Stocks Stomped in Financial Freefall

reply to post by lynn112


My reason of faith. The status quo. The status quo benefits them, why would they want a collapse. They live the high life and make billions on us. A collapse in the system is the last thing they want. It would be the end of the golden era.

Everyone here speaks as though the greed of the last 100 years hasn't benefitted them. That is plain ignorant. You look at like 100 years ago, compare it to today, and tell me we haven't benefitted. Our quality of life is a result of the pursuit to make lots and lots of money.

Internet, television, video games, entertainment in general, that is all a result of making money. Medicine is another one. Money can be made in medicine, thats why it progresses so much. Thats why so much funding gets put toward it.

Ideals don't drive the better quality of life, money does.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by lynn112

 

Funny how the basic needs of today were yesterdays high life, isn't it? People are just spoiled. The quality of life in the US is incredibly high. There will always be poor, but go take a look at the quality of life for the poor 50 years ago and tell me that life is so horrible.

I agree with you there. I have always lived with the minimal. I don't have much that would be considered a luxury expect for my computer & internet. (home built BTW) My cars are old & when something breaks, I fix it rather than buying new. I grow my own food, buy from the farmer & only buy what is needed. I don't own ipods, cell phones or any other gadget.

My kids are taught the value of a dollar & how to seperate needs from wants. Unfortuantely, most don't teach this value to their children & we end up with a generation of "keeping up with the Jone's"

reply to post by TXPatriot38


You say that people will not push for change, but then in the same post, prefer the VERY RISKY option of a collapse. You do realize that after a collapse, the new system that results is dependent upon the will of the people? You say that the people, after staring this crisis dead in the face, will do nothing, but then you believe these same people will build some better system? That doesn't make much sense to me.

In reality, if these people sit idle rather than fix the system, I FEAR what will happen when these people exist in a collapsed system. There complacency will be replaced with fear and desperation. There is no doubt, that if people are so lazy as to not change the system when it nearly fell apart right under them, that these people will allow the most corrupt and ill willed group of people to take control of this country with empty promises.

If you are correct that people will do nothing to change the system, you should be very afraid if the system were to collapse. Afraid for all the rights you will lose, and perhaps much much more.

To put the thread sort of back on topic....... I'm guessing that we'll hit a low of 8,000 tomorrow with continued dips of between 300 and 400 points daily until it hits bottom. (at about 7,000 IMO)

reply to post by grimreaper797


You keep saying I want the system to collapse. What's wrong with you? You can hang on to the hope that the bailout was designed to save everything and that they (the fed and wall street) have our best interest at heart and now they will "examine" the system, learn from their mistakes and fix it. But I'm not holding my breath. That same "they" that caused the problem are now offering the solutions. Trust them? Ha!

And BTW I have a business and my wife has a business and I dearly wish this problem would just go away and we could keep living the life we have. But the greedy people of the world wanted more and more and still they want more. I DO NOT WANT AN ECONOMIC MELTDOWN TO OCCUR. But I live in the real world and I am not going to bury my head in the sand.

What is more probable? The fed has our best interest at heart and they are just bumbling fools? or they have an agenda of their own which may differ from America's best interest and they planned this down to the last detail, to get new powers and consolidate wealth.

reply to post by lynn112


You are part of the poor class. Yet you survive relatively easy in comparison with some of the people in the past. That is part of my point. The idea that people are "just getting by" in reality isnt really true.

People would be completely shocked by what it REALLY means to just be getting by. Some people have 3 meals, a roof, heat and electric, and they some how believe they are "just getting by", and that is my point.

reply to post by 2 cents


I never said the bailout would "save" anything. I said it would give us time. I don't expect government to willingly examine the system. I expect people to. If they don't, then god help us when the system collapses because there is no chance anything good could become of it.

If people can't take something thats partially great and make it into something better, how do you expect them to make something better than what we have from scratch?

I don't buy it for a second.

The 150 Billion dollar "stimulus package" from the over the summer didn't make a dent. It didn't even make a sound. Completely worthless- unless you're a politician because it bought them more time to act like idiots.

You must believe that we have a bunch of single celled organisms running this country. They aren't that smart, but they didn't have to do much homework to know this was coming. That "stimulus" package was nothing more than a "eat some sugar and shut up people" medicine for what was to come in the following months.

People have been warning about this for years. YEARS. I'd be happy to provide you with a books worth of articles by scholars guaranteeing it was on it's way. Yet now you're telling me that this 700 billion dollar package is going to be the spark that lights the flame? How is that possible?

At BEST it will delay the inevitable. MAJOR change needs to be made. If our government couldn't figure that out in the span of a few years, what gives you any confidence at all that this bailout is going to give them enough time to solve the problems? They aren't interested in solving the problem.

This is no accident, and that bailout plus this market crisis is the biggest crime our government has committed against the country to date.






There isn't a word to accurately explain how furious it makes me.








[edit on 9-10-2008 by slicely]

[edit on 9-10-2008 by slicely]

reply to post by slicely


Congress, as well as the american people, are reactionary. They always have been. This problem doesn't effect me, I don't care. That is how it has been for longer than I can remember. Its been that way since before most of us were even born. They aren't going to react to a warning. They react to the fire burning the house down.

Eventually, they will come across a fire that they can't put out, but I don't believe this fire is the one.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by 2 cents

 

I don't expect government to willingly examine the system. I expect people to. If they don't, then god help us when the system collapses because there is no chance anything good could become of it.

Well I agree with you on that point.

We will just have to disagree on how we think things may turn out and by the way I hope your right. It would be great if the bailout allowed us time to fix everything. My problem is I just can't help thinking that the "fix" is already in, if you know what I mean.

you can quote pearl jam, its a "world wide suicide"

reply to post by grimreaper797



I live this way by choice, not necessity. (I’m actually middle class if you go solely by household income) I just don’t value material items, I value family.

The issue I have is that I choose to live this way, but with the economy, it may no longer be a choice. I don’t know how many people could live this way and consider themselves fine. I’m fine, I know it, but I doubt those on the outside would realize that considering my car is 11 years old & my house needs a coat of paint. They would consider us poor, but we’re not even close to poor. Poor is living in a shake with no running water & going to an outhouse for the midnight potty run. Poor is waiting in a food line because your cupboards are empty. I’m far from poor.

I apologize for not making myself clearer, let me try again.

I am not talking about The People (the common man) I refer to the PTB. The same PTB that gave us the FED to begin with (without our prior approval). The same greedy people that worry more about making HUGE profits than allowing an individual to work, and making a little less profit, but still profit. The same same people that are now trying to prop up this bad system long enough, in my opinion, to beat a hasty retreat and move to a new sucker (possibly China) so they can start the process over again.

reply to post by 2 cents


Honestly, I don't see the people in power benefitting from the status quo being destroyed. They have spent decades becoming the most powerful people in the world. Why risk that?

Also, thus far, people have PROVEN through history that good comes from desire, not desperation. The american revolution came from a desire for more freedom and more room to do what they wanted. It didn't come from a desperation to survive, or a result of the quality of life collapsing from under them.

They could have just as well been colonists for the rest of their lives and survived. Been ok. They weren't fighting to survive though. Things weren't falling apart around them, it was quite the opposite. There was opportunity all around them, and they had the desire to sieze it.

Desperation just allows for manipulation, and history has proven it. If any good is to happen in this country, it will be by desire. Let us prop this system up and see if this crisis/wake up call will give us the desire to better the system. What do we have to lose?

reply to post by lynn112


Yes but you are poor by american standards, and thats my point. In reality how many people are really "just getting by" in america. People are "just getting by" in africa. That is just getting by. We aren't going to reach that point unless the system collapses. In which case, people will freak out and radicalize, following whoever promises their old quality of life, however brutal the means.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by grimreaper797]

NO one wants the economy to crash. we all are scared as hell to what is coming down the pike at us at the speed of light. However Grim you want to prop up the broken system when they should have done that 14 months ago when the sub-prime mess started. we're at the 2 minute warning of the 4th quarter of the football game and the other team has the ball.

Everything that the Fed and the treasury has done so far to prop up the broken system has only sped up the fall. all the wall street talking head "experts" are saying this is the worse decline since the great depression.

if you figure in the whole unemployment rate not just the official first time filers, the unemployment rate would be way over 6.1% that it is now with just the first time filers for the last 9 months.

The system that your pushing to fix is broke has been broke since the late 80's. no one has even tried to fix it. in fact they keep taking out the oversight and regulations.

you say the bottom is 7500 on the dow and it will rebound you do realize that is only 1079.19 points from todays close. do you honestly think that by monday the dow won't be close to 7000.

The moral of the story is the market is retracting, the economy has slowed, unemployment is through the roof, i read an article earlier on bloomberg that is saying the recession that the experts say we just entered will be severe, and will last until at least 2010. everyone here knows we have been in a recession for awhile now.

all the indicators are saying depression except our GDP so i'd say at the very least we are in a mild depression right now, 15 states are close to bankruptcy and its only going to get worse. you can throw all the money in the world at the U.S. economy right now nothing is going to stop this train wreck until we are near the bottom of, or threw the basement floor.

we all see the writing on the wall and we don't like what it says and we know the system has to be changed. but we are powerless to change the system until the system comes crashing down.

Then there are people like you that are either blind and can't see the writing on the wall or you just don't want to accept it. So you tow the government line saying we need a bailout that more than likely won't work. its already failed on one of its purposes. it was suppose to calm the markets since rescue was on the way. we all see how well that worked.

you want the government to have more control over your money then fine, you send them your paycheck, i'd like to keep as much of mine as i can so i can finish stocking up on supplies for when the SH#T really hits the fan.

on a side note about the bailout most of the money for it will come from the sale of T-Bill and the like that are guaranteed by the government but we'll be stuck paying the interest on those bills.


[edit on 10/9/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Mercenary2007]

At this point of the stock market meltdown, I feel the worst for people
who have retired, or soon will be. The folks who rely on receiving a
percentage of their portfolio each month saw their October 1st check
smaller than it was in September and there's every indication that
their November 1st check will be (on average) 15% smaller than
October 1st.

This photo of George Bush from a few days ago is a reflection of
how many retirees are feeling right now who come into our office..
abcnews.go.com...
Dispair, Hurt, Resignation..the whole gamut. I sure hope things
turn around quickly for their sake especially.
-CWM

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by 2 cents

 

Honestly, I don't see the people in power benefitting from the status quo being destroyed. They have spent decades becoming the most powerful people in the world. Why risk that?

I don't think that they are really risking anything. There are other places they can take their wealth and ours and continue to play.

The problem with greed and power is that there is no end to it. There is no being content with what you have If you could have more.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

California just came out today and said it probably wont need to borrow the money. I would also agree it is like a football game and it is the two minute warning. However I disagree, I think we have the ball and it is first and 10 on the 20.

I hate to mention this, but I'm a realist and don't dance around cold hard facts so here it goes...

The old adage people like to kick a dog when it's down comes to mind, and I hope I'm wrong, but it is something we all need to consider to be ready in case it happens.

If it happens I see no choice but to declare curfews and martial law. It will start off as being good for the country, and then suddenly turn bad for most. Again, not trying to be an alarmist, but sometimes a heads up can help one avoid a bad situation.