Sarah Palin stance on abortion: Rape isn't an excuse.

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posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
A lot of pro-life people feel that the child should NEVER be murdered.

If a woman has been the victim of rape, then why force her to then turn around and murder her own child? That puts a double burden on her.

She's already dealing with being raped.
Why force her to deal with murdering her child too?


I take it that you're not a woman and haven't ever been raped? Or raped by a family member?

I haven't, but I've known women who have. The abortion is not as difficult to deal with as is having the baby. Often the mother is abandoned economically and emotinally... and then there's the issue of what happens if a new man comes into her life.

Many aren't suportive of a child that isn't theirs, and often the mother will neglect it further.

You might want to read a little more on women's views of rape and pregnancy before evaulating how stressful the options are. Every single one of them is usually horrible for her to contemplate -- but the difference between the trauman of an abortion and an unwanted child of a trauma that leaves you with PTSD is considerable.




posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I understand your situation Marg and, being and objective person, knew that English was most likely your second language.

You should NOT have to apologize even though I can see you are a peaceful person simply trying to keep the peace.

Your intent was made clear in the beginning of your statement and I was simply pointing out a frustrating fact about how people like to nit pick others on statements or mistypes when their intent is obvious. It does NOTHING for the flow of the debate.

So you should NOT have had to apologize even though I respect that you did.

This is a very sensitive subject and one I feel strongly about. That's because there are much deeper implications behind choosing who will represent this country in the White House. Just so you know, I used to be completely against anyone making a choice on this subject. However, as time, logic, education and life has taken place, I began to realize that it is NOT up to me or my government to control the actions of the people as long as they didn't break the common laws of this country.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by MacDonagh
FF, would there not be a lot of resentment from the mother, raising the child of her rapist?

I can't speak for all mothers. However ..
you speak of 'the child of the rapist'.
I speak of 'the child of the innocent mother'.

Every situation is different. AND adoption is a better option for the child then a painful death - IMHO. Govenor Palin agrees with that opinion. She's entitled to believe anything she wishes. It's not like her beliefs will touch Roe v Wade. Her beliefs won't change the law of the land.


Originally posted by galatea
Each and every woman in this United States of America should have the right to choose what they want for their bodies. .

Except in the case of rape, the woman DOES choose what she wants to do with her body. When she picks having unprotected sex, then she has chosen.

When a woman commits abortion she isn't aborting herself and she isnt' painfully stopping her own heart from beating. She does that to another human beings body - her child.


Originally posted by marg6043
English not been my first language doesn't make it any easier.

Marg ... I know English isn't your primary language, but from what I see on these boards you do a really good job expressing yourself.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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I believe an abortion should be granted in the case of rape, but not just because you claim you were raped like in the case of Roe vs Wade. There should be legal documentation provided to substantiate the claim such as a police report.

If you don't put such checks and balances in place, abortions will become just another form of birth control like in Russia. Their abortion rate is astronomical, but we're catching up with them.

Abortion facts



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
I take it that you're not a woman and haven't ever been raped?

yes I'm a woman. No I haven't been raped.


You might want to read a little more on women's views of rape ...

It was required reading for my Psychology degree.

My point is this (I'll try to rephrase) ... Everyone refers to the child as 'the child of the rapist'. However, it is also the child of the victim. It is well documented that high numbers of women who have had abortions go on to regret them, to have nightmares about it, to have mental and physical problems because of them ... etc.

Govenor Palin has the opinion that the child shouldn't be punished with a painful death just because of the action of the father.

ADOPTION is the better option for both the child and the mother.

And again - she can have her views - it won't change Roe v Wade.
That can't ever be rolled back. IMHO



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Except in the case of rape, the woman DOES choose what she wants to do with her body. When she picks having unprotected sex, then she has chosen.

When a woman commits abortion she isn't aborting herself and she isnt' painfully stopping her own heart from beating. She does that to another human beings body - her child.


As you stated 'except in the case of rape' thus removing the rest of your statement from the topic of this discussion. You see the difference right? It still should come down to choice. The girl that has unprotected sex has made a choice. In my opinion, the girl should carry this child to birth and then make the best decision possible afterwards. Well, that's not what this topic is about. It's about a 'rape' victim and someone else TELLING them that they need to keep this child. As Byrd pointed out, rape doesn't always happen between strangers. Many more times it happens between family members. Not only does the family get destroyed by the rape but then, if a mother is forced to carry that child to term, the family is faced with many more issues not to mention the girl/woman that has to raise the child.

Health issues, psychological issues, financial issues, and on and on and on.

Who are WE to say that a girl/woman should be forced to go through that?



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Thanks flyer, you know that in this boards you have always my support even if we disagree on the issue.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
44soulslayer - it's not 'moronic' to have 'the child of a rapist'. What is 'moronic' is to force someone to kill their own child and to have to deal with all the mental anguish that comes with doing that. That child is the child of the victim as well.


I believe it is moronic. But equally Im not saying that the victim should be forced to have an abortion.

There ought to be free will both ways.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by dariousg
As you stated 'except in the case of rape' thus removing the rest of your statement from the topic of this discussion. You see the difference right?

That's why I said it that way.

And no, my statement is not 'removed from the discussion' because I was answering the suggestion that a woman has a right to do what she wants with her own body. I said that except in rape - she already has made a choice. In the case of rape - she still isn't aborting herself but is instead aborting another human being and taking away THEIR choice to live. She isn't exercising a choice about her own body with abortion because she isn't aborting her own body.

See?


It's about a 'rape' victim and someone else TELLING them that they need to keep this child. ... Who are WE to say that a girl/woman should be forced to go through that?

I don't think Govenor Palin is calling on anyone to be forced to. Last I read, she said that rape wasn't an excuse for killing the child because (paraphrase) the child is innocent and there are better options (physically and emotionally) for both the child and the mother.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I love how the 'pro lifers' are against abortions, but in favor of the death penalty. Thats not pro life to me.


When it comes to abortion. The key word everyone has used is CHOICE. Women have the choice to do what they feel is best for them.

It isn't a cut and dry killing of a human. For every Dr. who says its killing a human, I can show you one that says the unborn fetus doesnt even have pain receptors for the first 8 weeks.

The point is, people will argue on when life begins. No one honestly, in the pro choice world, looks at it as killing. They look at it as termination before life. If you want to argue that life begins at conception, you can, but then the argument will go nowhere.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Better options physically? I think not. Abortion is safer than giving birth. So Gov. Palin would be wrong.

abortion myths



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by bknapple32

The point is, people will argue on when life begins. No one honestly, in the pro choice world, looks at it as killing. They look at it as termination before life. If you want to argue that life begins at conception, you can, but then the argument will go nowhere.



I know this is a tough issue, but your post raises a serious question in terms of the logic you describe as "pro choice."

If a person honestly doesn't know when life begins, then how does one know you're NOT killing a living baby when one has an abortion? When do YOU think human life begins?



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree. But realize this, we aren't missing each other's points by much. Usually it is the last inch that is the biggest gap between two opinions anyways.

It still simpy comes down to the choice of the woman involved. I may not agree with their choice (as I said, if they choose to abort) but I have ZERO right to tell them they are right or wrong or to tell them what they can and cannot do.

Sure, they are robbing that child of life. There are lives robbed every day in nature. I know, you can say that abortion is not a natural occurance but it comes down to evolution. It's sick to say but we have evolved to a point to where we can have a virtually safe operation to remove an unwanted pregnancy.

There are animals in nature that can abort naturally to avoid unwanted situations.

Okay, that may be stretching the discussion a bit. I'm simply trying to say that it still comes down to the person involved. Sure, you can talk about the fetus' rights all day long but until we come up with the next evolutionary or scientific step where they can voice their concerns we will hear from them.

I know you are pushing the point that Palin won't be making any changes to laws but you miss the overriding point. She will be in virtually one of the most prominent political positions. She will have a say in breaking ties in congress and will be a MAJOR voice on this subject. Thus, she will influence LAWS to fit to her beliefs.

This is the danger. It still comes down to the problem of government telling people what they can and cannot do and we must avoid that as much as possible. It's already getting out of hand on other issues.

Peace to you and know that I understand WHY you are saying what you are saying. We are just 'that far' apart.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by bknapple32
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I love how the 'pro lifers' are against abortions, but in favor of the death penalty. Thats not pro life to me.


Oh, I almost forgot to address this comment.

Yes, being against abortion and pro death penalty is totally consistent because both positions are placing a value on INNOCENT lives. Somebody judged by a jury of his peers to have brutally murdered another human has taken away innocent life. The death penalty is just that -a PENALTY. It's a price one pays for a crime against society, and for taking an innocent life.

Same thought process applies to the abortion issue. Pro-life advocates believe a baby's innocent life must be protected.


Now, what I would like to hear your explanation for is this:

Why is it that somebody who's killed another human and who has committed a crime against society should have their life valued more than the innocent life of an unborn child?



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
maybe

if the mother doesnt want the child she should give it up for adoption.



Of course giving up a child up for adoption is not traumatic in the slightest!
. A victim of rape should not be put through such anguish.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Lebowski achiever
 


That is one of the problem that people seems not to understand, a rape victim of a violent assault is too traumatized to even be put in the position to understand why she is pregnant after such a vile act.

This are those victims that are in a hospital bed due to their injuries, rape comes in many forms but is the violent ones that I have a problem with and people seems no to understand that part of it.

I believe that in some hospitals is standard for a women in violent rape situations to have access to a vaginal wash and the day after pill.

But even that is becoming a problem with anti abortion advocates.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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Rape is no reason to kill a baby. Imagine the baby is born, and grows up to bring love to the family. There can be no better result from a tragedy, a new family member to love and care for. To kill that child would be an abhorable crime.

Would you kill a puppy left in a basket on your doorstep? Of course not. Same with a child, the mother did not ask for it or plan it, but the kindest most compassionate thing they can do is make sure the child has a loving home.

Aborting a baby of rape is a kneejerk reaction to a traumatic and horrifying act of violence. The only cure to violence is love. Violence begets violence.

What better example of love could a mother giver her child...you were not planned, but you are my family and I decide to love you unconditionally. the crimes of the father can be forgotten and forgiven.

[edit on 9/9/2008 by Missing Blue Sky]



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by dariousg
 


We have Zero right to tell them their choice is right or wrong?!!!!!

I hate murdering people with baseball bats, but I think you should make that choice for yourself, and if you want to murder people with baseball bats so be it.


I hate running over schoolchildren with school buses, but if you think it is a good choice for you go for it!!

I hate killing babies in the safety of their mothers womb...but hey, go ahead if you are that selfish and cold hearted. Stop your baby's heart and rip it out of your body, throw it away and forget about it.

God help us all, what kind of world is it that does not protect unborn babies, the most vulnerable of all people ? Abortion and infanticide have been a CRIME in civilized society for thousands of years up until modern times....It is so basic, Your life started at the moment of conception. After that moment it is on a journey to death....and no one has a right to prematurely end that life ...ever.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by galatea
Each and every woman in this United States of America should have the right to choose what they want for their bodies.


I would agree, except one problem, once a baby, a living life comes into your body, it is not ONLY your body anymore, sorry to say that, but it's the truth, there is somebody else inside of you, thats a responsibility. If I was a woman, abortion would never come to my mind. I can't do whatever I want to my body anymore.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Yes I agree, it is VERY stressful for the woman, and well every scenario is hell.

But what can I say? Life can be very hard. But it simply still does not make abortion right.

I believe they should at least put the time limit to abortion down, the limit at 24 weeks is too much I think, the baby is already moving, sucking it's thumb etc.

There's also an article I read that it's possible at 24 weeks babies can feel the most painful pain when abortion happens, the question is, is it really concious or not? Shouldn't scientists find out more before doing these things?



[edit on 9-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]





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