The Mind & Heart of a Conservative

Came across this quote today... which brilliantly applies to a lot of what i have experience here in this thread. Now, for those of you who have the brain switched "on" & have emotionally matured past grade school should comprehend my point.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
~ Mark Twain

... and i think a lot of what i have been trying to get through to those who refuse to evolve is that religion has a much more negative impact on "The Mind & Heart of a Conservative".

... my hope here was to have a scholarly informed intelligent thought provoking stimulating discussion, not a prissy petty pissing contest, on this issue.

... but i can see now... unfortunately this is a "steak... babies can't chew...".

[edit on 23-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


Thoughts on being a Conservative.

It is a set of values.

Excellence.
Independance.
Loyalty (in that most Tory of ways).

It stands for dignity. At it's best it extends to others. At it's worst it looks down on others.

It stands for networks. At it's best getting the right one for the job, at worst only allowing your mate to apply for it.

It stands for self help. At it's best it supports it, at it's worst it destroys it.

It stands for Tradition. At it's best the wisdom of our elders years ago get heard. At it's worst (thatcherism) gets declared as traditions when the traditions move past it.

It stands for discipline. But when it comes to corporal punishment does not even try to get the parents on board anymore.

Basically it a set of values with one thing in common with all others: Corrupt it and it will be evil, don't corrupt them and they will still try.

First I will say I am a fiscal conservative in the sense I believe you should pay as you go and forgo debt.

I am a social consersative in the sense that I support tolerance and the absolute separation of church and state.

I just hope the results of the past 30 yrs of the republican/conservative dominant meme is a final stake in the heart of unregulated free market capitalism.

Make no mistake the results will get everyone's attention the way the Depression got everyone's attention.

The genius of modern conservatism is getting the majority of people to vote AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS. This is accomplished by manipulating and controlling peoples emotions.

A recent example is "Joe the Plumber" who makes 40K a year and wants to buy a business that makes around a 100k a year and yet for some reason doesn't understand he needs to make over 250k in order to get a tax increase. The facts don't matter with these people it's some deep emotional problem.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
The genius of modern conservatism is getting the majority of people to vote AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS. This is accomplished by manipulating and controlling peoples emotions.

If you haven't, you should check out a book by Thomas Frank called What's the Matter With Kansas? It's a pretty good read, and spent a number of weeks as a NYT bestseller. It examines just those issues you're talking about...people voting consistently against their own economic interests due to emotional/social issues. There are a lot of counties in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska, for example, that are long-time, solidly Red-voting areas, all the while remaining poverty-stricken and victimized economically...it's as if economic issues of personal importance aren't voting issues to people in these areas.

redled, great break down in your approach, excellent way of putting it, as a set of values and principles... conservatism is not inherently flawed, it is in it's misuse that it's an abuse. Thank you for capturing the essence of what i was after in this thread.

... and Leo i couldn't agree with you more...

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
... The genius of modern conservatism is getting the majority of people to vote AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS. This is accomplished by manipulating and controlling peoples emotions. ... The facts don't matter with these people it's some deep emotional problem.

... the only distinction/adjustment i would make is at the tail end, to fine-tune "deep emotional problem" to a "state of developmental arrest". These people are stuck/trapped in an infantile naive frame of mind, that is easy prey to such political magician's toolbox of tricks... as Rove's smoke and mirrors.

... and Frank's book is a perfect segway on this note. I was turned on to "What's the Matter With Kansas?" a year or two ago when Frank was on the Daily Show. I was meaning to pick up his book from the library, but due to my tower of unreads next to my bed, i never got around to looking it up. I did run into the book this past spring at a thrift store for a couple bucks. So now thanks Vault-D's heads-up, i have pulled it off the book shelf and it now sits on the top of my "leaning jenja book tower" lol Here's a preview via google books ... thumbing through it again, i have to say, it's a perfect reference for this thread. Thanks Vault-D In the coming week i will attempt to pull some quotes from the book, for further discussion.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

... and Frank's book is a perfect segway on this note. I was turned on to "What's the Matter With Kansas?" a year or two ago ...

I also recently stumbled upon a rebuttal of the Frank book by a professor at Princeton named Larry M. Bartels. It's aptly titled "What’s the Matter with What’s the Matter with Kansas?" and you can read the .pdf of it here, on the Princeton site. It'll be interesting to see how all this analysis plays out in relation to a postmortem of the coming election.

Interesting poll recently taken that reconfirms where the bible belt lays:



Now let's take note of those states that voted for bush in the past two elections... and you'll see how religion has hijacked the brains of most politically active conservatives.

map and further details can be found via the article
State of the States: Importance of Religion

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

The people of faith i am referring to don't deserve a vote if all they are going to do is vote what their bible/torah and pastor/rabbi tells them to. We need voters who are independent free-thinkers, preferably with a conscious and have their heads in lead of their hearts.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

you might want to contact the 95% of african americans that voted for obama to not vote what their color tells them too.. we get it, you are a liberal, you want everyone to be equal. i think you are in the wrong country if you want that. conservatives are not bad, neither are liberals *although i think so*, but it is certain people that make each party look bad *nancy pelosi, harry reid, george bush*

Call it what you will...
as i said and will say again...

...preferably with a conscious and have their heads in lead of their hearts.

People who are aware of what is really going on in the world around them and vote based on accurate information without a bias or script to follow.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Came across a quote that made me question again the conservative state of mind.

"Although it is not true that all Conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are Conservative" ~ John Stuart Mill 1806–1873

How could such a brilliant man, who was at least a hundred years a head of his time, be wrong in this simple observation?

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Came across a quote that made me question again the conservative state of mind.

"Although it is not true that all Conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are Conservative" ~ John Stuart Mill 1806–1873

How could such a brilliant man, who was at least a hundred years a head of his time, be wrong in this simple observation?

i clicked that link and the quote you just listed is NOT in there. and #2 i read the wiki page and most of his ideas are conservative ideas. so he is calling himself an idiot if your post is true

Normally i would just say do your homework, for you clearly are confused, but it's your lucky day, i have it in me to school you on JSM.

One of the first male feminists:

He produced a landmark argument for equal rights for women, and throughout his life pushed for legal and political reform on their behalf—Millicent Fawcett described him as the "principal originator" of the women's movement.

An advocate for freedom of speech:

Mill made, in his famous On Liberty, a timeless case for freedom of speech and action that has inspired generation after generation around the world. But as an elderly MP he also led the successful campaign against Disraeli's attempt to ban demonstrations in public parks, especially Hyde park—a corner of which remains a symbol of free speech to this day.

A political activist:

Mill was a man who saw little value in ideas unless they were tethered to human improvement, and was brilliantly successful at using his intellectual stature to influence the politics and culture of his age. He is the greatest public intellectual in British history.
...
He was an early master of the soundbite: "Better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied"; "There remain no legal slaves except the mistress of every house"; "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative."

On the morals of slavery:

For nearly two centuries had negroes, many thousands annually, been seized by force or treachery and carried off to the West Indies to be worked to death, literally to death; for it was the received maxim, the acknowledged dictate of good economy, to wear them out quickly and import more. In this fact every other possible cruelty, tyranny, and wanton oppression was by implication included. And the motive on the part of the slave-owners was the love of gold; or, to speak more truly, of vulgar and puerile ostentation. I have yet to learn that anything more detestable than this has been done by human beings towards human beings in any part of the earth.

sources:
www.brainyquote.com...
cepa.newschool.edu...
www.prospect-magazine.co.uk...

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Normally i would just say do your homework, for you clearly are confused, but it's your lucky day, i have it in me to school you on JSM.

One of the first male feminists:

He produced a landmark argument for equal rights for women, and throughout his life pushed for legal and political reform on their behalf—Millicent Fawcett described him as the "principal originator" of the women's movement.

An advocate for freedom of speech:

Mill made, in his famous On Liberty, a timeless case for freedom of speech and action that has inspired generation after generation around the world. But as an elderly MP he also led the successful campaign against Disraeli's attempt to ban demonstrations in public parks, especially Hyde park—a corner of which remains a symbol of free speech to this day.

A political activist:

Mill was a man who saw little value in ideas unless they were tethered to human improvement, and was brilliantly successful at using his intellectual stature to influence the politics and culture of his age. He is the greatest public intellectual in British history.
...
He was an early master of the soundbite: "Better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied"; "There remain no legal slaves except the mistress of every house"; "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative."

On the morals of slavery:

For nearly two centuries had negroes, many thousands annually, been seized by force or treachery and carried off to the West Indies to be worked to death, literally to death; for it was the received maxim, the acknowledged dictate of good economy, to wear them out quickly and import more. In this fact every other possible cruelty, tyranny, and wanton oppression was by implication included. And the motive on the part of the slave-owners was the love of gold; or, to speak more truly, of vulgar and puerile ostentation. I have yet to learn that anything more detestable than this has been done by human beings towards human beings in any part of the earth.

sources:
www.brainyquote.com...
cepa.newschool.edu...
www.prospect-magazine.co.uk...

and how do any of these quotes help you school me on your hate for conservatives? not one of those quotes does anything against a conservative

It is you you, who said the following...

Originally posted by Swatman
i clicked that link and the quote you just listed is NOT in there. and #2 i read the wiki page and most of his ideas are conservative ideas. so he is calling himself an idiot if your post is true

...so why so clueless?

My last post was an attempt to correct your distorted perception, though now i can see you have just been going out of your way to paint everything black.



[edit on 12-2-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I



I see where you are coming from ( not really), but, when posting videos like you do....be prepared to get an opposite video. Enjoy!!!


www.youtube.com...

I'm sure if they had conducted a parallel poll with McCain supporters the results would show equally uninformed voters.

How many McCain supporters still think Obama is Muslim, for example? Or think Saddam Hussein attacked the U.S. on 9/11? Ignorance knows no partisan bounds.

Thank you for the heads up on this documentary/poll, the Tiny Fea skit on Palin was very funny and revealing.

An attempt to repress one's sex drive will manifest/express itself through other venues. Go figure, red states consume the most online porn, with Utah leading the pack.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Colbert Study: Conservatives Don't Know He's Joking

Last week, Stephen Colbert revisited a segment he had done on Florida Representative Bill Posey, who sponsored a bill that "would require future presidential candidates to provide a copy of their original birth certificate," in order to put insane rumors of President Barack Obama's birthplace to bed.

Colbert thought a similar measure should be taken to end the whisperings that Posey was a human-alligator hybrid. Posey, in response to Colbert, said, "I expected there would be some civil debate about it, but it wasn't civil...There is no reason to say that I'm the illegitimate grandson of an alligator." And one wondered, "Does Posey not realize that Colbert is not speaking in earnest? His reaction seems uniquely stupid!"

Stupid, yes. But apparently it's not unique at all, according to a study from The Ohio State University, which proves, with math and stuff, that lots of conservatives seem to not understand the intrinsic, underlying joke of The Colbert Report:

This study investigated biased message processing of political satire in The Colbert Report and the influence of political ideology on perceptions of Stephen Colbert. Results indicate that political ideology influences biased processing of ambiguous political messages and source in late-night comedy. Using data from an experiment (N = 332), we found that individual-level political ideology significantly predicted perceptions of Colbert's political ideology. Additionally, there was no significant difference between the groups in thinking Colbert was funny, but conservatives were more likely to report that Colbert only pretends to be joking and genuinely meant what he said while liberals were more likely to report that Colbert used satire and was not serious when offering political statements. Conservatism also significantly predicted perceptions that Colbert disliked liberalism. Finally, a post hoc analysis revealed that perceptions of Colbert's political opinions fully mediated the relationship between political ideology and individual-level opinion.

I think a lot of conservatives are going to pissed when they realize that Stephen Colbert's performance at the 2006 White House Correspondents' Dinner was not, in fact, an awkward and ineffective attempt to praise President George W. Bush, but actually a bitter and satiric criticism of his incompetence!

source: www.huffingtonpost.com...

Google Video Link

My own experience reconfirms this finding. Conservatives generally take themselves way too seriously and can't comprehend satire. I think this is in large part due to their black and white way of seeing the world.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]