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How can we be certain that the 1% of UFO reports that cant be explained are not military?

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posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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well glad I've generated some interest and debate.

The 1% figure was plucked from the top of my head, maybe I should have written X% as, you're right, who knows the exact %.

I'm neither a skeptic or a true believer, and certainly no expert, but read the subject with interest, and I do like and try to look at both sides, and at present, I cant see much on the alien side apart from grainy videos, hearsay, 3rd hand stories and misidentifications I'm more leaning towards mil. tech.

From attending lectures by the likes of UKs Tim Mathews (back in the early 90s) about how stealth technology was around in prototype form since the late 60s / early 70s and how many of the FTs were being seen around mil. bases, I think theres a good argument for proposing that what we are seeing / experiencing is simply mil. tech. or maybe not.

I think sometimes we forget that we have some brilliant minds on this planet more than able to develop truly awe inspiring technologys. I dont buy any of the Day After Roswell stuff, as, it seems we were already well on our way to developing this stuff anyway.

POS

[edit on 6-11-2008 by pinchofsalt]




posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:24 AM
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I still consider military technology a valid possibility, but if true, then why is all this amazing technology being kept hidden? That's my only problem with the military explanation. I mean, it doesn't discredit the possibility, but the question still remains. Why hide such amazing technology?! What good is it if no one can use it? What good is it if even the military isn't using it? I mean, they're technically using it, but why use it only to mess with people's minds? What purpose is it serving?

[edit on 6-11-2008 by GrayFox]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by GrayFox
 


The blind leaving the blind is a reference to the "believers" who believe despite not having any hard evidence. I'm certainly not saying that's the whole story - there are certainly some who go about it in a competent manner, but these people don't assume that just because something can't be explained, it has to be ET.

For sure there are UFOs - I have seen 3 (that I could not explain or identify). What I am saying, is that even the professionals can't always identify every object (NASA has made mistakes for example), and if that's the case, then how can you expect most other people to accurately ID an object!

Some sightings might well be real ETs (although I think its unlikely), but to find these is like looking for a needle in a hay stack - the best hope to find them, is to be ruthless, and to discard anything that can be ruled out due to known celestial/terrestrial phenomena. Mistakenly including sightings that can be explained only makes the scientific community/general public less likely to accept the possibility that ETs could exist/might be visiting us.

Unless the UFO movement makes sure it's not touting explainable phenomena as UFOs, no one will ever know what percentage (if any) are truly unexplainable.

To actually prove something is real, there has to be no chance that a mistake has been made - any wiggle room, and the case crumbles because there is a chance (however small) that a misidentification has been made. This makes me feel personally, that if ETs are ever proved to be visiting us here, the evidence will be irrefutable and unmistakable... so far, nothing has done that, that I have seen.

Does that clarify my stance on this matter for you?

[edit on 6-11-2008 by C.H.U.D.]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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Yep, that makes it clear, thanks.


Anyone have any clue why they'd hide amazing technology and never use it? I'm talking mostly about reports of ships/objects that hide for large periods of time. As someone else said, countries are usually eager to use their new toys when there's a war. They want to use every advantage they have.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by GrayFox
 


They are not hiding them, usually when they are seen by people in the states they are testing them. Once they have fully been tested they are used in the field. The stealth bomber and fighter were used in the field for many years before the military even acknowledged their existance and even then they were slow to admit thier existance. And the only reason they came forward with these when they did is because there was so much dat leaked to news agencies and they already had the next secret planes in use that they could come forward.

The military is not just going to come forward and state that they are using highly secretive stealth technology, especially when it needs to remain a secret in order to be effective.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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Couple of thoughts -

1. Why would they use their very latest technologies now and alert any potential enemies to their technology and its abilities/weaknesses?
Surely they would hold them back until they absolutely had to use them, and instead using the 'current' weapons tech to fight their wars (i.e. F22 Raptors), as is happening.

2. I imagine most of these new technologies are not in production, simply working prototypes, so not capable of being used in theatre. I'm sure alot of the sightings of FTs etc is probably prototype craft and I've yet to hear any convincing evidence to make me believe that its back engineered ET tech - actually on that matter where on earth (pun intended) did the rumour that many FTs were back engineered from ET craft come from?



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Get an older UFO book maybe copyrighted in the 1980's or so then look at the pics in them. There is one UFO pic I know of for sure was a govt. aircraft and the pic was said to have been taken in 1972. The govt. claims that aircraft wasn't even conceived until the early to mid 80's. When in fact it was flying in the air at the very earliest 1980 when the book was published.

I showed the pic to my friends every single one of them knew what it was. They all laughed when I showed them the dates and they said "it figures"

I would mention the book and all but hate to see it disappear from store shelves.

So just check your local library and look at the old UFO photo's in the paranormal encyclopedias and UFO books. No need to read them just scan the pictures.

That is what convinced me most all UFO's chances are our military. However I don't believe every single one is just most of them.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by AlienCarnage
 


Good point. They might be saving the weapons for something catastrophic like the next world war. It does make sense. Why tease American citizens with the technology though?

And about the alien hypothesis.... we really don't know how likely or unlikely it is that some UFOs could be alien. Without specifically knowing (and not just believing) that they exist, how many races exist, their technology, their distance from Earth.... we just can't determine it without some of those variables. They could have scouts assigned to monitor us (possibly AI controlled).... and we could be under permanent surveillance for all we know. Or maybe they send one ship every thousand years... or never. Though this all just leads us back to the main problem... we just don't know. Aliens can not be ruled out, but we definitely can't assume everything is an alien ship either.

Occam's razor says to avoid making assumptions as much as possible. There's a problem though. What do we do now that we're pretty sure something is going on, but just don't know what that something is exactly? We can sit and wait for proof, but who knows how long that could take? We already have evidence. We need to use the evidence to find proof.... somehow.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by GrayFox]



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by GrayFox
 





Why tease American citizens with the technology though?


They aren't realy teasing citizens, they test the aircraft in the open because they know that the UFO culture will more than likely classify things as alien in origin.

By letting the UFO mythology stay in place, they actually help themselves.

It is my belief, this is just a belief mind you, that when military and ex-military peronell come forward with top secret information in interviews, it is done so based on orders, yes even ex-military do follow orders. Now I am not saying all of them that have come forward are doing so based on orders, but some do. The reason for this is to Perpetuate the UFO mythology into staying around by adding testimony from people who most would consider reliable sources, which helps hide the testing of military craft under thy guise of "it must be something alien". Some of the military personell that have come forward might not be "in the know" about secret projects and have seen the test aircraft flying and believe them to be alien, because their lack of knowledge about secret projects, which still has the same end result. What realy helps the military add credit to UFO mythology is that they make sure they threaten people about comming forward with testimony, hoping it will lead people to talk about the threats which makes it seem as though the government is hiding alien secrets not test aircraft secrets.

Now this is all speculation, but I do have family and friends in the military, some high up and some as low as foot soldier, and with dealing with them, this to me sounds like the mindset the military would take.

I am not saying that now and again there might actually be a real alien UFO sighting amongst the many military craft sightings, but the majority would be military, and would be hard to differ between the two.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by AlienCarnage
 


Yeah, especially when you consider that there's a slight possibility that they -could- be using alien technology. Once again, just a possibility though. The only problem (for them) is that they're encouraging people to say "What the heck was that?!" If the objects aren't really alien, then all they're doing is promoting interest in top secret technologies. I suppose they're just going with a plan and taking the risks that go along with it.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by GrayFox
 


If you think about it though, there are more people who relate these to alien sightings than do top secret craft. Either way they have to do testing, and yes they risk alot by testing out in the open, but if they can have even have half the population believing these are alien craft then it still aids in their cover.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by pinchofsalt
Ok, just playing the skeptic for the moment,

I've read these boards for a couple of years and fairly well read in the UFO area for the past 20 years and just wondering is there any REAL proof that what people are experiencing is not simply military technology?

Lots of hearsay, stories, second and third hand reports of alien technology, recovered discs etc etc, but without knowing what exactly the military has up its sleeve how can anyone be certain that any of it has anything to do with aliens. Is there even a single case (not hearsay) that proves beyond any doubt that it isnt military tech?


I think the best argument against that, is the fact that exceptionally weird UFO sightings began en masse during WWII perhaps sooner. I'm speaking of the foo fighters. I can't imagine human technology that advanced existing in the time period. It's a fuzzy line that will only get worse. I believe there are cutting edge weapons systems far beyond current mainstream scientific knowledge. The quote from Dr Oberth, about receiving help from people of other worlds, is a fairly damning statement. Unless you think he was purposefully spreading disinfo, you have to take that statement from a man of his stature seriously.



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