Sarah Palin stance on abortion: Rape isn't an excuse.

Originally posted by starwarp2000
A very hard question!
Does one accept the fact that the child is unwanted and maybe put it up for adoption, or does one take a rape = evil stance and terminate the pregnancy?
Very hard!
Each individual must decide for themselves.
Is the sanctity of life an overriding factor in all things or is life weighed and measured by convenience?
I would stand with Sarah Palin on this one.
There are many other views.
This is mine.

if the abortion is done early enough it is not a child..it is a few cells and being so the life and wellbeing of the mother is the first thing to think about..a 12 year old raped girls wellbeing or the views of a few cells?...whats more important?

Everyone woman should be able to decide what is right in regards to abortion and make their own decision. For anyone to enforce their own subjective view of morality on someone else is wrong.

The pro-life position is incredibly dangerous. A fetus is not a child. A bunch of cells in early development is not a person. If that position was accepted as law, a woman could be charged for murder, attempted murder, manslaughter for doing things that might endanger the fetus during pregnancy. We'd have a whole new group of woman prisoners charged with this crime. A fetus is nothing more that a potential human, not a real human with any rights. A fetus can only cross the fetus/human threshold after birth when it is an independant being. Where else can one possibly draw the line? Before that, even a sperm cell or egg are potential humans. It reminds of Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" where the nuns are singing "every sperm is sacred"...


Ok, you may say, once the egg is fertilized, then it is human. But what percentage of fertilized eggs actually survives? If you say it's human at that point then legally the pro-lifers may want to do everything medically possible to ensure that that fetus survives. Women would have to immediately be put in hospitals and operated on if necessary to ensure the survival of the fertilized egg.

With all of that said, I don't like the idea of abortions in a lot of cases and I'd hope that if a woman waits more than 3 months after getting pregnant that they'd decide to have the child and give it up for adoption. BUT it is not for me to say what any woman should do with their body. It is up to every woman to decide for themselves what is right or wrong for them.

Who cares what her "personal" opinion on abortion is... that is her opinion as an individual. I want to know what she thinks the Federal Govt roll is in deciding about abortion? Constitutionally the Federal Govt has NO roll in saying it should be legal or illegal. It should be up to the individual states. Myself, I believe that in cases of "Proven" sexual assual (Rape) that a woman should have the choice... and also in life threatening situations. Other than that... the woman had the choice to use birth control or keep her legs closed to begin with.. and should not be able to just throw away a life because of inconvenience. Just my 2 cents.

Women should have the right to abortion in the case of rape or incest, period. How dare anybody force their own values onto somebody else, especially when it comes to influencing religion into the law system, something the founding fathers wrote against in the constitution, the first amendment.

I find it real funny that the only people that seem to be outright against abortion in all cases are those who have never had to experience the horrors of rape, its real sad of such ignorance and blatant hypocrisy coming from those against abortion in all cases. Its ironic they preach freedom (yet fail to mention the little conditions of their "freedom").

I’m a Christian, not a perfect one but nevertheless I am one, I believe God exists, I believe there’s a plan for everybody, what I don’t believe in is forcing my own religious, personal values onto somebody else. I don’t believe it is right to tell the young women of our generation that "if you get raped, you have no rights as to how to deal with it". God certainly has a plan for us all, but I’m sure he doesn’t intend any women to suffer the horrors of rape, that is something evil itself does. How those individuals choose to deal with it is their business and I am sure their situation will be understood universally.

If you want to preach freedom, preach it on all levels, not just one.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
FF, would there not be a lot of resentment from the mother, raising the child of her rapist? I know what you mean, but wouldn't raising the child cause more psychological grief? Because all you'd see would be a child that never should have been brought into the world and it'd be a lot worse if the child looked like the rapist.

not only that but the rapist then has the right to see the child.
And the child will know that they are the result of a rape, it would be hard to keep quiet i think

I don't believe in abortion myself, but it shouldn't be the government's place to decide whether a woman can have an abortion or not in the first trimester. By the same token though, I don't believe it should be the government's responsibility to pay for said abortions. If you don't want them to regulate the practice, you shouldn't expect them to fund them either in my opinion. You can't have your cake, and eat it too!

It's a matter of personal choice and personal belief - period. The bottom line is no one be forced to do anything in this situation.
There are no laws/ potential laws on the books I know of that would FORCE ANYONE to have an abortion.
Neither should anyone be forced to not have one within the accepted timeframe.

If you don't like it, do your best to educate those you come into contact with on your thoughts and beliefs. If people don't agree with you, grow up and learn to accept other views that aren't directly effecting your life and well-being. Your beliefs are just that – yours, and not anyone else’s.

edit: great point Lloyd !


[edit on 10-9-2008 by maudeeb]

Let women decide what they want to do with their own bodies and lives, get the government and politics out of the womb and bedroom.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
A lot of pro-life people feel that the child should NEVER be murdered.

If a woman has been the victim of rape, then why force her to then turn around and murder her own child? That puts a double burden on her.

FF, I'll have to differ here. The crux of the issue is, at what stage is it called 'murder'? Is it murder of a child when the foetus is 1 day old? One week? One month? Six months? The fetal stage of prenatal development starts at the beginning of the 11th week in gestational age (the 9th week after fertilization). So at what stage can it be called murder?
The spirit enters the body probably just before or during birth, not during the gestational stage.

So can abortion be called 'murder' in the absence of a spirit or a soul? Plants don't have a spirit, so when you pluck a daisy, is it tantamount to murder? So all this talk of abortion per se as murder, is rubbish! Especially if it is done before the 11th week! So can one issue a blanket ban on abortion when we are unaware at what stage it can be called 'murder'?

With all the people saying that if a raped girl getting pregnant as a result of the rape shouldn't be allowed to abort the baby, what if the girl being raped is only a child herself?
What if she's 8 or 9 years old and is raped and gets pregnant. Would those of you saying they shouldn't be allowed to abort no matter what still say that and make this child go through the agony of childbirth?

And what about the baby? When it's older and wants to find out about it's father? How would you feel knowing that you're only alive because your dad raped some stranger?

Edit to say, for those out there who don't think it is possible for such a young girl to get pregnant, do a search for preteen pregnancy,
The youngest mother ever on record is Lina Medina from Peru. She was only five when she gave birth to a boy in May 1939. It was reported that she had her first period when she was only eight months old.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by doogle]

If I was pregnant with a child of rape, and wasn't allowed to abort the baby, I would probably die trying to cut it out myself.

Sounds harsh but it's true. Oh and I agree with the above post ^

Like so many things the right is adamant on... their ideals apply only to other people... it would an excuse if it happened to her or anyone in her family.

reply to post by mikesingh


How do you know that the 'spirit' enters the body during or after birth?
Is this written in some medical journal I have never heard of????

Originally posted by thecandyman
Who cares what her "personal" opinion on abortion is... that is her opinion as an individual. I want to know what she thinks the Federal Govt roll is in deciding about abortion? Constitutionally the Federal Govt has NO roll in saying it should be legal or illegal. It should be up to the individual states. Myself, I believe that in cases of "Proven" sexual assual (Rape) that a woman should have the choice... and also in life threatening situations. Other than that... the woman had the choice to use birth control or keep her legs closed to begin with.. and should not be able to just throw away a life because of inconvenience. Just my 2 cents.

Right. This is what I have been hinting at all along. It doesn't really matter what her opinion is because it is her opinion. If people share it and praise her for it then so be it. My concern is how she will affect the 'governments' roll in the whole issue.

People conveniently forget - that byproduct of a rape, you know that baby you all are ranting about?

It grows up!

Which one of you pro-lifers would want to be a child of rape?
Knowing your father brutally raped your mother and scarred her for life!!!?

Even worse, which one of you out there would want to be the walking talking evidence of incest?

A woman who’s been raped?
You take away her choice?
God Help her!
First she’s been raped once by a perpetrator and the second time by the government!
The rapist takes her innocence, and the Government rapes her of her choice!

And you’re wrong if you don't think she’s dig that lump of evil flesh (as she would see it) out of her body with a coat hanger if she was given no choice!

Me? It's a womans choice. Period.

And since Palin is a Christian, I'd love to ask her this question:

"The Greatest GIFT God Ever Gave Man is FREE WILL! Sarah Palin, who in the Hell do you think YOU ARE to try and take that GIFT away"???




...be right back have to go clean something that stinks off my shoe...


[edit on 11-9-2008 by silo13]

Originally posted by starwarp2000
A very hard question!
Does one accept the fact that the child is unwanted and maybe put it up for adoption, or does one take a rape = evil stance and terminate the pregnancy?
Very hard!
Each individual must decide for themselves.
Is the sanctity of life an overriding factor in all things or is life weighed and measured by convenience?
I would stand with Sarah Palin on this one.
There are many other views.
This is mine.

See text bolded by me... You can't have it both ways. You can be pro-choice, or you can be pro-Palin, but you can't say individuals must decide for themselves, and at the same time stand with Palin, who would like to make that decision for all women.

Originally posted by dariousg
reply to post by galatea

 

Exactly, it's when government allows religion to intermingle that we get more control. I'm sorry, like I said, I would NEVER support the choice of someone I know to have an abortion but I would never hold it against them in the case of a rape.

Government MUST keep church and state separate. Religion has forced so many restrictions on people (not saying it's all bad at all so don't flame me on the point of going to hell and so on). Religion is a control system and government is SUPPOSED to be a 'for the people' system.

It is not a religious question, nor a matter of religious belief. The fetus is a human being with potential, (not a potential human being). The fetus exists, has being therefore "is". The recent verbal gymnastics from Biden, Pelosi and the guy who isn't paid enough to give an opinion WERE co-mingling religion and politics in a way that is inappropriate. Pelosi and Biden have no right, as politicians speaking regarding policy, to stray down the road of questions concerning the soul etc. Think objectively and scientifically: the fetus has the genetic fingerprint of our species and has begun the fundamental processes of life it "is" and therefore is a human being. The role of Government is to protect the human beings resident in its jurisdiction, therefore abortion, like homicide, property violations etc are their concern. Government is indeed suppossed to be "for the people", its role is not to decide who "people" are.

It is not a religious question, nor a matter of religious belief. The fetus is a human being with potential, (not a potential human being). The fetus exists, has being therefore "is". The recent verbal gymnastics from Biden, Pelosi and the guy who isn't paid enough to give an opinion WERE co-mingling religion and politics in a way that is inappropriate. Pelosi and Biden have no right, as politicians speaking regarding policy, to stray down the road of questions concerning the soul etc. Think objectively and scientifically: the fetus has the genetic fingerprint of our species and has begun the fundamental processes of life it "is" and therefore is a human being. The role of Government is to protect the human beings resident in its jurisdiction, therefore abortion, like homicide, property violations etc are their concern. Government is indeed suppossed to be "for the people", its role is not to decide who "people" are.


your right It really doesn't matter what any dogma says what about abortion - it's a matter of the value of human life. It is definitely at the top of difficult decisions any mother should make- Palin's Rape stance, in choosing "life" isn't hard to understand. Let's look at the potential horrific outcomes if the child is born.
1.) Depending on if it was incest than there could be mental/physical abnormalities.
2.) Psychological stability for the mother - (if she raised the child)
3.)Potential transfer of disease if unknown rapist.
4.)Potential "abnormal" childhood... the list goes on.

The fix for these = abortion
or overcome any of the outcomes that which many families deal with today, without having a mother raped.
in the end a child is born, that can love, experience, and maybe take appreciation that they are alive.


[edit on 21-10-2008 by juveous]

How many of you out there agree 100 percent on your abortion stance? Everyone has a different perception on what is right and was is wrong..that includes Sarah Palin.

Yeah, is she far to the right/left..whatever....yeah...so are other people. Some are in the middle...some are middle/right and middle/left. Some are i dunno maybe somewhere left with just a touch of right.

Arguments about abortion always goes to one place....NO WHERE. It just brings out anger in people.

People are either Killing babies or violating a womans body. It's against God's will, etc.

It's just another issue to divide us and to keep us from seeing the big picture in the world.

I worry about my family...and whatever happens in my family would be my business unless it outright affected someone else.

People need to stop thinking they can save the world on this issue. It's not going to happen...in the meanwhile...their are Millions of people struggling to find something to eat...and we bicker about this.