crazy...

If this were real, here is how to send messages back to yourself from tomorrow and clean up in the stock market, or dominate the world.
no matter that the signal only comes back a millisecond earlier than sent.

It is really very simple, you put two or more of these together in a loop you keep cleaning and restoring the signal image with each pass, so it does not degrade. Around and around the signal goes progressively going minutely farther back in time until the signal emerges a significant period of time before it was sent.

This is the reason I do not believe this story. It is simply too easy to implement a working device, and apparently no one has bothered to do that for many years.

I found more information, which does not show a relation with Mozart at al.

frank.mtsu.edu...

Can you build this yourself ?

HAHA! The question now becomes... Did this experiment give Mozart the melody for his symphony?...

In all seriousness, this is amazing news, if true at all.

reply to post by stander


Do you honestly believe that?? Really?

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


interesting question and if the answer is yes then was he aware of it??

reply to post by stander


Your proof breaks down at the point where you use meters instead of miles. This is due in part to certain reasons numerology prefers the standard over metric. Thus science and faith shall remain strangers.

However, it is a beautiful attempt, and certainly makes more sense than other theories out there. For shooting from the hip. I wouldn't want to get caught in your line of fire if you actually tried...

Was it in 440 pitch or 432?

And...would it matter?

Originally posted by Matyas
reply to post by stander

 

Your proof breaks down at the point where you use meters instead of miles. This is due in part to certain reasons numerology prefers the standard over metric. Thus science and faith shall remain strangers.

Are you for real?

If "numerology prefers the standard" (miles per second or hour) why did I choose to write down the speed of light in meters per second?

Originally posted by whitewave
Was it in 440 pitch or 432?

And...would it matter?

Of course it would matter. The speed of music depends on the concert pitch. Since the Western musical scale -- the building material that a composition is made of -- comprises 5 chromatic and 8 diatonic notes, and 5 x 8 = 40, the standard pitch frequency must end with number 40. Hence A = 440 Hz.

The standard pitch 440 Hz was first adopted by the American music industry on June 11 1925 to accommodate the experiments with the speed of music that was theoretically predicted to exceed the speed of light. That was four years after Albert Einstein visited for the first time the USA.

The first experiments brought about a phenomenon: Only Mozart's Symphony No. 40 could propagate faster then light; other pieces of music catalogued as No. 40 (there were not too many though) didn't exceed the limit.

I think it was in 1930 when the phenomenon was solved: The chromatic times diatonic notes, or 5 x 8 = 40, selected the order of the composition, but only when the chromatic plus diatonic notes, or 5 + 8 = 13, formula was taken into account, the mystery was solved: Notes are named after letters, and when the result of 5 + 8 was turned into a letter according to the alphabetical order (the order of things preserved), it was easy to solve the unknown variable M.

5 + 8 = 13 = M => M__________?




[edit on 11/18/2008 by stander]

The reason I ask is because Mozart lived 1756-1791 (or somewhere around then) and would most surely have used the 432 pitch since, as you pointed out, the 440 pitch was not adopted until 1925.

What are the implications? Are you suggesting that faster than light travel is possible by playing Mozart?

Also, using the chromatic times diatonic notes converted into ENGLISH letters (only, I presume) produce this phenomena?

Not trying to give you a hard time. Just trying to understand. I, obviously, need more explanation.

Thanks in advance for spelling it out.

Originally posted by whitewave
The reason I ask is because Mozart lived 1756-1791 (or somewhere around then) and would most surely have used the 432 pitch since, as you pointed out, the 440 pitch was not adopted until 1925.

Why do you suggest he had A tuned to 432 Hz? en.wikipedia.org...(music) gives no mention of this ever being used. Neither does www.uk-piano.org...


Also I'd like to suggest that there is nothing special about Mozart's music, it was just used to give an example of the fact that actual 'information' in the form of music was able to be transmitted faster than light.

That said, I'm skeptical of the results. Have they been published in a credible peer-reviewed journal?

[edit on 18-11-2008 by science lol]