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Topic started on 22-9-2008 @ 03:27 PM by MandM
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Why does everyone think the Nazis were on the far right of the political spectrum?
They were actually on the far left.
-The Nazis were socialists.
-The Nazis loved big government.
-The Nazis loved tight government control of the people.
-The Nazis legalized abortion in Germany.
-The Nazis believed in euthanasia.
-The Nazis were fanatical about trying to establish a secular society free of Christianity, and they did whatever they could to stamp the Christian
faith out of the public schools and out of public life.
You still don't believe me? All of this is documented:
themoralcollapseofamerica.blogspot.com...
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 03:39 PM by ...and justice for some
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Yeah sorry but i think your wrong... your entitled to your own opinion but thank God i dont have to agree with it....
Yes the Nazi's started of as a socialist workers party but thats not what they turned into they were fascist pure and simple.
Yes the Nazi's liked big and controlling government.... this would be cause they were Fascist.
Abortion and euthanasia weren't developed for solely the termination of pregnancy but for genocide.
The replaced got and Christ with Hitler cause if you worship him your gonna listen to him. nothing to do with some grand religious conspiracy.
Yeah all this stuff i said is documented... in official reports online history books across the world (yes even in Germany)
yeah and thats an awesome source you've got there... some dudes blog???
Peace
Justice
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 03:40 PM by harvib
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reply to post by MandM
What is the point of this post. I am not trying to be rude but am genuinely interested in the point you are trying to make. It just eludes me.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 04:42 PM by mental modulator
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Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by MandM
noun
the doctrines, methods, or movement of the Fascisti
a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under
centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc.
a political movement based on such policies
fascist behavior
private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism...
NONE of the above fit liberal doctrine...
liberalism ; especially : economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms
designed to secure these objectives.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by mental modulator]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 05:10 PM by mental modulator
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reply to post by mental modulator
There is a very old argument about who controlled whom in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany at various points in the timeline of power. It is agreed
that the army, the wealthy, and the big corporations ended up with much more say in decision making than other elements of the corporative
state[24][25][26]. There was a power struggle between the fascist parties/leaders and the army, wealthy, and big corporations. It waxed and waned
as to who had more power at any given time. Scholars have used the term "Mussolini's corporate state" in many different ways[27].
Franklin D. Roosevelt in an April 29, 1938 message to Congress warned that the growth of private power could lead to fascism:
The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes
stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other
controlling private power.[28][29][30]
YA... UH this is not a left view... IN fact it sounds like FREE MARKET GOP talk.
SORRY.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by mental modulator]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 05:14 PM by Zepherian
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Well, at the extremes left and right touch. Deregulation of an economy under right wing economic principles and philosophy ends up with strong
monopolistic corporations that invade the public sector, taking it over. Once they have invaded they want more government, more power, more control,
more money, less individual rights, less free speech, less individual freedom for those not part of the economic elite. Free capitalism leads to
fascism, corporativism.
The diference is that formally socialism is control of the state by the people, but in a representative system that is a bit of a pipe dream. Money
corrupts the representatives and changes the nature of the system.
There has never been a real large scale socialist or communist government that was true to it's principles. Likewise, there has never really been a
real large scale capitalist economic system that didn't end up with excessive centralization of wealth and fascism.
The systems need to be tweaked, by popular will manifested in law, to take into account their respective vulnerabilities, to evolve into a hybrid
system that would allow us the respective benefits while sidestepping the historically documented pitfalls. Break out of the left right paradigm,
it's not usefull.
In the end, as with everything in life, it's all about balance.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by Zepherian]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 05:32 PM by sir_chancealot
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Sorry, but Nazis have traditionally been held to be at the far right end up the political spectrum (as are all fascists). Communism has traditionally
been held to be at the far left end of the political spectrum.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 05:59 PM by counterterrorist
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counterterrorist: Being right-handed or left-handed has nothing to do with being free or enslaved. "Right" and "Left" are used today by people who
do not understand the difference between freedom and slavery, and between health and suffering ... all you have to do is look in a mirror and see
people have a right hand and a left hand. And, we know how far they reach, and why.
A German Catholic Jesuit (Weishaupt) founded the Illuminati -- the German Jewish & Gentile nazi banking families at the top of the nazi/fascist
O-WO-NWO financial pyramid used the nazi sheeple and german people like cat litter and barf bags -- and also the ally sheeple.
Antony Sutton is the premiere scholar and talking about Nazi 'socialism', Communist 'socialism', and Roosevelt's democracy 'socialism' ... I'm
sure you will benefit from these videos, as I did. The youtube videos below explain his positions and his credentials and authority
(documentation).
& Wall Street financing & supplying technology to Hitler.
Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & rise of Hitler 1 talks about Wall Street financing & supplying technology to Hitler & to USSR communists, from
day 1.
www.youtube.com...
Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & rise of Hitler talks about Wall Street supplying financing, arms & technology to USSR for Vietcong to use
against U.S.A. troops; as well as U.S.A. supplying nuclear & missile technology to USS.R. during Cold War.
www.youtube.com...
It's ironic that the nazis and neo-nazis do not realize their masters are the German Jewish and gentile bankers who financed them and led them to
slaughter [pun intended].
www.abovetopsecret.com...
MandM: All of this [referring to this string's opening post] is documented:
themoralcollapseofamerica.blogspot.com...
counterterrorist: None of it is documented ... which is too bad. You're just citing someone's 'blog', or opinion. On ATS the term,
"documentation" refers to news accounts from newspapers and magazines and to reputable sources. The site you are citing as a source of documentation
DOES NOT DOCUMENT anything because it is a 'blog' -- without documentation. It is unfortunate, because had the blogger, who is apparently primarily
informed, actually documented what he said, it would be useful both for those who love neo-nazis and for those who hate neo-nazis.
Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & rise of Hitler 5 talks about Tri-Lateral Commission & Council on Foreign Relations as both being
Rockefeller's.
www.youtube.com...
Mein Kampf is regarded as 'propaganda', not documentation ... only the nazis and neo-nazis cite it as 'documentation' -- it is a document designed
to produce sheeple followers. Besides, probably none of the anti-semitic thought in that book originated with Hitler, as it was simply a compendium of
all the existing anti-semitic thought collected in large measure from Czarist propaganda and the Holy Roman Empire (composed only of Romans, but of
Germans), and well as anti-Semitic.
It's very easy to be confused by propaganda, or by agreeing to think and argue in terms of duality, black & white, right & left, good & bad. As
opposed to thinking in terms of what helps people or harms them. It's useful to think in basics, rather than get lost in abstractions (over-thinking)
and rationalizations ... as sheeple only follow and reguritate what they are told to think or are led to believe.
However, this being said, I'm sure you will enjoy the discussions about the nazis in the videos below -- as both the "right" and the "left" were
financed by the German Jewish & Gentile bankers, who financed communism and naziism and democracy and socialism ... primarily because it gave people
something to argue about and fight over while all the time the bankers were financing German General Staff (Hitler) and the Communist Party of Russia
(the Bolsheviks) and the revolutions in Communist China.
Originally posted by MandM
Why does everyone think the Nazis were on the far right of the political spectrum?
counterterrorist: The nazi sheeple murdered everyone who believed in democracy. They prefered genocide and murder and torture of people and stealing
capital instead of earning it. They kept slaves, and bought and sold people and starved them.
MandM: The Nazis were socialists.
counterterrorism: You'd do well to define socialism, in all its three varieties: Communist socialism, Nazi socialism, Democracy socialism. And,
you'd do well to define fascism in terms of Communist fascism, Nazi fascism, and Democracy fascism. -- however, there doesn't seem to be any
democracies, anymore -- does there?
Prescott Bush & Adolph Hitler both joined Skull & Bones. Bush joined U.S.A. chapter in 1917 & Hitler joined German chapter in 1919.
see,
www.abovetopsecret.com...
G. W. Bush’s granddad, Prescott Bush joined Skull & Bones in 1917. Two years later, Adolph Hitler joined German Skull & Bones in Germany.
The full name: The Skull & Bones Order Of The Brotherhood Of Death
Professor Sutton on Skull & Bones secret society 3
www.youtube.com...
Professor Sutton on Skull & Bones secret society 1
www.youtube.com...
Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & rise of Hitler 2
www.youtube.com...
Professor Sutton on Skull & Bones secret society 2
www.youtube.com...
Professor Antony Sutton: Wall Street & rise of Hitler 3
www.youtube.com...
(this included because I'm currently researching Vatican & Holy Roman Empire (German) interlocks w/the German bankers & founding of Bank of England &
Fed -- The Vatican Billions www.cephasministry.com... )
(this too, for same reasons -- also, Does Vatican own your mortgage?
www.willthomasonline.net... )
[edit on 22-9-2008 by counterterrorist]
[edit on 22-9-2008 by counterterrorist]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:04 PM by scientist
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Originally posted by MandM
-The Nazis legalized abortion in Germany.
-The Nazis believed in euthanasia.
ha, I love the way you phrased these points. It's as if you were suggesting that people had a choice, to just decide for themselves. If you want to
call eugenics and genocide "legalized abortion," and "euthanasia"  , you are free to do so. Unfortunately, to everyone other than those who
share your same mentality, you lost your argument before you even had a chance to finish it.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:16 PM by whaaa
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Originally posted by MandM--The Nazis were fanatical about trying to establish a secular society free of Christianity, and they did
whatever they could to stamp the Christian faith out of the public schools
I think this is an attempt at smearing the Liberal/DNC with the Nazi tag thru bogus comparisons by a right wing conservative Christian.
Most of us here have read this.....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
MandM, have you read it?
and this guy themoralcollapseofamerica.blogspot.com...
Didn't even have the guts to sign his own blog.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by whaaa]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:21 PM by counterterrorist
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reply to post by counterterrorist
www.abovetopsecret.com..., specifically (AND WITH PICTURES) at this url
www.reformation.org...
The Great Depression beginning in October 1929, caused the collapse of the world financial system. Millions of people throughout the world were thrown
out of work and faced the prospect of starvation.... This "Federal" Reserve Bank engineered financial collapse [Great Depression] gave Roosevelt the
opportunity to usurp power in the U.S....and Hitler used the same crisis to become Führer in Germany.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:27 PM by Man_Versus_AntiMan
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Yes….. this has been a total pet hate of mine for years and years!
You are absolutely correct - the Nazis were left wing – I think where the confusion lies is both in the inadequacy of the traditional left/right
spectrum and fascisms perceived opposite position to Communism.
In political science the left/right spectrum is a measurement of ECONOMIC policy, nothing else. By this (correct) definition 'Far-right' describes a
totally free market economy and 'Far-Left' describes total govt ownership and control.
Fascism could never be described as ‘free-market’, in fact it is a totally opposing economic ideology. Hence Fascism is just as left wing as
communism.
So why does everyone call the Nazis and Neo-nazis ‘Far-Right’ extremists? Well this is why a one dimensional line is absolutely useless for
grading someones politics. As far as I can tell it only appears to be on the opposite end to communism because they hate each other so much.
Being racist, nationalistic and authoritarian is no where classed as 'right wing' in any qualitative sense. What makes the Nazis ‘Far-Right’ at
all? Well… nothing.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:33 PM by Zepherian
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Any fascist movement needs a free market, a right wing sociopolitical environment, to generate itself in. Only when the monopolies are consolidated
will they take over government and magically flip to left wing national socialist policies. So I guess you could say they are a left wing totalitarian
ideology born out of right wing market environments.
At the extremes left and right touch each other.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 06:40 PM by Man_Versus_AntiMan
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reply to post by Zepherian
And so the one dimensional line makes a nice circle  Thats true i suppose, it is only really the fusion between a puppet private industry and the
state which distinguishes fascism from communism.
I feel i should add im not sure i agree with the original posters motives for stating the Nazis are left wing, im only chipping in for the sake of
pedantry!
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 08:17 PM by badmedia
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You guys do realize and understand that the political chart goes in more directions than left and right correct?
The reason/way the 2 extreme sides eventually touch is not because of a left or right direction, it's because of an up and down direction. Up being
towards personal freedom, and down being an authoritarian type government.
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 08:47 PM by triplesod
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I don't think you quite know the difference between Socialism and National Socialism.
You also are apparently confused with Euthanasia and Eugenics! 
EDIT: After having read the replies in this thread I would just like to mention one thing. I apologise if this seems pedantic of me, I really don't
mean to be, I only mention it because I think it is important. Technically, the Nazi Party was not Fascist.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by triplesod]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 09:03 PM by Man_Versus_AntiMan
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Yeah there are a few political grids which make more sense, but they are not generally accepted are they.
Even so if you put a realised form of Fascism into them they would be 'far-left/high-up’ on the scale, just as communism would be (Assuming
authoritarianism was upward that is).
To distinguish them youd probably need a third axis denoting nationalism, as that is really the only discernable difference imo.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by Man_Versus_AntiMan]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 11:31 PM by shermanium
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interesting book on the subject, he brings up both sides:
www.peikoff.com...
Each of the philosophic principles essential to the rise of Nazism in Germany has a counterpart in present-day America.
Is the freest country on earth moving toward totalitarian dictatorship? What were the factors that enabled the Nazis to seize power in pre-war
Germany? Do those same conditions exist in America today?
These are the questions raised — and answered, with frightening clarity — by Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's intellectual heir, in his powerful book
The Ominous Parallels.
"We are drifting to the future, not moving purposefully," Peikoff warns. "But we are drifting as Germany moved, in the same direction, for the same
kind of reason."
Some of the "ominous parallels" between pre-Hitler Germany and the United States that Peikoff identifies are:
* Liberals who demand public control over the use and disposal of private property — social security, more taxes, more government control over
the energy industry, medicine, broadcasting, etc.
* Conservatives who demand government control over our intellectual and moral life — prayer in the schools, literary censorship, government
intervention in the teaching of biology, the anti-abortion movement, etc.
* Political parties devoid of principles or direction and moved at random by pressure groups, each demanding still more controls.
* A "progressive," anti-intellectual educational system that, from kindergarten to graduate school, creates students who can't read or write
— students brainwashed into the feeling that their minds are helpless and they must adapt to "society," that there is no absolute truth and that
morality is whatever society says it is.
* A student radical movement (from the 1960's through the violent anti-nukers and ecology fanatics of today) who are, Peikoff maintains, the
"pre-Hitler youth movement resurrected." The radicals are nature worshippers who attack the middle class, science, technology, and business.
* The rise of defiant old-world racial hatreds disguised as "ethnic-identity" movements and "affirmative action."
* A pervasive atmosphere of decadence, moral bankruptcy, and nihilist art accompanied by the rise of escapist mystic cults of every kind —
astrology, "alternative medicine," Orientalists, extrasensory perception, etc.
In an introduction to Peikoff's book, Ayn Rand describes The Ominous Parallels as, "the first book by an Objectivist philosopher other than myself"
and goes on to say that, "If you do not wish to be a victim of today's philosophical bankruptcy, I recommend The Ominous Parallels as protection and
ammunition. It will protect you from supporting, unwittingly, the ideas that are destroying you and the world."
[edit on 22-9-2008 by shermanium]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 11:34 PM by shermanium
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by the way, there are uncited stories that pre nazi wiemar germany allowed same-sex marrage as well as abortion and euthanasia
[edit on 22-9-2008 by shermanium] "pre nazi"
[edit on 23-9-2008 by shermanium]
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 11:54 PM by skyshow
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reply to post by shermanium
Ummm (having just about spit out and projected orange chicken and fried rice out all over the desk), Homosexuals were made to wear pink triangles on
their sleeve the same as Jews were made to wear the star of David. They were thrown into prison camps and gassed just as the Jews were.
I've read some crazy things on here but this post I'm replying to as well as this thread opener, has to be about the most inaccurate ones of all!
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