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Obama's lead over McCain shrinks

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:58 AM
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I'm a liberal, but Obama is too liberal for me, and the democratic party, in the way they strong armed the primaries, lost my faith. It seems, that the democrats, which is supposed to be the party of the working class, have no respect for the average working joe. This is a very key point.

I still don't know who Obama is. I have never seen a candidate so embraced by big media, who I trust as far as I can throw a new program, which I can't even touch. Obama has a long list of ties to shady characters, and this has all been well discussed here on ATS forums. If you are calling for proof at this point in the game, you are either in denial, or need to catch up. What bothers me more than anything, including Obama's support by Ted Kennedy, is how much money Obama has. I don't buy the average voter contributing such phenomenally large amounts of money to the Obama campaign. No presidential candidate has ever had this much money to spend.

I don't like McCain's loyalty to the Reagan's way of doing things. I never liked Reagan, and culturally I am practically related to Reagan. De-regulation was always a bad idea. Tax cuts for the rich was always a bad idea. On these issues McCain is wrong. Then again, preferential treatment was always wrong, cradle to grave welfare was always wrong, and world wide charity can be as bad as world wide war mongering. McCains legislative history shows that he is a pragmatist, and that is what we need. With a democratic congress, McCain would probably be a far better situation than a very liberal Obama.




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 06:52 AM
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I don't believe that the way polls are done says anything about the actual support of either candidate. Some people like myself are never going to tell a pollster what they want to hear. Others, afraid of being labeled racist will simply tell a pollster Obama so that they will be left alone. The problem here is that three things will matter in deciding this election.

1. Who is going to tax me the most
2. Who is going to protect me from terrorism the most
3. Race. On this, there are a lot of people in the nation that just are not willing to give the nation to a black man though they will not admit this. It's not racism in the sense that Obama is black, but rather a feeling of trust. They see all the sterotypes out there like Jessie Jackson and they can't really decide. They like Obama but will get queezy in the booth.

Here's my take... I think a lot of people like Obama. He's a likable person. And they toy with the notion of supporting him, and will do so even as they enter the voting booth. But in the booth, there are no games. No commercials, and no rock bands. Only the cold hard reality of "me". There will be at least 30% of the populace that will vote for MCain in spite of what they entertained in the days prior to entering the booth. How do I know this you may ask? Here's how.

Obama is outspending McCain 5 to 1 in swing states. The media has been in the Obama camp thoughout the campaign. The world loves Obama. He draws large crowds. He won two debates and did fairly well on the last. Yet for all this it is only a 3 point lead. If Obama were that appealing he should be 20 points up.

When the shift happens on election day, we must remember that for every point drop in the actual election for one guy is one point increase for the other guy. So a 30% voter correction is actually overall a 60% change. Unless Obama can get up to a 30% advantage in the polls, McCain will be President of the United States.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
What about McCains ties? Or does that not matter since he has more "experience"?\

Keating 5

Spoke at a rally co-sponsered by Acorn in 2006

Really, if you want to vote for McCain, that's fine, but don't JUSTIFY your vote by saying Obama does unsavory things that McCain HAS ALSO DONE! Just say your voting for the old dude and be done with it. Geez people.


So umm other than it being inappropriate for McCain to be seen in an office with four senators all called to meet at an office by Keating, what are you saying McCain was guilty of?

Last I checked he was found innocent of any wrong doing



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL
So umm other than it being inappropriate for McCain to be seen in an office with four senators all called to meet at an office by Keating, what are you saying McCain was guilty of?

Last I checked he was found innocent of any wrong doing


It was more than just "being seen" in an office. McCain was there along with the other Senators to try to pressure the investigator to drop his case. He doesn't deny that so don't waste your time trying to deny it for him. His saving grace is that he told them he didn't want anything more to do with it once he found out there were serious felony charges being considered. And he wasn't "found innocent of any wrong doing" he was reprimanded by the commission for being a part of the whole thing and using bad judgement. He wasn't charged with anything because it wasn't a court hearing, but he certainly wasn't "innocent".



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by RRconservative

Don't think it was staged for Obama, but they were actively rooting for it. Anything bad for America is good for Democrats...has been for the last 8 years.



Jesus Christ. Are you serious?

The last 8 years has been the Bush Administration and Co. capitalizing quite nicely from the war in the Middle East, and subsequently their oil partnerships. That's just one example of the MANY that has been discussed on ATS many times over. You are soooo one-sighted. That was a ridiculous statement on many levels.

"Anything bad for America is good for Democrats"???

Democrats, just like Republicans, are also citizens of America. We all live here and experience the calamity regardless of our political ideologies!


I think you missed the point lucid, All those things you say Bush has capitalized on are the "bad things" that are good for democrats because it is what they use to justify their being the choice for change and all that other mumbo jumbo they keep chanting. You also have a hard time believing Obama's ties to crime figures, try googling antoin Tony the "racketeer" rezko. saul alinsky, his membership in socialist organization that he tried to cover up. This stuff isn't new,



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by MAINTAL
So umm other than it being inappropriate for McCain to be seen in an office with four senators all called to meet at an office by Keating, what are you saying McCain was guilty of?

Last I checked he was found innocent of any wrong doing


It was more than just "being seen" in an office. McCain was there along with the other Senators to try to pressure the investigator to drop his case. He doesn't deny that so don't waste your time trying to deny it for him. His saving grace is that he told them he didn't want anything more to do with it once he found out there were serious felony charges being considered. And he wasn't "found innocent of any wrong doing" he was reprimanded by the commission for being a part of the whole thing and using bad judgement. He wasn't charged with anything because it wasn't a court hearing, but he certainly wasn't "innocent".


Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill guy and try not mis representing the events as they occured as if the only reason he came clean is because he found out they had him on anything. Keating was a strong supporter and asked for McCains help BIG DEAL!

Once McCain found out what kind of fiasco KEATING was involved in, NOT JOHN MCCAIN but KEATING, he told Keating to take a hike.

Ultimately he was as I said exonerated and the "poor judgement" not withstanding was Guilty of NO wrong doing. That means NOT GUILTY, INNOCENT! You can try as Obama has to re-hash this thing with a new diabolical spin all you want but if you want to play tit for tat on who is the dirty Politician Ill match Obama's shady backround against McCains open book for a life anytime you like. If this is the best you can do to smear McCain,, you might want to try some of Obama's tactics and just plane lie about things but sensationalizing the Keating 5 when McCain shouldn't have even been tagged with that is just plane desperate.


McCain Lawyers Push Back on Obama Keating Five Charges

Charles KeatingBy Michael Abramowitz
PHOENIX -- The McCain campaign pushed back hard against the new Obama attack over the Keating Five, arguing that the Arizona senator was treated unfairly by the Senate ethics investigation and asserting that John McCain had been much more open about his relationship with disgraced thrift executive Charles Keating than Obama has been about his connection with one-time radical William Ayers.

In a conference call with reporters this afternoon, John Dowd, the Washington lawyer who represented McCain during the Senate investigation, called the inquiry a "classic political smear job" by the Democrats running the Senate at the time, saying that they only included McCain to make sure that a Republican was among the targets. "John had not done anything wrong," Dowd said.

Dowd's point of view was amplified by Robert Bennett, the Washington lawyer and Democrat who served as special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee during the Keating Five investigation, which focused on whether McCain and other senators exercised improper political influence over the regulation of Keating's failed Lincoln Savings & Loan.

In an interview, Bennett said McCain should never have been dragged into the ethics case to begin with. He said that after his own lengthy investigation, he came to the conclusion that the case against McCain and former Sen. John Glenn (D-Ohio) "should have been dropped" because the evidence suggested that once McCain understood that the Justice Department was investigating Keating, he backed off any involvement. Dowd noted that McCain threw Keating,once a strong supporter, out of his office after Keating pressed him to intervene in his case.

Bennett said former Sen. Howell Hefflin (D-Ala.) insisted that the two be included in the formal public inquiry because otherwise there would have been a month of public hearings "with no Republicans in the dock." The other members of the Keating Five were Democrats.

"It was clear that McCain should not have been at the table nor should Glenn," Bennett said. "I felt it was unfair for McCain to be included as part of the Keating Five." Bennett stressed that he was not speaking as part of the campaign, though he noted he also represented McCain in his recent battles with the New York Times.

The sharp defense of McCain by Dowd was in contrast to McCain's previous contrition about his involvement in the matter. He told the New York Times in 1999 that going into the meetings with regulators was a mistake. "Going into that room gave a definite appearance of impropriety," he said.

McCain was ultimately exonerated by the Ethics Committee,


[edit on 20-10-2008 by MAINTAL]



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