Bernake, Paulson hearing on bailout sickens me

Ok, so its 12:50 and I have class in like an hour, but I'm skipping it because I started watching this hearing Bernake and Paulson are having right now, and it made me want to throw something at my tv.

The gist of what is being said is this; that although this plan may seem unfair and massive, we need to do it now, and then we can adopt different measures later. All of the senators their are asking them all softball questions like "Isn't their a chance the taxpayer could make money off of this?" and "If a better plan comes along can we change to it?" to which Paulson gets to further beat his chest and talk about how this plan isn't to help these companies, its to help the taxpayer.

I am sickened by this. As discussed on other threads, this bailout has so many shady provisions in it it is unbelievable, not the least of which is that any of the decisions they make can't be reviewed in court. Yet to this point, not one person has questioned it. We have had Senators Dodd and Shumer come out in the media as if they are looking out for the taxpayer, but when they get to ask questions, they do nothing.

Another thing that disturbed me was Paulson's willingness to say that the plan could evolve in the future. He said this to ensure Dodd that equity may be included in the future, but to me that proves exactly why we shouldn't do this. The bill calls for no judicial oversight, and now they are saying the plan can be altered, well then who to say it isn't altered more at the expense of the taxpayer even further?

I can see exactly how this will play out now though. All of the congresspeople that vote for this will say the following; we don't want to do this, but things are so bad we have to, and the taxpayer MIGHT get most of their money back, and we can always change it if it doesn't work. Todays dog and pony show was held because many American's are mad about this, and now the congresspeople will have an excuse as to why the voted for this.

It gets even more horrific than this though. The talking heads have started talking about this now, and the first thing I heard an analyst say (sorry forget his name) is that the taxpayer needs to stop worrying if this is fair, it just needs to happen and it doesn't matter if some people get rich off of it. Yep, thats their feeling. The taxpayer needs to forget about the fact that they are getting screwed, and instead be frightened to death so you give all of your rights and money up.

I'm tired of this. No one is really challenging what these people are saying, (a few exceptions) and now they are starting to make excuses for it. To anyone reading this; DON"T ACCEPT THESE EXCUSES!!!! No matter what these people say, this is one of the single most fascists plans ever written, and is designed purely to take wealth from the poor and middle class, and give it to the rich. Checkout the bailout bill thread, and tell all of your friends and families what is happening, and tell them to vote out every single person that votes for this bill. That will be the only way we can start to fight this corruption.

you tied it together rather well...thanks for the thread


to me, (of course i have a bias that Paulson & Bernanke are gaming the unenlightened)
to my eye & ear Paulson and Bernanke are spouting oblique generalities & rather clumsy in trying to evade real answers.


take for instance... How will the pricing of the unmarketable assets be determined?
the answer was ...through a reverse auction.

well, the fact is we (we meaning the Treasury fund) have to start with either the 'Firesale' price...or the 'held-to-maturity' price.

note: the 'held-to-maturity' price was a highly exaggerated value which the mortgage holder gave to the asset.... (which had the effect of ginning up the companys books)
that questionably valued asset could be an ARM, Alt-A, no-down Balloon or any number of the exotic mortgages now clogging up the mortgage markets.


so.imho.... the Treasury sould price everything at the 'firesale' price.
Instead of having these many mortgage paper holders refuse to accept the low ball price that the Treasury places at the reverse auction.

because if they all refuse the low ball prices for the troubled securities---the markets will still be locked up...until the Treasury relents and opens the bidding at the 'held-to-maturity' price.
I would be troubled if these many financial houses all held out for the optimum price of the securities that were sitting 'dead' in their balance books to begin with.


there's just too much room for subterfuge and chicanery...and i think both are alive and well in this bailout review

IMO, the tone of the hearings was established when Paulson gave a veiled threat:

Paraphrasing - Paulson said that the bailout is necessary because non-financial type companies were having a liquidity problem which would then spread throughout the economy.

Translated in street terms: "Give us all of your money or we will kill you."

Really, what could the Senators say after that?

I'm watching it right now as well. It's like Paulson is attempting to terrorize congress into passing the bill. We are so screwed.

If they pass it we get hyperinflation, if not we have financial collapse. So either way we are screwed.

Well I have been listening and it seems that the Fed take over Aka bail out is starting to look and sound for what it is.

Is nothing but a scam to the tax payer in order to acquired a power grab of our nations government by a shadow group of bankers from all over the world that owns the Federal reserve.

Well I guess we the people has raised a lot of hell and it seems that this coup by the fed Aka bail out, will be hard to sell to the Congress.

Let thanks that is election year and everybody in congress is looking to look good in the eyes of the tax payers and voters.

The fed and Paulson gift to the tax payer is more loans so they can start another housing bubble again.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by kosmicjack


They might have responded as follows:

"Mr. Secretary, have you ever lied to Congress?"

"Mr. Bernake, have you ever lied to Congress?"

"Gentlemen, are you aware of the penalty for misrepresenting the truth to this body of representatives of the United States of America?"

"Before we proceed any further, would either of you care to seek the advice of an attorney? Or do you wave that privilege?"

Then recess for a day.

Tomorrow's testimony will be quite different. I promise.

reply to post by Maxmars


I only wish that were the case. But we have seen over and over that these people have no respect for the law, and consider it their right to lie to whomever they want, including Congress.

And the Justice Dept is as corrupt as any of them and will not enforce subpeonas, nor any Congressional action against the lying SOBs.

Just one of the many things we can thank the BushCo mis-administration for.

Look you can say that this is unfair, and i agree with it to a T but the sad part is, there is nothing we can do about. Our ultimatium is to let the poo hit the fan, if thats the case then we as a country is doomed.

Imagine this scenerio; We do our ultimatium and let it crash, as a society the united states must seek out to get resources. We as a military with such strong capabilities will do what happens when ever a collapse happens goto war. Countries will use nuclear detterence to try to appease us, the clamor from the american people who generally are fickle (besides the ones on her who want the truth) will say # it do the last remaining option. The world would have to lunch nukes at us out of the perception of preperations, we would lunch back, and destroy the world five times over.


"We will stop playing the price is right, and start playing saving private ryan" Mead 92

The only true statement I heard out of Paulson's testamony was when he admitted how messed up the entire regulatory system is (SEC to the Federal Reserve) DUH

[edit on 23-9-2008 by Skydancer]

After further analysis, this is not MOAB (Mother Of All Bailouts). It is in fact the last phase of the boodless coup that has taken over the U.S. Govt. Yes it is the Neocons, and with this bill, we become an un-adulterated fascist dictatorship.

We the people are being looted to "bail out" a bunch of rich bankers whose greed has bankrupted this nation. Furthermore if this bill passes it will completely destroy the democracy that was pretty much gone anyway. Congress will have completely signed away what little power they had left.

I will no longer have any confidence in my governments ability to govern me, or protect my interests.(there wasn't much left anyway)

R.I.P America

Hello 4th reich.

reply to post by Grambler


Paulson: You have two options.

Option A: You pass the bill and keep the language to that provided before the Weekend and pass it fast. You assume a maximum of 700billion in debts at any one time paid directly from the treasury (not the Federal Reserve, but directly from tax payer to limit inflation). You give me more power over the economy then Congress and you accept bailing out corporations to preserve future tax income from them and saving your economy.

Option B: You don't pass the bill, you limit the bill, you alter the language of the bill, if you even look at the bill in the wrong way.. your economy will collapse, corporations will fire hundreds of thousands of people, small businesses will no longer get loans, credit restrictions not seen since before the Great Depression will be implemented, a free fall of Stock values, the collapsing of major financial institutions and the chaotic free fall of every single major world market at the same time in conjunction with free fall depreciation of home values, of tax revenue and consequently the complete collapse of America's ability to honor debts leading to National bankruptcy and possibly the collapse of the Federal Government.

So .. you have your options, vote wisely *insert evil laugh*

I say collapse the darn federal government, they don't need to be in existence.

I vote for hyperinflation. We will muddle through it and adjust to new realities.

To allow a massive crash is really to invite the sort of instability in the world which will not only cause much pain and suffering at home, but an unknowable amount of death and destruction overseas.

Furthermore, if you are looking for revolution through financial distress, remember that the government we get after a depression will probably be much more tyrannical than the one we live with now.

I hate to say it, but Bernanke and Paulson are right. It must be done.

....Economic collapse literally a few weeks before a Presidential Election?

fogedaboudet!

We will sooner see Lord Emperor George The First before we would see an economic collapse on the Rep's hands 6 weeks prior an election..

Maybe 700billion is enough to see us through November..

Maybe 700billion is enough to see us through November..

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is why one side of the congress wants this to go through without any questions.

While the other side of congress now is kind of seating back and asking questions.

Things like this make you humm and Aaaah.

reply to post by SquoSolves


OR the people could pull together as they did during WW2.Everyone bearing part of the load.People pulling together for the sake of the republic.Becomming interdependent,putting people to work creating the goods and services we need.Instead of importing cheap labor goods from Asia. Rebuilding a strong country where the only entitlement is the ability to achieve.The only thing we give one another is a purpose.We need to return to the moral roots this country was founded upon.You succed by your own merit.
Letting the economy crash would be uncomfortable to say the least.However I believe it would work to our benefit in the long run.
This bailout is just another master stroke,painting our new reality.We need to stop it now.Or we will be little more than slaves to the Federal reserve.

reply to post by Grumble



You honestly think this isn't going to crash because they pass the proposal?

It's going to crash either way, it's just a matter of when. I say let it crash now, while our Constitution is still in tact. WHICH BTW they don't have to write it that way for a true bailout, so why is it written the way it is?

This whole proposal IS tyranny. We are going to have as rough a time as any of us can imagine no matter what they do. The gig is up. The question is do we swallow it on their terms or ours?

The doom and gloom being forecasted as a threat to Congress is going to happen either way, they waited too long and this proposal as written does not save us or anyone but themselves (thoses responsible for this mess we are in). The forecast happens no matter what we do now.



[edit on 9/23/2008 by Relentless]

reply to post by Relentless


You have made a very important point that I think should be spread far and wide: Things will be bad either way. We can either bail Wall St. out and saddle our children and grandchildren with the long-term financial burden and STILL have a recession or depression OR we can let the chips fall were they may and deal with it.

One motto I have always subscribed to is: Never make a permanent decision based on a temporary situation.

WE will have hard economic times - regardless - the question is whether we want to pay that forward to future generations.

this is the closest thread to the info i'd like to point out.



durimg the last 2 days hearings, with Bernanke & Paulson, answering in oblique terms....

Just why didn't Bernanke at the Fed. tell the congressmen that the Fed
loan window was busy as heck ->
last week alone the Fed window lent out $187.75bn per day to financial borrowers. That equals $938.75billion in one week.

Wednesday of last week, the 'primary dealers', took out $105.66billion
from the Fed Window.
[these numbers were seen at 4:40pm eastern, on MSNBC TV, in those pop up boxes]

??Now.... with that ~Trillion dollars of capital from the Fed Window...
along with the other money borrowed over the past two months..

the Banks need another $700billion no questions asked, before Oct 1st ?!

to my reckoning the credit crunch should have been lubricated with the
$1.5 trillion already lent to the banks, AIG bailout, Freddie/Fannie nationalization,
ADD: the other $130billion injection to global central-banks last week
and the emergency $30billion to two european central banks
________________________________________________________


banks etc already got over $1.7Trillion dollars in the last 10-11 days
And the FED insists the Gov't hand over another $700billion in the next 5 days.


is there a bunch of 'complex securities' due at the end-of-quarter (sept 30th)

? why didn't Bernanke tell the questioners about the $938billion dollars the Fed lent out last week, to the 'troubled' banks??

[edit on 25-9-2008 by St Udio]