Is Svali legit?

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posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


The rest of doug's comment:



an indispensable resource in this discussion is the book ‘remembering trauma’ by professor richard mcnally, who has been good enough to speak with me and answer many of my questions throughout my research.
i agree with you that unilateral opinions and false generalizations do nobody any good, and one certainly shouldn’t simply dismiss any claim of abuse out-of-hand. just the same, we must concede what we do and don’t know about memory, the brain, and trauma, which indicate that we should approach claims of recovered memories with caution and skepticism.




posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Then there is this scientific explanation of "memories"


The research focused on the brain's amygdala, which has previously been shown to store fear memories. However, prior studies have indicated that the amygdala does not discriminate among the different threats it holds and processes. In other words, whether you are afraid of dogs because you were once bitten by a dog or you are afraid of pizza because you once nearly choked to death eating it, all the amygdala remembers is that both of these experiences were scary. By contrast, other brain areas, such as cortex, ensures that all other aspects of these fearful events in your life are remembered.

The scientists on the Nature Neuroscience study sought to determine if there were differences in how the amygdala processes and remembers fears. To do so, they focused on a process called memory consolidation in which an experience is captured, or encoded, then stored. Once consolidation occurs, memories may be long lasting -- one experience may create memories that last a lifetime. However, whenever recalled, memories become labile -- that is, susceptible to changes.


How the brain stores fear memories

More of the same:


The researchers looked at memory consolidation and reconsolidation. Memory consolidation is the neurological process we undergo to store memories after an experience. However, memory is dynamic and changes when new experiences bring to mind old memories. As a result, the act of remembering makes the memory vulnerable until it is stored again -- this process is called reconsolidation. During this period, new information may be incorporated into the old memory.


Memory reconsolidation complex
edit on 25-1-2013 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by King Seesar
 


Nice to see you again, too, my CT friend....


Perhaps you missed my comment that neither Wheeler, Gunderson, Brice, any of them, have ever been able to provide any kind of scientific or physiologic "explanation" to illustrate the mechanism by how they claim this "programming" took place.

What if I told you I could walk through walls? First, you'd ask me to prove it. Second, you'd want to know how I could manage to break the known laws of physics to do it. If I couldn't give you evidence of either, you'd call me a liar and never give me a second thought. Yet you consume the delusions of the "programming CT" with relish?
edit on 25-1-2013 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


I never said i agree with any of them 100 percent what i have said else were is that if you take what one person says in relation to this topic (programming, the existence of cabals ect ect) and figure about 50 percent of what they each say is true and leave 50 percent for error then your on to something however i have said in the past that the four people that i think go past the 50 percent mark in terms of being right are Fritz Springmeier Zeph Daniel Ted Gunderson and Bill Cooper....


I have read the skeptics info that you have provided and i think there results are much like you said the delusions of Fritz Springmeier and Ted Gunderson are and that is inconclusive, for instance one simple thing i could point out from the info you provided is how the memory deals with fear, the info shows that some one might choke on pizza or they were bit by a dog and alls the memory stores is a basic fear of such, but what happens when someone is tortured over and over again, not being bit by a dog then choking on pizza five years later but constant trauma over and over again then what.....

I mean we have debated this before you wonder why i believe some of this stuff and i wonder why you don't i think there's enough evidence to connect the dots this way and you don't...

I'll say this, i have seen enough in my life time to not rule out anything and science is flawed because we don't know everything....



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Here's a document i came across in another thread it gos into detail about how some one can indeed be hypnotized and or mind controlled you should take a look at....some pretty interesting stuff...


hypnotism.org...



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


mechanics to explain how in simple terms is same active process you use to program your children in various situations while main process of program is when delta brains emerge at 9 years old and it need to exist in blured version previous years.
Over 36 years old you cannot change behavior patterns what you learned until 13 years old.
it is same mechanism you can use to program your children black is white if you confirm from several another sources black is white in timeline when subjects learn colors.

example of programming:
people in mauritania learns "Fat women is perfect" "if not fat, no good for merry" so they feed children with excessive amount of milk from newborn to be fat. Children with delta waves see such behavior confirmed from various family sources and accept it as normal and they continue to transfer that program.

Reason from such behavior is not know to them (it died 15000 years ago) after 10 billions neadretals genocide (eating human flesh since no food) keeping their young in family while lived in rapid depopulation (old living with young, no outside contact during).
such programming left today non unified generational reason transfer from older generation (over 36 years) of idiotic behavior non compatible with today reality, but with programs of expecting overpopulation.
edit on 2/1/2013 by B3... because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


They're betting on most people being like you CIAGypsy... because you're right... there isn't someone going on (controlled) MSM exposing this stuff, proving they are at the top, going through a 4 hour powerpoint hashing out all of the details with verifiable information and evidence, renouncing their deeds and affiliation, and calling for an end to all of the intricate and long thought out plans. We won't ever see that... nope... the version we can only hope for is that at some point they make a mistake and fall on their own. There is always deniability when you have money, power, and influence.

Do you think all who lived in Nazi Germany were well informed from the beginning of Hitler and his Nazi party that he planned on world domination and extermination of the undesirables? Absolutely not... it required several years of propaganda, deception, conditioning, indoctrinating, and manipulating to convince a majority of the nation that his way was the right way. Would that not be considered mind control? And if this illogical acceptance of ideas can't be called mind control, what would you call it? You admit that MK Ultra was a real thing, albeit much less sinister than the CTs say it is, but how do you know that? Are you aware that he director of the CIA during the time MK Ultra was exposed ordered the destruction of countless documents before the hearings could bring them to the light of day? FOIA was only able to release a fraction of the original documents. Explain to us why you think he would have done that? He didn't want his grandma's secret chocolate chip cookie recipe getting out to the public? What about ARTICHOKE? Then there's the issue of your adament arguments against mind control as being "physiologically impossible". Though I think we can all agree, as well as the admission from the scientific community, that we know about as much about how the brain works as an ant knows about the laws of thermo-dynamics. That being said, it amazes me that you can so confidently denounce the possibilities of mind control.

I digress because there is endless, ENDLESS amounts of information and cases that easily defend the reality of powerful people utilizing mind control. So for you to continually nay say the mention of the possibility that there could be a clandestine group of people working together to bring about some goal of theirs through secrecy and intimidation is borderline insanity... denial of history and the rotten nature of humanity to say the least.

I noticed in your posts that you enforce your opinion with the argument that something just doesn't make sense. I live in a world where a lot of things don't make sense, especially human behavior, but that doesn't mean that something that seems nonsensical isn't if not completely, partially based in reality.

I also noticed you have dedicated quite a bit of time and energy into these discussions. Additionally it seems that one such as yourself who is endlessly rolling your eyes at any opinion that differs from your own would have something better to do with their time than to spend all that time slapping down other people's thoughts and ideas because they fit into your preconceived category of CT nutjob hallucinations. So indulge me... what is it you get out of this? Do you get some kind of satisfaction from targeting these CT types and getting them all stirred up by arguing endlessly with equally opinion based statements? OR is this some kind of mission field for you... like you need to save the poor little ignorant CTs from their miserable lives of questioning the official stories and believing in their silly little conspiracies? Either way, I certainly don't think you should stop... especially if it's something you enjoy. I'm just curious from a psychological standpoint.

And on a final note, it would be interesting to speak with someone from Nazi Germany who was whole-heartedly sold out to Hitler and his ideals, and later was shown first hand the horror of the concentration camps and the details of how propaganda and deception were used to shape the public opinion. That's assuming they had a conscience and were able to see the magnitude of evil they had been a supporter of, as opposed to being in denial and continuing to believe Hitler was a good guy. To be able to hear their conversations regarding the Fuhrer before, then after. Especially conversations with folks that were trying to expose Hitler as I'm sure there had to be at least a few CT nutters then as well. I wonder if there were people that were like, "Hitler is sending innocent people to those labor camps not as prisoners that will help the war effort by providing a free source of labor, but to simply exterminate them in mass numbers... gas them, shoot them, starve them, and burn their bodies!" And the ignorant Hitler supporter who was swallowing everything the Third Reich spewed out of their propaganda machine replied, "PSH! That's simply not true! It makes no sense whatsoever! Besides, there's no evidence! Think about all the people that would be involved in keeping that a secret... you expect me to believe no one would say anything?! Absolutely ridiculous!"



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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Mordecai81
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


They're betting on most people being like you CIAGypsy... because you're right... there isn't someone going on (controlled) MSM exposing this stuff, proving they are at the top, going through a 4 hour powerpoint hashing out all of the details with verifiable information and evidence, renouncing their deeds and affiliation, and calling for an end to all of the intricate and long thought out plans. We won't ever see that... nope... the version we can only hope for is that at some point they make a mistake and fall on their own. There is always deniability when you have money, power, and influence.


Au contraire, mon ami.... There have been several people, outside of Svali, who have come forward claiming to be some "high ranking" mind-controlled slave (Cathy O'Brien, Leo Zagami, etc...). Guess what? Their "claims" have been shown to be nothing more than that....claims. Words.

Again...I go back to a previous post in this thread where I asked someone else "are you going to believe a claim, indiscriminately, just because someone makes it?" I don't "disbelieve" indiscriminately. I look at the claim objectively utilizing critical thinking to discern if it is BS or something of substance. I also research facts (through more than just the internet, btw) to see if anything can be corroborated. Again, a very rare skill these days, it seems.


reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

Do you think all who lived in Nazi Germany were well informed from the beginning of Hitler and his Nazi party that he planned on world domination and extermination of the undesirables? Absolutely not... it required several years of propaganda, deception, conditioning, indoctrinating, and manipulating to convince a majority of the nation that his way was the right way. Would that not be considered mind control? And if this illogical acceptance of ideas can't be called mind control, what would you call it?


Sounds like the Democratic Party..


On the serious side, with Hitler you are talking about incremental control/subversiveness that happened over a period of about 10-15 years.

With the alleged Illuminati conspiracy, we are talking about that same process happening over many centuries. It flies in the face of reason that any instigator of a conspiracy would "plan" it to happen over so many generations. Yeah...I'm gonna plan to have my future ancestors take over the world in 300 years from now. Do you see the ridiculousness of that idea?


reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

You admit that MK Ultra was a real thing, albeit much less sinister than the CTs say it is, but how do you know that? Are you aware that he director of the CIA during the time MK Ultra was exposed ordered the destruction of countless documents before the hearings could bring them to the light of day? FOIA was only able to release a fraction of the original documents. Explain to us why you think he would have done that? He didn't want his grandma's secret chocolate chip cookie recipe getting out to the public? What about ARTICHOKE?


Guess you have never worked with Classified projects from this response... This kind of behavior, while reprehensible to the public, is not abnormal. They do the same thing when certain politicians buy hookers and drugs.

That being said, I already said that MK Ultra DID exist... Same goes for Artichoke, Paperclip, and a lot of other classified projects... But just because they existed does NOT mean they were effective or efficient on a mass level. Perhaps you need to go back to my previous post where I talk about repeatability in science, as well as the explanation about WHY they could not reach repeatability with these projects?



edit on 12-12-2013 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 09:09 PM
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Mordecai81
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 
Then there's the issue of your adament arguments against mind control as being "physiologically impossible". Though I think we can all agree, as well as the admission from the scientific community, that we know about as much about how the brain works as an ant knows about the laws of thermo-dynamics. That being said, it amazes me that you can so confidently denounce the possibilities of mind control.


I've already addressed these points in multiple posts. I've explained why it is physiologically impossible, along with supporting information. I've also explained that the brain is the least understood organ in the entire body....which is exactly why "mind control" from the perspective of a Manchurian Candidate is NOT possible with current technology.

Now, to be clear....let's define the type of "mind control" that I am talking about. When I saw "Mind Control" in this thread or elsewhere....I am referring to an individual involuntarily committing any action for which they may or may not have any memory of committing.

I am NOT referring to "mind control" which relies upon conscious or subconscious "persuasion" of which there is massive proven science and industries built upon. With "persuasion," the individual still maintains control of choice/free will.


Mordecai81
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

I digress because there is endless, ENDLESS amounts of information and cases that easily defend the reality of powerful people utilizing mind control. So for you to continually nay say the mention of the possibility that there could be a clandestine group of people working together to bring about some goal of theirs through secrecy and intimidation is borderline insanity... denial of history and the rotten nature of humanity to say the least.


Again, I disagree unless your description of "mind control" is simply persuasion. That definition, however, is NOT the perspective of people like Svali, Ted Gunderson, Fritz Sprigmeier, etc...


reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

I noticed in your posts that you enforce your opinion with the argument that something just doesn't make sense. I live in a world where a lot of things don't make sense, especially human behavior, but that doesn't mean that something that seems nonsensical isn't if not completely, partially based in reality.


I have provided clear points and supporting documentation about why the claims of Svali and others "don't make sense." In general, I think most human behavior generally makes sense...at least to me. Most people, when fully analyzed, are very predictable. Notice I say "most people"???


reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

I also noticed you have dedicated quite a bit of time and energy into these discussions. Additionally it seems that one such as yourself who is endlessly rolling your eyes at any opinion that differs from your own would have something better to do with their time than to spend all that time slapping down other people's thoughts and ideas because they fit into your preconceived category of CT nutjob hallucinations. So indulge me... what is it you get out of this? Do you get some kind of satisfaction from targeting these CT types and getting them all stirred up by arguing endlessly with equally opinion based statements? OR is this some kind of mission field for you... like you need to save the poor little ignorant CTs from their miserable lives of questioning the official stories and believing in their silly little conspiracies? Either way, I certainly don't think you should stop... especially if it's something you enjoy. I'm just curious from a psychological standpoint.


Rather hypocritical of you, don't you think?

I spend time in these discussions for several reasons. I find it disturbing the amount of people who would so willingly and gullibly swallow these theories without any critical thinking or objective review of facts. Often their feelings are driven by a salacious imagination (thank you Hollywood), class envy (Damn those Rothschilds...), or the temptation to deflect any kind of personal accountability for their lives ("elitists keeping the man down). Even worse, they feed the delusions (to the great potential detriment) of those poor people who truly think they are "mind controlled slaves." Do you understand the great personal anguish and fear of those people who feel they have to constantly watch over their shoulders for the rest of their entire lives? Even when they claim to be "free," (such as Svali), they are still not "free." There is forever a hypervigilence that haunts them.... Why feed that atmosphere which is clearly damaging to the individual? Better to help people by showing them reality that this type of "technology" is not possible (which I've routinely documented) and that this type of conspiracy is highly unlikely.

We can't even keep government secrets for a single generation without things (and evidence) slipping through our fingers...such is the case when you have thousands who hold the keys to your kingdom. Yet you think that some alleged elite can affect the free will and though of MILLIONS over 300 plus years without ANY undeniable evidence coming out?? Yeah....not possible based on resources alone.
edit on 12-12-2013 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 



Au contraire, mon ami.... There have been several people, outside of Svali, who have come forward claiming to be some "high ranking" mind-controlled slave (Cathy O'Brien, Leo Zagami, etc...).


Um... the people you listed aren't the folks I was referring to. I was referring to those who would be at the top of this grand scheme (assuming it exists). I thought I made that obvious.



Again...I go back to a previous post in this thread where I asked someone else "are you going to believe a claim, indiscriminately, just because someone makes it?" I don't "disbelieve" indiscriminately. I look at the claim objectively utilizing critical thinking to discern if it is BS or something of substance. I also research facts (through more than just the internet, btw) to see if anything can be corroborated. Again, a very rare skill these days, it seems.


Do you actually read the things you type before you post them? Your instruction is to go back and look at your previous post... I did... didn't see anything that was any more substantial or backed by facts than anything anyone else has said. I saw one link to a science daily article that really had nothing to do with the subject at hand... trauma based mind control. It was discussing memory consolidation and reconsolidation during protein synthesis, and the only part that talked anything about trauma was this: "Because addressing memory-related afflictions, such at PTSD, depends on first understanding the nature of memory formation and the playback of those memories, finding remedies may prove even more challenging than is currently recognized." What does that have to do with this topic??? All they're saying is it's going to be a challenge to find remedies. Please enlighten me if I'm missing something. If you do so much "non-internet research" can you please provide some references for those of us who are less studious? And BTW... there are plenty of resources on this here internet that are simply electronic copies of physically published materials that some people may prefer as opposed to taking the time to head to the local library... that's just a side note.



With the alleged Illuminati conspiracy, we are talking about that same process happening over many centuries. It flies in the face of reason that any instigator of a conspiracy would "plan" it to happen over so many generations. Yeah...I'm gonna plan to have my future ancestors take over the world in 300 years from now. Do you see the ridiculousness of that idea?


I don't see the ridiculousness. Rome wasn't built in a day. Rome was one attempt at a global empire. Nazi Germany was an attempt at a global empire. I believe the phrase "practice makes perfect" is applicable here. Is it hard to believe that if others have attempted it, that there might be some folks attempting it today, and are utilizing technology and methods that weren't previously available so they think they have a shot at succeeding where others failed? The way you simplify it does sound ridiculous though.



Guess you have never worked with Classified projects from this response... This kind of behavior, while reprehensible to the public, is not abnormal. They do the same thing when certain politicians buy hookers and drugs.

That being said, I already said that MK Ultra DID exist... Same goes for Artichoke, Paperclip, and a lot of other classified projects... But just because they existed does NOT mean they were effective or efficient on a mass level. Perhaps you need to go back to my previous post where I talk about repeatability in science, as well as the explanation about WHY they could not reach repeatability with these projects?


Again, what? So, you're equating classified projects with the "oops" of politicians? And what is that supposed to mean anyway? That because that's the "norm" we should... um... I don't know... I don't follow your logic here.

So, project exists = not effective? Based on what? Do you have proof these projects weren't effective or resulted in efficiency? Isn't it just as likely they were effective, or do you know something we don't? And of course there isn't going to be any "mainstream" repeatability to prove they were or weren't successful with these projects because that would mean we would have to... I don't know... TORTURE PEOPLE! And again, what exactly makes you an expert on the outcome of said projects? Are you an insider? Are you the one who signs off on projects when they've failed? WOW... seriously... for someone who is so intellectual, you really make some bizarre leaps in logic and some wild claims of your own "posts" being sufficient explanations.



I've already addressed these points in multiple posts. I've explained why it is physiologically impossible, along with supporting information. I've also explained that the brain is the least understood organ in the entire body....which is exactly why "mind control" from the perspective of a Manchurian Candidate is NOT possible with current technology.


Supporting information? A link to sciencedaily.com that has nothing to do with mind control or it's viability. And again with the bizarre leaps of logic... brain is least understood organ = mind control not possible. WOW! So you're making an assertion that something absolutely positively is not possible right after saying the object that is the focus of the topic in question is the LEAST UNDERSTOOD organ? Do you realize how contradictory that is?



Now, to be clear....let's define the type of "mind control" that I am talking about. When I saw "Mind Control" in this thread or elsewhere....I am referring to an individual involuntarily committing any action for which they may or may not have any memory of committing.

I am NOT referring to "mind control" which relies upon conscious or subconscious "persuasion" of which there is massive proven science and industries built upon. With "persuasion," the individual still maintains control of choice/free will.


I see what you are saying, but I believe the topic at hand is the effect trauma has on the ability to persuade. Please provide empirical evidence that trauma does not aid in persuasion. Hitler burned down the Reichstag (traumatic) to persuade compliance without questioning... I would posit that 9/11 was a similar exercise. Now that's on a large scale which was kind of what I was getting at with my Nazi comparison, but to what extent would severe physical and psychological trauma effect the ability to brainwash and control a person? You tell me (without using your opinion).



I have provided clear points and supporting documentation about why the claims of Svali and others "don't make sense." In general, I think most human behavior generally makes sense...at least to me. Most people, when fully analyzed, are very predictable. Notice I say "most people"???


I'm sorry, I re-read all of your posts in this thread, and I'm missing what "supporting documentation" you provided that would point out exactly why the claims of Svali and others "don't make sense". The generalities based on your thoughts is hardly validating to your assertions that trauma based mind control is "impossible". And I do notice you say "most people"... what does that mean? cont'd...



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 




Rather hypocritical of you, don't you think?


(at the time of this post) CIAGypsy - 1,407 posts... Mordecai81 - 16 posts... you tell me.

I was simply researching ritual abuse and came across this thread (I don't frequent ATS very often).



I spend time in these discussions for several reasons. I find it disturbing the amount of people who would so willingly and gullibly swallow these theories without any critical thinking or objective review of facts. Often their feelings are driven by a salacious imagination (thank you Hollywood), class envy (Damn those Rothschilds...), or the temptation to deflect any kind of personal accountability for their lives ("elitists keeping the man down). Even worse, they feed the delusions (to the great potential detriment) of those poor people who truly think they are "mind controlled slaves." Do you understand the great personal anguish and fear of those people who feel they have to constantly watch over their shoulders for the rest of their entire lives? Even when they claim to be "free," (such as Svali), they are still not "free." There is forever a hypervigilence that haunts them.... Why feed that atmosphere which is clearly damaging to the individual? Better to help people by showing them reality that this type of "technology" is not possible (which I've routinely documented) and that this type of conspiracy is highly unlikely.


I would say more for a feeling of inflated self importance, but I could be wrong (not likely). Amazing how blindly critical you are... talk about a hypocrite. You offer just as much and good of quality of "supporting documentation" as most of the WORST CTs out there. You stand on self-righteous postulating just as much as the next person, touting it as superior to anything anyone else could possibly say (unless of course they agree with you... a little pot calling the kettle black if you ask me).

"Why feed that atmosphere?"... What if you've got it all wrong? What if those people have gone through something that you and I couldn't imagine going through because we were lucky enough to be born into the lives we have? Put yourself in their shoes... wouldn't you want people helping you to sort this all out instead of burying their heads in the sand on a lack of evidence? Am I saying we should feed into the destructive side effects these folks may be experiencing? NO! What I'm saying is these could be real people with real problems that are really what they say they are, and as compassionate fellow human beings, we should be seeking a solution (which exposing it may bring about the solution, no?), and just because there isn't full disclosure at this point in time, does that mean we turn a blind eye to something that not just those mentioned in this thread claim to have experienced? It seems you argue against things simply because you don't believe them and don't think anyone else should either... not because you have a desire to know the truth. Nope... you'd rather take them by the hand and with just as little evidence to prove "this type of technology isn't possible" as there is to prove it is, and convince them they are having a lapse in sanity... it's all in their imagination... and it's best for everyone if we can just move on from this... mmmkay. Please.

You said "which I've routinely documented"... for the sake of anyone jumping in on just this thread (similar to my situation) can you please re-post all of this documentation? I would actually really like to see it. And please... don't just copy and past your previous statements and opinions... not the kind of documentation I'm looking for.

So... here's some reading material for you... and yes, it's from the internet, but if you want me to drudge through the library card catalog, let me know... I'm sure I can find some documentation just as good if not better than that which you have provided (wait... you haven't).

What are your thoughts on DID and MPD? If you don't mind enlightening us on these topics.
my.clevelandclinic.org...

www.issd.org... - This one mentions that dissociation and hypnotism can be combined... hmmmmmm... wonder what kind of result that would render?!

And from DSM-5 (I have access to this online through school... a student of psychology I am):

"Many individuals with dissociative amnesia are chronically impaired in their ability to form and sustain satisfactory relationships. Histories of trauma, child abuse, and victimization are common. Some individuals with dissociative amnesia report dissociative flashbacks (i.e., behavioral reexperiencing of traumatic events) (Loewenstein 1991). Many have a history of self-mutilation, suicide attempts, and other high-risk behaviors. Depressive and functional neurological symptoms are common, as are depersonalization, auto-hypnotic symptoms, and high hypnotizability. Sexual dysfunctions are common. Mild traumatic brain injury may precede dissociative amnesia (Kritchevsky et al. 2004)."

and

"On standardized measures, these individuals report higher levels of hypnotizability and dissociativity compared with other clinical groups and healthy control subjects (Carlson et al. 1993; Spiegel et al. 2011)."

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. Arlington, VA, American Psychiatric Association, 2013. Web. [access date: 1 June 2013]. dsm.psychiatryonline.org

The documentation to prove dissociation brought on through trauma, increased susceptibility to hypnosis, and the FACT that our government has participated in experimentation to combine and control these techniques is irrefutable. Now... the only thing we can't prove is the grand conspiracy to use these techniques on an army of people... all we have to go on is the testimony of people combined with the implications of what we know about the previously mentioned government's involvement in experimentation. Again... they're betting on people like you CIAGypsy... to play devil's advocate because something just seems "so hard to believe" that it can't possibly be true.

I'm not saying it is true, but I'm damn sure not saying it isn't... cause I don't want to have to look back in horror knowing I contributed to the "burried heads" that allowed crimes against humanity to go unnoticed and unpunished.

History repeats itself, and mankind is EVIL by nature... just perfecting the recipe takes time.

Mordecai OUT!



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by Mordecai81
 


CIAGypsy is a good person but a skeptic, my feeling towards her is that she is a great person but hyper sensitive to this topic of the Illuminati because my guess is she is what one would call a bloodline of there's but just because you have blood from one of the alleged bloodlines does not make you Illuminati, in order to be Illuminati you must participate in the crap they do the others regardless of bloodline does not mater there not Illuminati.....


I just relistened to Svali and after hearing her i think she is telling the truth of course she does not have all the truth but she's been involved enough to answer some of the questions correct.....



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Mordecai81
 


I will provide you a full and extensive response this weekend. I am traveling at the moment and want to be sure I provide a THOROUGH response to put this question to bed!

Peace.



posted on Dec, 22 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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Mordecai81
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

Um... the people you listed aren't the folks I was referring to. I was referring to those who would be at the top of this grand scheme (assuming it exists). I thought I made that obvious.


Yeah? So if it doesn't fit into your neat little box, then it doesn't matter, eh? Who are the "folks you are referring to" then? The people I posted are people who claim to be high ranking Illuminati. Their stories, like Svali, have little to no proof other than their originator's claims. I go back to my previous statement.....I could claim to be Michelle Obama. You gonna believe it just because I said it? What if I said I could give you intimate details of the white house floor plan? Would you be any more likely to believe it? SHOULD you be?


Mordecai81
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

Do you actually read the things you type before you post them? Your instruction is to go back and look at your previous post... I did... didn't see anything that was any more substantial or backed by facts than anything anyone else has said. I saw one link to a science daily article that really had nothing to do with the subject at hand... trauma based mind control. It was discussing memory consolidation and reconsolidation during protein synthesis, and the only part that talked anything about trauma was this: "Because addressing memory-related afflictions, such at PTSD, depends on first understanding the nature of memory formation and the playback of those memories, finding remedies may prove even more challenging than is currently recognized." What does that have to do with this topic??? All they're saying is it's going to be a challenge to find remedies. Please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

...

Supporting information? A link to sciencedaily.com that has nothing to do with mind control or it's viability. And again with the bizarre leaps of logic... brain is least understood organ = mind control not possible. WOW! So you're making an assertion that something absolutely positively is not possible right after saying the object that is the focus of the topic in question is the LEAST UNDERSTOOD organ? Do you realize how contradictory that is?


For this part, I owe you a partial apology. I post a lot of information on this subject because the neurology is something I know intimately. The specific points that I was referring to previously are not in this thread. So I will point you to those comments and supporting evidence that I have posted previously... Aside from what I have posted below, the information on memory IS important even if it doesn't directly address "mind control" because it scientifically refutes the general explanations of how mind control allegedly works. The brain is NOT a computer with unlimited storage that can be "recalled" at the drop of a word or picture. Complex programs cannot be covertly hidden in a mush of grey and white matter. Our biology is not digital!

Brain myths

Propaganda & Psy-Ops

Amnesia

Memory and Physiology

And since you want to talk directly about the effects of trauma, then let's discuss that studies have shown that a victim's symptomatology is dependent on several mitigating factors. For instance, "forgetting," as a manifestation of use of avoidance, may be associated with increased symptoms in the short-term aftermath of the trauma. {Williams, Linda and Banyard, Victoria. Trauma and Memory. Sage, 1999. Print.} Short-term aftermath being 12-18 months after which time the symptom is more likely to be an automated response and not because of an acute inability to cope. Sexually abused children, especially those under 9 yrs of age, regardless of memory seem to have fewer indicative symptoms (depression, anxiety, dissociation, sleep problems, etc...) than older children and adults. Research for this same book also shows studies that victims show more mental health related symptoms from "recovered" memories than those who may have never forgotten....yet another reason why I think "harmless posters like you" are waking a sleeping bear and doing more harm than good. You can walk away at night and put it all from your mind while encouragement in mind control abuse/belief may be instigating serious psychological trauma created from real or false memories that can ruin an innocent person's life. (Note: just because you may be triggering real memory recall doesn't indicate it is from some conspiracy)

"Recovered" memories cannot (and should not, for legal purposes) be trusted. I believe there is substantial evidence available on the fallibility of memory, even autobiographical memory. And then there is the whole subject of false memories.... Given what we know about how pliable memories are in their ability to add "new information" when they are recalled (or imagination triggered), it is easy to understand how false memories can be planted in several ways.

Creating False Memories

But even outside of your belief or mine whether these memories are reliable, this is a hotly debated subject for which you and I may have to agree to disagree.



Controversy surrounding repressed memory -- sometimes referred to as the "memory wars" -- came to a head in the 1990s. While some believed that traumatic memories could be repressed for years only to be recovered later in therapy, others questioned the concept, noting that lack of scientific evidence in support of repressed memory.

But, there was still a clear gap between clinicians and researchers: Roughly 60-80% of clinicians, psychoanalysts, and therapists surveyed agreed to some extent that traumatic memories are often repressed and can be retrieved in therapy, compared to less than 30% of research-oriented psychologists.

Additional data revealed that belief in repressed memory is still prevalent among the general public.

This marked divide, with researchers on the one hand and clinicians and the public on the other, is worrying because of the implications it has for clinical practice and for the judicial system:

"Therapists who believe that traumatic memories can be repressed may develop treatment plans that differ dramatically from those developed by practitioners who do not hold this belief. In the courtroom, beliefs about memory often determine whether repressed-memory testimony is admitted into evidence," the researchers write.



- Lawrence Patihis et al. Are the “Memory Wars” Over? A Scientist-Practitioner Gap in Beliefs About Repressed Memory. Psychological Science, December 2013





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