Reindustrialization of America! The only solution?

In a nutshell, America fooled the rest of the world into lending it money in the form of real estate securities. We conned trillions of dollars out of foreign countries by selling junk securities dressed up with a tripple A rating. Briefly, the CRA act (Jimmy carter 1977) required Fannie and Freddie to make and sell risky real estate loans to high risk applicants. These loans were bundled together and sold as derivatives. To make them look good for lenders they got AGI insurance company to back them in case of default. Junk notes suddenly became AAA securities!

The pirate brokers took them to foreign buyers so foreigners eventually owned 2/3s of our real estate debt. Because Congressional oversight created this whole unfortunate financial structure, the US government is responsible, in the end for fixing it. That is why Bush and Congressional leaders are in such a hurry to do a fix. Our politicians are responsible!

Will the world ever lend money to the US again after we tricked them once? Obviously not so we are in deep doo doo and will need to come up with our own solutions.

The only way out is for the US to revert back to its productive past when we PRODUCED a lot of things. When we built factories, power plants, pipelines, ships, infrastructure and exported raw materials and products. We really don't have a choice. America is not a nation to sit on the sidelines.

Our political structure will soon realize that changes need to be made to allow this to happen. What changes will be needed?

The real question is: How has America changed?

I won't say it is the only solution but it is very high on the list with five stars behind it as what needs to be done.

The claims of outsourcing not having an impact are indeed true, from a certian point of view. Not all loss of manufactoring was called outsourcing.

There are many regulations in place that have to be removed one of which is a plant that could tremendiously reduce dependence on foriegn oil used in fuel, paints, plastics and virtually all things made from petro-oil...and that plant can not be freely mentioned even here on ATS.

Sure, I would like to have a small lunchcounter type dinner, but without duly employeed workers with extra income; I don't see it happening anytime soon. I could build furniture if I had the space and tools to do it, but who will buy it?

We can print and pour an infinate amount of money into the system, but it is completely useless without it getting into the hands of the people that are willing to create jobs, pay well and encourage spending so others will create jobs and keep the cycle growing.

But alas, people think I partake of that plant for other uses because I can explain things that don't make sense to others. Maybe I should start so I can be just like them and blow the whole thing off as "nothing I can do about it".

reply to post by Ahabstar



I think your self sufficiency path is a more likely path for the population...
rebuilding industry is fraught with things like billfold-draining labor union bosses, Company-stores that you will eventually 'owe your soul to"
(a old Tennessee Ernie Ford classic song)...


perhaps a lot of those mega farms that grow all those 'GM' crops will be dumped by the corporations that no longer can afford the mega farms,
and the family farm or mini-farm will take the place of the Suburban society !


will america become a internet connected community of self-reliant mini-farms ??...which specialize in their family expertise in a favored product ?
i've experimented with specialty food items...but not ever thought about it more than family use stuff... but it could be ramped up to minor commercial production if the social-economic network allowed the ma-pa farms to exist


Of course, one's mini-farm could be repairing machinery
or recycling metal... and other stuff... or perhaps brewing those bio-fuels
from the leftovers of the neighboring farms which produced edible items & had the remaining bio-mass to not go to waste. a couple tons of plant stalks might produce many, many gallons of bio-diesel

[edit on 11-10-2008 by St Udio]

Why was America able to build an oil pipeline across the state of Alaska in just a few years back in the 70's?

The biggest reason was that the legal environmental blockades were set aside. They were suspended so that the work could start. America went to work and we had a pipeline in about 4 years over the most difficult terrain in the world! Companies were still responsible for any damage they did to the countryside but work proceeded.

Typically environmental groups using environmental law will put up one legal blockade after another for endangered species, wetland, whatever issue they can find. Years and millions if not billions are spent in useless energy and whatever project goes unbuilt. America went from a country of builders and producers to the land of litigation in a couple of decades!

All it will take is the will of the people and a change in the politicians and things will proceed. When parrents realize that there is no future for their children because of the silly political decisions that they themselves allowed to happen back in the 70s and 80s their minds will change. Suddenly their own wealth, welfare and retirement will become more important when suddenly there is no future and the tough choices need to be made.

My parents remember clearly the doom and gloom of the 30's and the arrival on the scene of a president, FDR. What did FDR do? He raised taxes on businesses so even more business went under. And he established social programs like the CCCs and social security which sounded good but did nothing to end the recession. Remember what brought us out of that recession? FDR declared war on Germany and later on Japan. Can we draw some parallels here? We have just had the biggest week of losses in the Dow ever! Worse than 1929 for goodness sake! We don't want war at all cost! We need politicians that can put America back to work!

We need to lower taxes and penalties on businesses in general, not just a favored few. People of course need to keep their money not send it to Washington. All the legal congestion needs to be cleared out so that work can begin and litigation stops.

We can't afford to grow government any longer! No new programs, limit the existing programs or sunset them.

Find the politicians that put us in the present mess (Barney Frand, Chris Dodds and a whole lot of others who just sat around and allowed this to happen on both sides of the isle) and throw them out, make examples of them so that future politicians pay attention!

We need cheaper, cleaner energy and they will be found but for now we need to clear the way for ANWAR and offshore drilling. Then new, clean nuclear plants need to be put on line. All the alternative energies need to be encouraged without subsidy. There are good alternatives like solar, wind and geothermal that will work to reduce the burden on fossil fuels.

We have a tremendous reserve of coal and oil shale. Environmental restrictions prevent us from using most of the resource. Did you remember that we have the largest high grade coal deposit in the world in New Mexico? We could use it now except that Bill Clinton locked it up in 1996. Why can't it be unlocked? Congress needs to get to work!

I'd like to hear what other suggestions, ideas and changes are out there!

[edit on 11/10/08 by plumranch]

reply to post by St Udio

Of course, one's mini-farm could be repairing machinery

After this "contraction" as I call it, the price of new cars and trucks may be less but we may be less able to afford them as our priorities change.

You are right, St Udio, the guys and gals that have the ability to keep our old fleet of vehicles in running order will be in high demand! Ma and pa car, truck and tractor garages will spring up all over the country. Mister Goodwrench isn't the only guy that knows how to keep your car running smooth!

The barriers we now have that keep people out of the work force need to go! Any regulations that regulates wages, subsidizes unemployment or requires a certain class of individuals to do a job need to be seriously questions as limiting commerce and illegal. We can't afford to pay people not to work. The working person is one of our greates resources to recover our wealth!

reply to post by plumranch


Well Said !!!


bring out the entrupenership of the american individuals

Clean energy!!!




[edit on 12-10-2008 by Leo Strauss]

reply to post by plumranch



Starred and Flagged !

You are GOOD !

Really enjoy your energy .. positive, intelligent, inspirational

But maybe you're ahead of your time .. maybe there will have to be a whole lot of wailing and whining and rant about empty-shell presidential candidates and cavalry-charging intersteller saviour promises and doom and gloom misery-loves-company WAITING for 'someone to fix it' type rants ... before people begin thinking like you .. for themselves for a change and really appreciate your post and what it holds if people are just brave enough to grasp it, shake it and make it work

Great OP and posts

But maybe you're ahead of your time .. maybe there will have to be a whole lot of wailing and whining and rant about empty-shell presidential candidates and cavalry-charging intersteller...

You're right, of course, but there is reason to believe that the bottom of the Dow, the end of our anst is not over, for example there is this:
IMF Warns of Global Financial Meltdown. That is Saturday's bad news story and it will probably cause Monday's markets to tank again. Markets don't like bad news!

I've been saying for weeks that this will not resolve earlier than Febuary '08 plus or minus.

Noone wants to admit but this is going to be the biggest event of our lives. As you say, we have our heads in the ground and want to ignor what we hear. And especially we don't want to look at our 401k balances!!!!

Well, Saturday Night Live is on so I must go on to more important things! LOL!

Oh yes, and did I mention that this whole mess is more or less due to Barney Franks and Chriss Dodds? They could have prevented it if they had been truthfull a few years back!

I wonder if they will be reellected this time around??

Thanks for the post my friend!

Originally posted by plumranch
The only way out is for the US to revert back to its productive past when we PRODUCED a lot of things. When we built factories, power plants, pipelines, ships, infrastructure and exported raw materials and products. We really don't have a choice. America is not a nation to sit on the sidelines.

I've often thought about starting a thread on similar lines about Britain.

Many of the things you complain about is equally applicable to here too. We have no manufacturing industry to speak of at all in this country. This manufacturing industry was the traditional employment base for the working classes in Britain. The manufacturing industry was replaced by a boom in a largely office-based service industry - traditionally the domain of the British middle-classes - but that is now being outsourced abroad. I'm fairly sure many Americans recognise this development.

Britain needs to be producing again, but starting from scratch. The world has arrived at the point where we need different, new products. Our reliance on wasteful and resource-inefficient products has come to an end. There is a need for new paradigm in manufacturing as well as their being a the market for it and there's definitely a need for manufacturing jobs.

The problem is, as always, Big Business with an eye on short-term profits. If, over the last few decades, Business hasn't been willing to invest rather than just exploit, much of the problem we're seeing now, around the world, wouldn't be happening.

just to add to the dimension of the thread...

this link, especially the last several paragraphs have to do with the positive-outcome='benefits' of the approaching credit-system demise


...and have a look at the numberous comments/replys

www.realitysandwich.com...


thanks,


oh, & in the index, the last article : "Don't Bail Out, Build Out ..."
is worth reading too.

reply to post by St Udio

Hi St Udio, Thanks for the post and stared.

Back in the 30's there was a huge recession, turned depression. That turned into a deep depression. The reasons it turned out so badly in retrospect were over use of import tarrifs (Hoover), followed by overtaxation of citizens and business by FDR, followed by the reliance on social programs that were designed to put people back to work but did relatively nothing (FDR). Present consensus is that the depression could have been ended by 1936 if they had the machinery in place to pump liquidity (that was dearly needed) into the system. The Fed was in existance then but they hadn't tested their wings, so to speak and didn't know yet what would be effective.

In the end FDR had to plung the US into a major war to get us out of our economic delema.

How does this relate to present day? Well, St Udio, the blog refered to in your post stated that as resources are more and more limited and demand and money supplies increase, there is going to be a crash sometime inevitably. Just a matter of time. After that we return to a barter society or something similar unless we somehow prop up the system.

On one hand I agree and that is the point of this thread, that we need to take this capitulation very seriously and make major changes ASAP. On the other hand, we are not on a gold standard nor is any other country. That means we have faith in the government and its ability to back up the currency and its financial needs. What actually happens in the financial world today is poorly understood by almost everyone. It's in cyberspace somewhere.

The market today said it is happy with what G7 and our government is doing.

Do you agree?

reply to post by plumranch


I agree completely. We have an economy teetering on just riches but having abandoned wealth. The difference? Wealth is built with genuine goods and some services. It is grounded in economic self-sufficiency. Even our information technology is not a primary product line - in hard times, people will forgo soft- and hardware advances to save money. We need essentials, both capital and consumer goods of durability as the foundation of our self sufficiency. All nations need that, with trade being what Adam Smith promoted - the exchange of your strengths, not abandonment of essentials. No other civilization ever gave up its own productive base and replaced it with nothing. It's not the 'buggy whip' argument - whips were replaced with gear shifts. Today we have made this nation weak and dependent on imports of basics, leaving us "more fragile in every sector save the paper trading of speculative finance. We must restore the circulation of goods within our nation if we are going to survive in a healthy way. Industrial production of capital goods is not inimical to the environment and IS a strength for the vitality of our communities and regions. We need to regain our commitment to industrial production, couple it with environmental protections, restore an employment base that pays well and upon which families can grow, and restore greater control over those productive entities by those who work in them and the communities in which they operate. Enough with the Second Gilded Age. We need the restoration of a "common good" economy that benefits everyone.

so...we need to build factories, pollute the environment, cut down all the trees and devastate natural habitats so that we can have a good economy?

why do we need the economy? oh right right, because it allows a few at the top of the pyramid to control everyone else. and since they have the police, armies, bombs and guns, we are stuck with it...for now

why do we need the economy? oh right right, because it allows a few at the top of the pyramid to control everyone else. and since they have the police, armies, bombs and guns, we are stuck with it...for now

reply to post by warrenb


The short answer about why we need the economy is to provide the means of everyday living for our people. Ask anyone who lived through the pain, suffering, hunger and deprivation of the 1930s and they will assure you that a stable economy is vital for people's wellbeing, happiness, and escape from the misery so common in other countries.
They will tell you what going hungry fealt like!

In the last 70 years this ecomomy ended a world war and all of its violence, misery, waist, environmental devistation and human suffering. We eliminated hunger for almost all of our citizens and provided for their basic needs. In addition our economy has eliminated most major environmental problems so common in 3rd world societies. This was possible because we had the means and the will to make positive environmental changes. Imagine a country where major environmental problems are not cleaned up and dealt with because scarce resources cannot be spared for such non essential projects! We have tried to provide for the hungry and needy of the world in numerous aid programs. The list goes on and on.

In this time of change I think we could do better. There are better ways to spend money and resources like energy independence, alternative energy and increased energy efficiency. I think everyone should have energy efficient housing and use alternative heating and energy generation as I have done. But I nor any other American can tell others what or how to live. But we can live by example and choose leaders with realistic ideas!