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EFF Sues NSA, President Bush, and Vice President Cheney to Stop Illegal Surveillance

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posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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EFF Sues NSA, President Bush, and Vice President Cheney to Stop Illegal Surveillance


www.eff.org

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a lawsuit against the National Security Agency (NSA) and other government agencies today on behalf of AT&T customers to stop the illegal, unconstitutional, and ongoing dragnet surveillance of their communications and communications records. The five individual plaintiffs are also suing President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Cheney's chief of staff David Addington, former Attorney General and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and...
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
rawstory.com
www.eff.org
www.eff.org
www.eff.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Senate OKs immunity for telecoms




posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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Evidence in the case includes undisputed documents provided by former AT&T telecommunications technician Mark Klein showing AT&T has routed copies of Internet traffic to a secret room in San Francisco controlled by the NSA.


Another easy case for the government to get dismissed on "Executive Privilege?"

If we don't get behind organizations such as this, we are doomed to keep having the government shove itself up our rears and being forced to live with it.

Freedom of speech. So don't speak. Wouldn't that be the best for them?





www.eff.org
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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I was under the impression that you cannot "sue" a sitting president. In any case this will most likely get thrown out as such matters should not be the subject of a public court.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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WestPoint23,
Your correct. No sitting President can be sued in any court other than the Senate, and then only impeachment proceedings and treason. All other cases must be filed after they leave office. The government, as a whole, can be sued, but they have to "agree" to be sued. This suit will go nowhere. They have to sue in SCOTUS to prove the "LAW" is unconstitutional, not the officers in the government!

Zindo



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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This is absolutely great news. And hopefully this goes all the way to the top and leads to the repeal of the USA PATRIOT ACT, and the new FISA changes(and possibly FISA itself).



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
I was under the impression that you cannot "sue" a sitting president. In any case this will most likely get thrown out as such matters should not be the subject of a public court.


That is a point. However, to clarify this I just called the EFF and spoke to Eva Galperin, who gave me a rundown of this suit, and what they are essentially seeking. And you betta listen dammit, cause that just cost me money (LD call).


I asked her about the suing a sitting president, and she said the law is that you can sue all you want to, but you just can't seek civil damages against a sitting President. Then I asked her well how will that reconcile with the fact that Bush will be out of office in January, and she said that the suit may be ammended to include Bush once he's out of office. And she said their suit does not seek civil damages against Bush. She also said that the other plaintiffs in the case are not seeking civil damages against him either.

She said that the EFF is essentially seeking two main components with this lawsuit:

That
1) A declaration be made that the wiretapping is illegal

and

2) An injunction be issued to stop any further wiretapping of US citizens immediately.

It's important to note that the other plaintiffs in the case are AT&T customers, and it is they who are seeking damages in the class action suit. One I should undoubtedly join seeing as AT&T is both my phone and internet provider.

This FAQ link at EFF should explain most everything if you would like to know more:

www.eff.org...



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I did listen, and great proactive action you took there to clarify the matter. I'm with Verizon, so I reserve my right to not join in support.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 



The largest telecoms company in the US, Verizon Communications Inc, has been hit with a class action lawsuit after a lawyer alleged that it has illegally collaborated with a wiretapping operation conducted by one of the most secretive intelligence agencies in the US.
Oh yeah?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by wytworm
 


Dear me, they know what color socks I bought my brother last christmas. I'm devastated.

In all seriousness however considering these actions started after 9/11 it's understandable (at least to me), even if questionable.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by wytworm
 


Hey, can't you see that my good buddy westpoint there is trying to trash me as usual? Why are you making life difficult on him?


That's just funny as crap. I suppose it's just a matter of time before they all get sued, and rightly so.

You know, this isn't about people just rolling over and letting the government have their way with them- just because they aren't doing anything wrong. This is about principles. Ones that were delineated long ago, and for very good reasons. Reasons like keeping the government from getting too powerful over the people.

Wiretapping the average American citizen not only violates the Constitution, it should be something the average American citizen should be able to do with their own government for accountability. They need to write that into the new government the state of Arizona is proposing should martial law come into effect.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Hey, can't you see that my good buddy westpoint there is trying to trash me as usual?


That's a little harsh. While I might not take this issue with the same alarming view as you it does not mean I'd "trash" anyone over it.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
While I might not take this issue with the same alarming view as you it does not mean I'd "trash" anyone over it.


Yeah, I suppose maybe I'm being the knee-jerking me that some accuse me of.

I mean after all

There's nothing alarming about not being able to count on my phone conversations being private anymore.

[/sarcasm]

You want all your conversations on your phone and internet being sifted through an array of user defined (no, no - government defined) software?

And then this is the response from AT&T?


"Unfortunately, under current circumstances, we are unable to respond with specificity to your inquiries," wrote AT&T in a statement to the House Committee. "That is because, on many issues that appear to be of central concern to you, responsive information, if any, is within the control of the executive branch... Moreover, the United States, through sworn declaration from the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), has formally invoked the state secrets privilege to prevent AT&T from either confirming or denying facts about alleged intelligence operations and activities that are central to your inquiries."

Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) has decided that trying to get information about the program from the telecoms is indeed an exercise in futility, and will turn his attention towards the Bush administration. "After reviewing the thoughtful responses of the phone companies to our inquiries about the Administration's NSA program, I am now convinced that the Administration—as the sponsor of this program and the party preventing the companies from defending themselves—is the entity best able to resolve the many outstanding issues," said Dingell. "I look forward to meeting with representatives of the Administration in short order, and I am hopeful that they will be forthcoming with the information Congress needs to properly evaluate this program."


So again, the states secret privilege invoked simply to aid the administration in loop holing obvious laws against this kind of behavior.

Naw, nothing alarming. Not until maybe one day when you run for President WestPoint, and some intelligence report in the database wipes you and your campaign out over wiretapped information on you. Might be kind of alarming then, eh?

[edit on 18-9-2008 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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I dont know about the rest of you, but dont you guys think that a lawsuit over what is already an illegal act is pretty pointless? What possible result can be had from a lawsuit against the Bush Criminal Network for an action that is plainly already unconstitutiional?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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well somone is constantly intercepting my communications and i am doing nothing suspicious!.

all im doing is fighting the good ol grays with nothing but words,an what do i get?, a communications lockdown!!!.

someone is obviously protecting them,or perhaps maybe thier protecting themselves!!!!



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by spookjr
 


None until he is out of office and most likely none thereafter either.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I've said many illegal things over mass means of communication, and expressed pretty controversial views without any fear and repercussions. You think the government has the time and resources to care about what our daily conversation piece is? They've got bigger fish to fry. I've heard others tells me that my freedom have been infringed upon. Yet I can say with complete conviction that I have not felt any restriction upon my basic rights (not desires) as an American.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
I've said many illegal things over mass means of communication, and expressed pretty controversial views without any fear and repercussions.


Well, great. So now that you've admitted it in writing, and they have it on record, if they need to for ANY reason, they can nail you. All over something that was illegal to begin with.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Much like Obama is being nailed for admitting he tried Cannabis? Some things are just water under the bridge and nothing to get alarmed over.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I was under the impression that you cannot "sue" a sitting president. In any case this will most likely get thrown out as such matters should not be the subject of a public court.


That is a point. However, to clarify this I just called the EFF and spoke to Eva Galperin, who gave me a rundown of this suit, and what they are essentially seeking. And you betta listen dammit, cause that just cost me money (LD call).




I am honored, you paid to inform us!? Lol


As for this lawsuit, it should be noted that the officials they are seeking as Defendants in this suit will most likely be immune as well. There is a certain amount of protection for Governmental Employees who are carrying out their duties, and this often times even extends as far down as local governments (ie, Local Law Enforcement).

I understand why American Citizens are concerned with their Privacy, and yes, I do believe it must be kept in check so as to prevent lines from being crossed. However, the NSA "Dragnet" Operations are not very concerning at all. There are over 300 Million Citizens of the United States of America. There are 365 Days of the Year. There are multiple phones in many households, at least one phone-line in almost every last home, and countless numbers of cell phones amongst the populace. Remember too, this is NOT counting the number of International Telephones and International Calls. Do you seriously believe that a few thousand employees sit around all day, everyday listening to all of these conversations? The same goes for the E-mails.

The use a Computer system which scans these Intercepts for any "Matching" parameters, and even then these Intercepts are further scanned and filed down to a Minimum number of the Highest Quality "Hits". It is much in the same fashion that the Large Hadron Collider collects and examines it's Collision Results. EVEN if the NSA wanted to store EVERY last Phone Call and E-mail Intercept, they would NOT have the storage capacity to do so.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
EVEN if the NSA wanted to store EVERY last Phone Call and E-mail Intercept, they would NOT have the storage capacity to do so.


That's probably a minor reason imo why them and a whole host of large American telecom carriers hire any number of Israeli firms to do it for them.




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