This man really knew what he was talking about

I don't understand the "go with Christ" and "come to Jesus" stuff. I think the idea is to buy into a lie and then stay with the story so that you get indoctrinated into being a limpy pacific hulk, or worse, turned into a holy warrior for the church. I just don't get why, after admitting to being a huge pile of crap I have to also adopt new rules that I already follow. Just amazing to me.

Anyways, people become popular for being "deep" in a shallow way like the guy above me posted.

Originally posted by rcwj75
You know if people stopped listening to retards like Lennon and Ghandi

That's a wonderful way to paint two people who were trying to spead peace and love in this world.
Who else can we lump into your group of "retards" as you like to call them?
Well let's see, who else tried to spread messages of peace and love?
The first people who come to mind are Jesus and Mother Teresa, quickly followed by almost every other religious or spiritual icon who has ever existed.

Keep that in mind when you're standing at the gate and God himself (or herself) looks at you and says "retard eh?"

Although I agree that we should look inside of ourselves, rather than to external figures...
You really need to find a new way to express yourself...

Originally posted by BeyondBelow
The beatles were advocating socialism and the destruction of organized religion, before you paint him a siant look into their involvement in mk ultra as well as the subliminal messages found in their and specificly his music then come back and get mushy about his so called inspired music.

Wow, what government misinformation agency sent you here to ATS?.... I don't think that I have ever heard anything so distorted and deviating from the truth in my soon to be 59 years on this planet.... The MK Ultra thing is so ironic though. It has long been considered that Mark David Chapman was programmed by MK Ultra, as his behavior following Lennon's murder was similar to others that have been thought to have been products of the same. Do some research and see what you can come up with to substantiate what you have said.... Sincerely, I am curious, as well as disturbed by your beliefs, if they are your beliefs at all.

Originally posted by rcwj75
You know if people stopped listening to retards like Lennon and Ghandi and started doing things for/by themseleves and found some inner pride we wouldnt have to lean on or call on others to give us strength or hope...we would have it. Having a role model, favorite singer / actor / actress, etc...is fine but when you start believing THEIR words and THEIR way of life are what YOU need to do...your in serious trouble..IMO...stop looking for heros and look inside YOURSELF for once...make your own life, your own way, and you would be suprised how much better it is and how much happier you are!!!

that makes no sense...

the whole point of having people to look up to, is they inspire you. just as anyone else does. the people you have in your life, or what you end up amounting to. 9 our of 10 times, you end up like your mother or father. Same with anything in life. If you look up to positive people who are sending a good message.. then it makes you much more positive, rather than looking up to people who get high and have sex every day, im pretty sure youd end up just like them

really think about what your saying before crap comes out of your mouth.

ghandi was no retard. he changed the lives of millions of people by inspiring them. Same with lennon. You are too ignorant to listen to their messages. congrats.

reply to post by calihan123


Another man 2,000 years ago also sang the same song, Jesus was his name. He also wanted all the world to be at peace. To love one another as we love ourselves. Why do we forget his words and romance about the words of a drug crazed man? Makes no sense to me............Jesus was here to show us the way and was put to death because men did not want to hear what he was giving. So sad, he was here on this earth and we still did not know who he was.

Jesus was one of the anointed ones, and possibly anointed with some of the same substance used by people like John Lennon, and many others that advocated peace, love and equality during both periods.... TPTB don't like it when people think, and speak, of peaceful coexistence now or in Biblical times it appears.

The basic assumption here is that religion causes the corruption of humankind. Whereas many of us believe that the corruption of humankind necessitates and is moderated by religion.

It boils down to your basic view of humankind: is man intrinsically good or evil? Will we, in the absence of influence of any kind, choose to do the good?

I think it is a mistake to assume that "all the people" "living for today" would actually be "living life in peace".

Now, if these theoretical people who didn't believe in heaven or hell also had no greed or hunger and did not own possessions, a case could be made for the living life in peace result. However, there are so many other things which corrupt humans besides religion that I don't think a case can be made for doing away with heaven and hell to produce Utopia.

Now, if humans weren't by nature greedy, and didn't want to own all the toys (did you have to TEACH your kids to say "mine!" or did it come naturally?), this kind of Utopia might be possible in the short term. But do such people exist? CAN they exist?

Mankind, IMO, is not fundamentally good. We are fundamentally flawed and need structure, rules, and even faith to keep us from killing each other.

I know I am one of those people. I dont care about posessions. I move all the time and every time I do I give all of my things away so I can travel with just a few things and not 20 suitcases. I dont judge people. I dont go to church, but I believe im a VERY good person, with good judgement, and I help others when I can, and I think I do a lot more than many people who DO go to church. So I think church has nothing to do with how a person turns out.

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by calihan123

 

Another man 2,000 years ago also sang the same song, Jesus was his name. He also wanted all the world to be at peace. To love one another as we love ourselves. Why do we forget his words and romance about the words of a drug crazed man? Makes no sense to me............Jesus was here to show us the way and was put to death because men did not want to hear what he was giving. So sad, he was here on this earth and we still did not know who he was.

First off you can't prove that Jesus ever even existed.
All you have is a 2,000 year old account that has been rewitten, and edited over and over.

Second of all if I were to try to compare John Lennon to Jesus (in a positive way) I would be flamed for it, and ridiculed.
Not to mention that some overzealous christian fanatics would want me dead, or to burn in hell for even suggesting such a thing.
So why do you get to compare them in a bad way and it's ok?

"Jesus was here to show us the way and was put to death because men did not want to hear what he was giving." The same can be said about Lennon.

And how do you know that Jesus wasn't a "drug crazed man" as well?
He admitted to seeing things that weren't there, hearing things that nobody else could, and even claimed that he was the son of God, and God himself at the same time.
What would we call someone who made these claims today? Nutbag? Fruitcase? Lunatic? Soft in the head? A danger to himself and others?

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
I'm not "slamming Jesus"
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy organized religion has brainwashed you with, without you even realizing it.

I always love your responses to posts. You always have very good points.

I, myself, dont personally believe jesus existed, and if he did, i believe he probably was doing hallucinogens. Its a known fact that many many people have been doing natural drugs forever. Maybe jesus was just a cool israelian hippy. I mean he did have long hair. My dad sure as heck looked like jesus, and he was a major hippy. Id rather think of jesus as being that way

reply to post by calihan123


Thank you
I try to think as far "out of the box" as I can without going completely off the deepend. (which I also sometimes do)

I just think that people should learn to think for themselves, and question what they are told.

Just the fact that most people ASSUME that Jesus was a white guy, about 6 feet tall, blond hair, blue eyes, and pretty much looked like a long lost member of the Bee Gees, should show you that they don't question what they are told to believe.

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
reply to post by calihan123

 

Thank you

I try to think as far "out of the box" as I can without going completely off the deepend. (which I also sometimes do)

I just think that people should learn to think for themselves, and question what they are told.

Just the fact that most people ASSUME that Jesus was a white guy, about 6 feet tall, blond hair, blue eyes, and pretty much looked like a long lost member of the Bee Gees, should show you that they don't question what they are told to believe.

HAha beegees. good group

yeah i mean who knows? maybe jesus was a musician and he healed people through music

Originally posted by calihan123
I dont care about posessions...
I dont judge people...
I believe im a VERY good person...
with good judgement...
and I help others when I can...
and I think I do a lot more than many people...

As a Christian, if I heard another Christian say what you just said, I would say they were being self-righteous.

Self-righteous: believing one's self to be a righteous person because of what one has done/accomplished.

I will not accuse you of that.

I used to think I was a basically good person, who would never do anything really wrong. There is still a part of me that wants to believe that, but as I have grown older I have become more aware of how base human nature really is, and I have reached a level of maturity to be able to recognize my own selfishness. I also have realized that during my 20's, when I thought I was such a great person, I was probably more selfish than at any other time in my adult life. I have since become less selfish and yet more aware of my own selfishness.

I think that this awareness is more a function of age and experience, though, than of religion.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by OuttaHere]

Originally posted by OuttaHere

Originally posted by calihan123
I dont care about posessions...
I dont judge people...
I believe im a VERY good person...
with good judgement...
and I help others when I can...
and I think I do a lot more than many people...

As a Christian, if I heard another Christian say what you just said, I would say they were being self-righteous.

Self-righteous: believing one's self to be a righteous person because of what one has done/accomplished.

I will not accuse you of that.

I used to think I was a basically good person, who would never do anything really wrong. There is still a part of me that wants to believe that, but as I have grown older I have become more aware of how base human nature really is, and I have reached a level of maturity to be able to recognize my own selfishness. I also have realized that during my 20's, when I thought I was such a great person, I was probably more selfish than at any other time in my adult life. I have since become less selfish and yet more aware of my own selfishness.

I think that this awareness is more a function of age and experience, though, than of religion.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by OuttaHere]

I never said i never make mistakes. I just said i do my part on doing as much as i can, without having to go to church to learn how to be a good person.

You dont need religion in your life to do good things in the world.

NO FIGHTING! Please.

Ya, well...humans are neither evil or good, we develop a "morality" based on "mortality" over time. Absolutes are moot - Jesus was said to be perfect...nice thought but then again that probably takes a more artistically suited mind to pick up on that notion. I think, well I have learned from...having to go to the hospital for an eval twice...that psychological state and manipulation leads to mysticism and perceived psychosis. Man, there are some messed up people (I am the first to admit I am one of them) around...we can also suffer from trauma induced and substance instigated, uhm, enhancements to our normal status.

I am not a scholar in any one religion and I have learned the most from Zoroastrian tradition than anything else so far (I was raised non-divisional "christian"). I like to expose myself to letting my mind fly free of an iron grip (without drugs that's been fine so far, with drugs...not a good thing) while taking in the thoughts, feelings, emotions, and environments of the people who wrote down the words in a religious text. Uhm, a churchy leader guy told me once upon a time that we do not have the whole "book" and no matter how right we are in our eyes we don't even understand what we do have.

EDIT : silly thing chopped half of my post. Hmm, applied metaphysics in the world of MIT.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by SolarSeaman]