Obama Policy: Healthcare

Originally posted by Seaman_Richie
Why can't we copy our brothers to the north or even the redcoats across the pond...their system works....

If their system worked, waits for seeing a doctor and receiving treatment wouldn't be measured in months and people from Canada wouldn't come down here to get healthcare.

What you end up with is crappy healthcare everywhere instead of a spectrum from lousy to great.

Originally posted by avingard
What you end up with is crappy healthcare everywhere instead of a spectrum from lousy to great.

Better to have some health care then one at all. The Canadians in general as the average consumer appear to be well take care of.

If their was serious outrage at their system, then they would change it.

Peace

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Originally posted by avingard
What you end up with is crappy healthcare everywhere instead of a spectrum from lousy to great.

Better to have some health care then one at all. The Canadians in general as the average consumer appear to be well take care of.

If their was serious outrage at their system, then they would change it.

Peace

There is serious outrage, but the government is so convoluted and complicated that nothing is being done. That and it would require restructuring their entire system, not an easy change at all. Go to any canadian news site and look around, you'll find it is not at all an ideal solution.

reply to post by avingard


Were not even the the top ten in a free enterprise system brother.

A unified effort by the medical field on controlling costs, from drugs to procedures is whats needed.

I understand your comment on your system, but also understand that we have no system at all, for many of our people. Sad really.

The market doesn't always cover everything. It only covers it if there is a profit to be made.

Its those that look beyond profit, and burden, to see the greater good.
That in the long run, it is what is right, and good for all of us, and not only available to the select.


Peace

[edit on 30-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by John Nada

I'm sorry, but thsese systems DON'T work. Citizens of Canada frequently come to the US to get needed health care because of the protracted wait for care.
It can take up to a year to get a cardiac bypass in Canada and England. I can't speak for France.
I have worked with Canadian doctors that came to this country because it took to long to get anything done for their patients.
I agree that we need health care reform in this country, but Obama's plan is NOT what we need

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


I'm a USA insurance broker. This Summer, I set up a health insurance
policy for a family that moved here from Toronto, Canada. The wife
still has cancer because the waiting list for the few treatment centers is
so long that she could only get chemo every 6 weeks, even though
she's supposed to go every 2 weeks! Plus, the poor thing has no idea
if the chemotherapy was working at all, because their state medical system
"forgot" to schedule in a this testing with her treatment regime.

Her husband became so frightened for her life that he moved his business
to the USA so she could get good health insurance. In 3 months, Carrie
will be past the 6 month waiting period for the group health plan I set up
for them and she'll be able to get up to $7 million dollars of treatment
at any medical facility she chooses, at any time. Talk about a family that
is thankful to be in the USA!

Our system isn't perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to find very many
people leaving the USA and moving to a socialist country just to get their
health coverage. The reverse, however, happens often.

-CWM

reply to post by carewemust


I think the thing many people catch on to the quickest are the words FREE or CHEAP. They don't bother to consider or research for themselves what impact socialize medicine has had on other countries. They also fail to realize that even with a Healthcare for all, you will still have people with no insurance. I favor reform over OBama's plan. Reform to lower cost of premiums, prescriptions, and cost of treatment itself.

They always make estimates on how much it would cost to provide health care to the uninsured - If I could get health care for free, I would stop buying my insurance. I'm sure a significant number of people would do this. If they worked out a more comprehensive system we are talking about WAY more than 47 million people. I'm sorry but I really don't have the money for my insurance so if my neighbors get it free because they don't want to buy it, there is no reason for me to waste my money.

When they come up with these plans- which I have never seen any details of other than claims of what it would do- does anybody know how many people would actually qualify for the plans? I don't even know where to try to find that out.

I have an idea....

Why don't we just take half of the money we spend on "defense", and use it to DEFEND against illness and disease. That would probably help guarantee "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" better than a bunch of guns and bombs.

Just my take on it.....

Originally posted by Seaman_Richie
Why can't we copy our brothers to the north or even the redcoats across the pond...their system works....

here is what the shining example of socialized medicine looks like when reality is given weight:

Baroness Warnock Calls for Executing the Elderly

Socialized medicine takes a highly valuable and limited commodity — healthcare — and sets the cost to free.

Those with even a rudimentary understanding of economics should not be surprised that this has caused supply shortages. But British medical ethics expert Baroness Warnock has found a solution:

The veteran Government adviser said pensioners in mental decline are "wasting people's lives" because of the care they require and should be allowed to opt for euthanasia even if they are not in pain.

She insisted there was "nothing wrong" with people being helped to die for the sake of their loved ones or society.

The 84-year-old added that she hoped people will soon be "licensed to put others down" if they are unable to look after themselves.

Warnock is allegedly Britain's "leading moral philosopher."

She wants dementia sufferers to consider "ending their lives through euthanasia." Needless to say, dementia sufferers are not in a position to make decisions, any more than unborn babies are; others make the potentially lethal decisions for them. What this moral philosopher is talking about is having people put to death for having Alzheimer's disease.

Look for other expensive illnesses to follow. When progressives attained total control of Germany, they killed 6,000,000 Jews. The next time they consolidate that kind of power, they'll be going after anyone with costly and/or chronic diseases.

On the positive side, there will be free healthcare for all… who survive.

Baroness Warnock: Dementia sufferers may have a 'duty to die'


socialized medicine is a bad idea, we have many more people than the uk and canada, and their system is #e.

social meds here would make theirs look like utopian perfection, by comparison.

socialism in the united states is not altruism, it is strictly for totalitarian control of the population.

you may think its free, but the real price is more than anyone should have to pay.

Medical Bills in America are the number one cause of bankruptcy.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children

www.consumeraffairs.com...

That above statistic is merely one of many that are motivating change.

Peace

I agree that a completely socialized health system is fraught with problems.
There are some things that could be done, at a fraction of the cost.
First, how about low-cost, or free screening for cancers, heart problems, and basic lack of nutrition.
Prevention, or early detection not only saves lives, but is very cost effective.
For instance, if people don't have health care, why not allow, say, one mammogram every five years for women over 40, and one every two years over 50?
What about a simple PSA blood test to detect potential Prostate Cancer for men over 50 every year?
How about an EKG once every 5 years for people over a certain age?
What about a Basic Metabolic Panel blood test every year for each citizen?
In addition, most retailers now have a $4/$10 generic drug for most basic problems, such as High Cholesterol, bacterial infections, high blood pressure, etc.

The cost of these could reduce serious illnesses drastically in this country.

Originally posted by Roper
Where does it say in the Constitution of the United States of America that the people get FREE health care?

The Poor people already have Federal and State run health care. Go the the welfare office and sign up.

Go into any hospital , you can not be refused treatment. That's free ain't it?

Roper

No it is not. I had to file bankruptcy on half a million because i came down with Crohn's with no insurance 2 surgery and half a year in the hospital shot my credit straight to hell (can i say that?) There was no way I could have payed this off with what I was making what is even worse there was trying to garnish 75% of my paycheck which would have put me homeless in no time. So free? oh..ho..ho..ho NO!!!!!

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Aleksander]

Originally posted by AboveTopSecret.com
2008 Presidential Candidate Platform Discussion

"I...believe that every American has the right to affordable health care. I believe that the millions of Americans who can't take their children to a doctor when they get sick have that right...We now face an opportunity - and an obligation - to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday's health care debates. It's time to bring together businesses, the medical community, and members of both parties around a comprehensive solution to this crisis, and it's time to let the drug and insurance industries know that while they'll get a seat at the table, they don't get to buy every chair." -Barack Obama, Speech in Iowa City, IA, 5/27/07

www.barackobama.com...


Presented for critical discussion and analysis by ATS members under the spirit of the new guidelines announced in This Thread.

Thats more like it. I think free health care to the sick is just a basic human right.

reply to post by Mister E




you said

I think free health care to the sick is just a basic human right

Obama said per your source

" I...believe that every American has the right to affordable health care "


seems to be difference between free and affordable. And what may be affordable to one may not be affordable to another. In addition the taxpayers will be left paying the bill for yet another one of government's inept programs.

reply to post by jam321

In addition the taxpayers will be left paying the bill for yet another one of government's inept programs.

Great point, friend. The key word in your great post is "inept". That is the standard of operation for most government programs.
Just look at how well (not!) their bailout program is working. Dow down over 500 more points today. My 403B balance is quickly heading to $0.