How is this democracy???

I was just wondering what your comments were on the whole voting set up of the united states government. I dunno about you but it seems that no matter who you vote for, you're screwed. There are two major parties you can vote for: Republican and Democratic. Two sides of the same coin!!....The public is basically choosing the same thing. Aren't both parties really right winged????....

I was just wondering what your comments were on the whole voting set up of the united states government. I dunno about you but it seems that no matter who you vote for, you're screwed. There are two major parties you can vote for: Republican and Democratic. Two sides of the same coin!!....The public is basically choosing the same thing. Aren't both parties really right winged????....

Sorry - the Democrats are ANYTHING but right winged. Your not into american politics are you?

As for the voting system of having 2 major sides, it is MUCH better then having a bunch of smaller ones. Check out the history of italian politics...you'll see what I mean.

Whoever you vote for is gonna screw things up for somone. That why I dont vote. It doesnt matter!! The president doesnt run this country, hasnt since maybe, George Washington. There is too much politics in politics. They lie, tell you they will fix this, help that, they dont. Politicians, its just a job. They get paid, go to a few meetings, vote on crap that they probably dont know much about. Oh I am not saying they are all bad, I am sure there are a few who really want to help this country out, but they are few and far between. THis country, even this planet for that matter, has grown to big for its own good! Too many people, all with a diffrent idea of how things should be ran.

The president doesnt run this country, hasnt since maybe, George Washington.

even he didn't - he had the first cabinet.

There is too much politics in politics. They lie, tell you they will fix this, help that, they dont. Politicians, its just a job.

agreed...except for the "it's just a job" part. It's a title too

This isn't a democracy, it's a hypocrisy. And I disagree with democrats not being "right wing". Anyone who supports any kind of political party, currently in power, is right wing to me. Either way, they're a bunch of power hungry assholes that can't live and let live. To me, that is the very definition of "right wing".

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]

I think we may be having a bit of confusion here. Let's drop the right-wing/left-wing thing here and figure conservative/liberal. The Dems are anything but conservative, and Bush has been not much at all in the way of conservative himself, while not going full bore into the socially left issues, though.
As far as Democracy goes, yes, this is just fine for a democracy. What makes you think it wouldn't? Nothing says you have to have a certain number of choices, nor does anything say the choices you have must be so many degrees away from one another. However, this is no republic, as it was meant to be, and hasn't been for numerous decades now; over a century.

Of the two choices we used to have, the DEmocratic party was the one "they" used to drive us toward the end of sovereignty and personal liberty and into a NWO more quickly. When we would begin to choke on the crap, they would offer us a Republican to appease us for a few years, then put it back into high gear. The republican would be ineffective over all, not really undoing the national damage, but didn't drive us into destruction at a break-neck speed. Seems to me that LuDaCris sees that there is such little difference between the two that "their" plan is working. The fact that the population has been reprogrammed to the point where they can't distinguish between what was once referred to as left and right wing, as demonstrated by LuDaCris, should be a wakeup call that there aren't too many more years to the sovereignty of the U.S.

There is no conservative party. If you think there is, you're only fooling yourself. They just throw that word around alot.

Actually, Libertarians were about as conservative as they came, but they don't really exist in politics anymore.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]

I think our voting system is okay. But any person who is elected will make some kind of mistake and in some cases- many mistakes *cough*bush*cough*

Isn't it demoncracy? Didn't everyone drop an "n"?

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
...it seems that no matter who you vote for, you're screwed.

That doesn't have much to do with democracy. It has more to do with the fact that most of the candidates are poor leaders and don't have the capacity to fathom the complexity of our society, let alone do anything about it.

The similarities I see between the two parties are too numerous for me to differentiate them. They both acquiesce to special interests, they both cower before business and insurance, and they both try their damndest to be everyone's everything. They speak of different things in different tones before and after elected, and are largely ineffectual in the end.

These are the reasons why there is disparity in politics, and why large entities have a greater effect on policy than do the people.

All this is pointless, though, as I realize more and more the irony in that it is those who don't vote that complain the loudest about how badly the country is governed.

If you don't voice your opinion, your opinion will be dictated to you.

DeltaChaos

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by Satyr
Either way, they're a bunch of power hungry assholes that can't live and let live.

To me, that is the very definition of "right wing".

Satyr the premise you make in your statement covers all of human history and government, nihilism makes for a very unhappy individual, chaos (live and let live) only makes it worse - for whats to say one will actually desire the result when peoples "living" tramples your mode of "living" and you have NO recourse to change it. Can you demonstrate a society where this method of "live and let live" has worked in the past? I think the method here in the US while not perfect, is the best in history so far.

When I took Political Science it was put forth that we have a democratic system 1 day every 4 years or so. Election day. I believe this as most governments are voted OUT as opposed to a government voted IN. That being said, it really doesn't matter who YOU think controls the reins of government, it's whatever wing of Big Business that is most successful putting forth THEIR candidate that wins. So who really controls the gov.?

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
If you don't voice your opinion, your opinion will be dictated to you.

Under our current system, even if you do vote, your opinion will be dictated to you. It's a lose/lose situation.

Originally posted by Satyr
Under our current system, even if you do vote, your opinion will be dictated to you. It's a lose/lose situation.

Well, you can always complain and see where that gets you. Or, you can pack your bags, and see what that gets you...

DC

im for this government and im for this country, but it is improtant to realize that it is corrupt.....and if you are a real patriot then instead of complainig you will try to fix things. get the word out. you have to do what is best for this country and stand behind constructively.

also i agree that there are fallicies in this system.....but just not voting doesnt help. Im not a liberal im more of a moderate....... because the truth is always somewhere in the middle

I've tried both voting, and not voting. The results are exactly the same. You don't count, especially if you believe in freedom and a non-interference. Unfortunately, I'm hopelessly outnumbered by preprogrammed drones who will only vote for one of the two dominating parties. IMO, nothing short of a civil war, or revolution, is going to change that. It's going to have to get much worse before it gets better. Americans will not fight for their rights, until they're completely fed up. Until then, they'll just allow the gov't to continue on the path to tyranny.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]

The US has ~300 million of the most independant, cantankerous people the planet has ever produced. The US has the 3rd largest population in the world. Who said it was gonna be easy?

I don't see anyone coming up with a better way. I'm sure it's been mentioned before that this never has been and was never intended to be a Democracy.

The fact that so many of you refuse to vote says more about you than it does about the political system you refuse to participate in. As a fellow citizen, your attitude makes me pretty unconcerned about your needs and desires since you won't make any effort to change what you don't like.

Many say we as voters don't have much power anyway. Isn't it better to excercise what little power we have than to just get disgusted and not excercise any power at all? That is like plucking out your eyes just because you don't like what you're looking at.

There is room for political change. In Canada we typically had 2 parties. 60-70 years ago a movement out west saw the farmers unite to create a party that became the NDP. It is still around and while never being elected on a national forum, it has been in power on a provincial level. Others of note, pretty much the same are Reform party, and hate to say this one, Bloc Qubecios. So you can have more than a 2 party system, it takes time, work and people to be involved.

Democracy isn't something that happens one day every four years. It is supposed to happen all the days between.

What's supposed to happen in those days between is ACTION. Changing things requires us to DO SOMETHING. It isn't enough just to vote every four years.

If you are one who is upset, your level of action should be equal to your level of dissatisfaction. If those two things are not equal, then you should complain less, or do more to change things.

If you complain and do nothing at all, you are a whiner, and ultimately ineffectual. You probably like feeling sorry for yourself, and like others to feel sorry for you as well.

The only people that should not be required to vote or act to effect decisions that have bearing on their lives are those who are completely content with everything just the way they are. Which hopefully is no one.

DC

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
The fact that so many of you refuse to vote says more about you than it does about the political system you refuse to participate in. As a fellow citizen, your attitude makes me pretty unconcerned about your needs and desires since you won't make any effort to change what you don't like.

I never said I don't vote. Actually, I'm voting Libertarian until the whole #house goes up in flames. Not that it'll matter what, or whom, I vote for. You don't seem to get it, though. This voting "power" is a charade. It's only there to make people think they still have a gram of power over the system, when in fact, they don't have #.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
If you are one who is upset, your level of action should be equal to your level of dissatisfaction. If those two things are not equal, then you should complain less, or do more to change things.

If you complain and do nothing at all, you are a whiner, and ultimately ineffectual. You probably like feeling sorry for yourself, and like others to feel sorry for you as well.

And just what would you suggest I do? Get my neighbors together and try to form a militia? IMO, war is the only way to change this monstrosity of corruption. Sure, you can try to become active in politics, but we all know how well that works, don't we? Why don't you tell us what you're doing? (besides posting on a forum, and calling people whiners)

I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me or themselves. I want them to get angry, and take back their rights. I want them to regain control of this country, by any means necessary. If that means killing all politicians, or at least their jobs, then so be it.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]