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How is this democracy???

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Ra

posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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You have no right to complain or brag unless YOU VOTE!!! It is not a right but a priviledge that you must excersize or lose!!!

I find nothing but ignorant statements from people who seem almost proud that they do not vote!!

If the conservatives had thier way they'd have it changed so only rich-land-owning-white-males could vote, just as it was originally.

By not voting and making your voice heard you are allowing them to circumvent the process. If every average American voted, the republicans would never win elections ever again because most Americans would vote democrat.

The last census listed out that nearly 73% of Americans would be registered democrats if all eligible people (American citizens over the age of 18) actually registere to vote in all elections.

The problem then is complacency and the attitude that some of you elude to here "that it doesn't matter".

IT WOULD MATTER IF YOU VOTED!!!!

IF YOU DON'T VOTE, YOU HAVE NO ONE BUT YOURSELF TO BLAME FOR YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT AND HOMELESSNESS AFTER THE BUSHONIANS CONTINUE TO RAPE AND PILAGE OUR COUNTRY TO THE POINT THAT WE HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SHOW FOR 230 YEARS OF PROGRESS AND ADVANCEMENT!!!!

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!!!

TAKE BACK AMERICA FOR AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Satyr
Why don't you tell us what you're doing? (besides posting on a forum, and calling people whiners)



Currently I am co-campaign manager with Jon Belgique for my friend Ian Scharine who is running for chair of house district 30 on the personal choice party ticket. It's not much, but I'm young yet. I have applied for a council seat in my own town, as well, but I just moved and I don't believe I'll meet the residency requirement before the election.

In addition to this, I am posting on a forum, calling people whiners. You know who you are...

DC

Link to the highly ineffectual, but hot chick laden Personal Choice Party of Utah

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by DeltaChaos]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me or themselves. I want them to get angry, and take back their rights. I want them to regain control of this country, by any means necessary. If that means killing all politicians, or at least their jobs, then so be it.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]

This is an example of not having a convincing enough platform to sway others by persuasion to vote for what you believe - the democratic way.

No instead sedition is advocated to FORCE ideas on others that disagree - is that not a hallmark of dictatorship and totolitarianism, is that what the left will bring us to?

This attitude is exactly why I will always remain a conservative that truely believes in your constitutional right to disagree with me. I will never stand behind a gun to FORCE you to, persuasion in a democratic system if not good enough deserves no such action.



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Well let's see,

Ya'll truly need to watch this inorder to understand exactly how much your vote means in a society that is as democratic
and just as ours. I have been voting consistantly since 1969 and I am truly aware of exactly how important each and every vote is
God Bless America.

TUTUTKAMEN


must see


www.toostupidtobepresident.com...


Happenings

You're going to be told lots of things.
You get told things every day that don't happen.

It doesn't seem to bother people, they don't--
It's printed in the press.
The world thinks all these things happen.
They never happened.

Everyone's so eager to get the story
Before in fact the story's there
That the world is constantly being fed
Things that haven't happened.

All I can tell you is,
It hasn't happened.
It's going to happen.

Department of Defense briefing
Feb. 28, 2003
Donald "Rummy" Rumsfeld




posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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Quite the funny cartoon. Yes, O'Dell is CEO of Diebold, and a heavy Bush supporter. But the voting machine division is in Texas, and run by a registered Democrat.

Not to say I endorse Diebolds' machines....poor, amateur design, accessible by modem, not protected by password, etc. But electronic voting machines are much better in principle than hand-counting.

Back to topic...those who say that their vote does not count must have already forgotten Florida in 2000.

john



[Edited on 27-3-2004 by jsobecky]

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by jsobecky]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by Satyr
Why don't you tell us what you're doing? (besides posting on a forum, and calling people whiners)



Currently I am co-campaign manager with Jon Belgique for my friend Ian Scharine who is running for chair of house district 30 on the personal choice party ticket. It's not much, but I'm young yet. I have applied for a council seat in my own town, as well, but I just moved and I don't believe I'll meet the residency requirement before the election.

In addition to this, I am posting on a forum, calling people whiners. You know who you are...

DC

Link to the highly ineffectual, but hot chick laden Personal Choice Party of Utah

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by DeltaChaos]

So, you want to be a politician? You'll end up just like they are. You do realize that, don't you? They all seem to start with good intentions, but then they all realize that there's no point in fighting the system. They'll only lose their own careers and/or credibility. Good luck.

The reason why there are so many people who don't vote, is because they've given up hope on this system. Frankly, so have I. I'll continue to vote Libertarian, but I really don't think there's much point in it.

Whoa! Andrea Breeze is a babe!



Originally posted by Phoenix
This is an example of not having a convincing enough platform to sway others by persuasion to vote for what you believe - the democratic way.

The hell you say! I want people to realize that they're losing their freedom. It has nothing to do with what I think. It's what they should know. Actually, most people do acknowledge the fact that the gov't is far too deep into their lives. They just won't get mad about it.


[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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There really is no difference in who you vote for--not that your vote matters anyway. You're only voting for the lesser of the two evils. The whole thing is completely pointless.

Stop the ignorance, don't vote...



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 02:55 PM
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How can anything positive come from not voting?

If your vote really doesn't matter then you have lost nothing.

But, if your vote does count, and you don't cast it, you have lost what little voice you may have had.

It disturbs me to see this attitude coming from Americans. It's like a kid who didn't win the game so he decides the game is bad and quits.

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by Ambient Sound]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
How can anything positive come from not voting?

If your vote really doesn't matter then you have lost nothing.

But, if your vote does count, and you don't cast it, you have lost what little voice you may have had.

Ah, it's the same thing christians say about god, isn't it?
There are alot of games I won't play. Politics is only one of them. Would you like to join me in a game of "See who can climb the highest without falling" or "I kick you in the nuts, then you kick me in the nuts, but I go first"? Some games just aren't fair, or they're just too dangerous.
Currently, we're all playing "Allow me to make all the rules for you, because I know what's best for you better than you do".


BTW, nothing has changed. You just weren't aware of how many people have actually lost their faith in the system. Why do you think there's only a whopping 20% of America that votes? They've all given up. 20% or so still believe they have power by voting. They're wrong, unfortunately. It just keeps appearances up, IMO.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by Satyr]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by Satyr
So, you want to be a politician? You'll end up just like they are. You do realize that, don't you? They all seem to start with good intentions, but then they all realize that there's no point in fighting the system. They'll only lose their own careers and/or credibility. Good luck.

Actually, since I'm grossly disfigured and cursed with multiple speech impediments, I don't think I'd be successful as a politician. I think I want to be an elementary school teacher.


DC



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
How can anything positive come from not voting?

If your vote really doesn't matter then you have lost nothing.

But, if your vote does count, and you don't cast it, you have lost what little voice you may have had.

It disturbs me to see this attitude coming from Americans. It's like a kid who didn't win the game so he decides the game is bad and quits.

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by Ambient Sound]


What disturbs me is that people actually believe in our political system. What shred of prood is there that your vote counts? A little graphic on a TV news screen?

If you haven't finally learned from the 2000 election that your tiny little opinion means nothing, you're fooling yourself. If your vote really mattered, why would campaign contributions be one of the deciding factors in an election?

It's a HUGE joke. Besides, what changes with the coming of a new president? Not a damn thing. The rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to get poorer. The only thing that changes is inflation...



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
The rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to get poorer. The only thing that changes is inflation...


This is the lamest thing I have ever heard, not to mention that it is overused and completely rediculous as a model for America.

If this is true, then we would have huge shantytowns all over this country.

Pretty soon I guess we'll have people roaming the countryside in packs covered in old rags eating bark and berries.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 05:49 AM
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I think Thorfinn is pretty much dead on Krazyjethro.

"The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer?"

In my experience I've never seen it more true than the last 5 years or so. Those not reliant on a job, or even the economy as a whole can play the markets and reap wonderous rewards in this 10,000 DOW environment where companies are actually glorified for outsourcing and the like. Those dependent on a job are screwed or barely hanging on at best.

The income figures are mired in controversy and for the most part obscured. Try getting the number of people in a certain income bracket sometime. But it seems the middle class is shrinking to me. That doesn't mean you move into a shack. But you work longer, don't retire, don't vacation, or send your kid to college. Come on there's all kinds of "poor".

I make about triple both my life long working grandparents combined and don't life half as well. That's partly inflation, and partly a testament to the new "working poor".

Millions now work full time and live below the poverty line. (Which was a major Edwards theme BTW).



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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The poor aren't really getting poorer. That's just a figure of speech. However, the number of poor people is rising. It's getting more and more rare that anyone makes it to middle class citizen, much less upper class. It's not as easy to be a middle class citizen anymore. So, you end up with a majority of lower and upper class citizens, and very few middle class. In that respect, yes, the rich do get richer, and the poor get poorer. (as inflation rises, and their wages don't) Is this clear now? This is what's meant by that phrase.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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Well, the poor will get poorer until they decide to do something about it.

I'm 40 now. When I was 30, I quit my career as a carpenter, trained myself in a new highly technical field (computers), and am now doing just fine, thanks. No goverment helped me. No one promised me success. I took responsibility for my own life, worked hard, and did it for myself. I am a high school drop out, former drug addict, wasn't born rich, never knew my father and plenty of other things people use as excuses for their failures. Am I that much better than everyone else? I don't think so. Maybe I'm just willing to try harder.

Truth is, if you can't find a job in the US, you aren't looking, or don't want one. If you are determined and willing to work, you can go as far as you want in America. However, if you just sit back and wait for someone else to make it better for you, you're gonna be waiting a long time.

The Universe has given you life. It owes you nothing else. The rest is up to you. You can play or stand on the sidelines and whine.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Well, the poor will get poorer until they decide to do something about it.

I'm 40 now. When I was 30, I quit my career as a carpenter, trained myself in a new highly technical field (computers), and am now doing just fine, thanks. No goverment helped me. No one promised me success. I took responsibility for my own life, worked hard, and did it for myself. I am a high school drop out, former drug addict, wasn't born rich, never knew my father and plenty of other things people use as excuses for their failures. Am I that much better than everyone else? I don't think so. Maybe I'm just willing to try harder.

Truth is, if you can't find a job in the US, you aren't looking, or don't want one. If you are determined and willing to work, you can go as far as you want in America. However, if you just sit back and wait for someone else to make it better for you, you're gonna be waiting a long time.

The Universe has given you life. It owes you nothing else. The rest is up to you. You can play or stand on the sidelines and whine.

Yep, I did the same thing. I got tired of being a mechanic, so I got a degree in electronics. It didn't take long to figure out I'd never make any decent money doing that (apparently, degrees don't mean # without experience), so I got into computers. Now I'm an IT Admin. (self taught, no school required)
But, the kicker is, I'm making $10K/year more than my last job, yet I only bring home $400/mo. more than I used to. Apparently, I'm at the bottom of the next tax bracket. You'd think that getting a wage increase of $10K/year would finally put me in the middle class, but not really. It sort of gives me the feeling that, no matter how much I finally make, I'll never be comfortable. Taxes are taking more than half of my increase.
It took me a year to find this job. And yes, I was looking full time, and no I'm not lazy. The job market is #, and so is the economy, as far as I'm concerned. Never in my life has it taken me so long to find a decent job, and I've been employed since I was 16yrs old, so you're talking out of your ass, IMO.


[Edited on 3-28-2004 by Satyr]



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
I think Thorfinn is pretty much dead on Krazyjethro.

"The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer?"

In my experience I've never seen it more true than the last 5 years or so. Those not reliant on a job, or even the economy as a whole can play the markets and reap wonderous rewards in this 10,000 DOW environment where companies are actually glorified for outsourcing and the like. Those dependent on a job are screwed or barely hanging on at best.

The income figures are mired in controversy and for the most part obscured. Try getting the number of people in a certain income bracket sometime. But it seems the middle class is shrinking to me. That doesn't mean you move into a shack. But you work longer, don't retire, don't vacation, or send your kid to college. Come on there's all kinds of "poor".

I make about triple both my life long working grandparents combined and don't life half as well. That's partly inflation, and partly a testament to the new "working poor".

Millions now work full time and live below the poverty line. (Which was a major Edwards theme BTW).


Well from my experience money makes money. The problem is not in the system, but rather the people.

Credit is becoming a bigger and bigger part of people's lives (unlike your grandparents day) which people live outside their means.

What happens if something goes wrong? Uh oh, their screwed.

The easy access, 0 money down generation is living it up. What people are NOT doing is living on a budget as much, saving money, using that money to make money.

Sorry to say that the current economy is such that it does take some money to make real money in that you use others money (banks etc) to make some for your own.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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It's easy to sit back and complain about the system rather than take responsibility for it.

It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?

So it's harder for you to find a job that you want than it has been at times in the past? Who promised you a job anyway? You were promised the right to:

1. Life, which you have.
2. Liberty, which you also have, and the fact that you can come to a board like this and say what you want proves it.
3. The pursuit of happiness, which you are responsible for yourself.

I love my country but I swear, Americans are some of the most spoiled people and have been for enough generations now that people think they are somehow entitled to what they have the right to pursue.

If we are doing so badly and are so poor, then explain how the 2nd biggest overall health care problem in the US right now is Obesity. If you have enough money and time to sit on your ass and stuff your face with enough food to make yourself fat, then I don't consider you poor, just stupid.

It has occured to me that most of you who choose to give up the power of your vote (however much or little power you think that is) would probably vote for someone I don't want to see in power anyway, so go ahead, don't vote.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 02:22 PM
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I cannot defend those who do not vote, but I spent the better part of my adult life defending freedom, and I like to think that I still do.

Freedom in itself implies the right not to vote if one chooses not to, for whatever reason. If you are one who truly believes that your conscience cannot allow you to vote for a particular candidate because they do not represent you, then that is your prerogative.

However I do think that if you don't feel properly represented, you should take action to make sure that you are. If not on the national level, at least on a local or state level. That's where change begins.

A voice without action to back it up is as useful as clapping with one hand. I notice the most angst toward this government coming from those who refuse to do anything about it.

Maybe it's too late. Maybe our fates are truly sealed and our government has grown too blind and deaf to be affected by our voices, but to not apply any effort and simply complain will not solve anything. In fact, it will only make matters worse.

I don't think we would see all this animosity toward the government if it weren't for a genuine concern on the part of those who are pissed. I think the fact that there is so little time and energy put into teaching the people about government institutions and processes is leading to this feeling of powerlessness. And maybe that is the intent, but it just isn't true that things cannot change.

It's like people going bankrupt at an alarming rate because no one teaches their kids to balance a checkbook or the importance of saving money anymore.
Ignorance leading to poverty and thus more ignorance.

I'm going to predict that within the next 3 elections the US will become at least a 3 party system, with the third party being the Green Party. It is going to make a hell of a lot more sense to people in the 2008 election cycle.

DC



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Actually, Libertarians were about as conservative as they came, but they don't really exist in politics anymore.



They are the third largest party in america right behind the big two, who hope and pray that you will believe that they dont exist. I just wonder how they get the media to give them almost NO coverage. They cover the greens, hell they cover the american Nazi party more than they cover the THIRD LARGEST party in america.

I wonder why?

And by the way this nonexistant party just had its national confrence in atlantia

[Edited on 28-3-2004 by Amuk]




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