S.C. Sheriff's Department Armored Vehicle with Belt-Fed Machine Gun

I guess I'm wondering where in South Carolina is a war zone? When was the last time Liveleak or youtube had videos of any bank robbers shooting RPG's?

Okay, lets get something strait about the title of this post.

Their is no other type of machine gun other than belt fed!. That is one of the characteristics that make it a machine gun instead of an an automatic rifle...and do not get me started on the m-249 S.A.W.

reply to post by Keyhole


I guess small towns USA are getting ready to fight those pesky American insurgents brewing everyday in our soil, urban warfare is coming to your neck of woods.

reply to post by UFOTECH


I screwed up. I meant to say, "Not" using them for RPG protection. Thanks!

To take one out Molotov's cocktails in the engine cooling intake works good.

A metal welding powder called cadweld about 20 welding powder units in a can With a fuse dropped on the top would burn through and light the inside on fire. Cadweld burns at 3000 degrees.
www.erico.com...

A IED layed on the road camouflaged with trash would flip it over or blow a big hole in the bottom.

a long piece of pipe stuck in the tracks would have it turning in circles.

I have a 2 inch bore black powder cannon that would knock a nice hole in it.

The armor is only 2 inch aluminum. the bottom is 1/2 inch aluminum plate.

A APC is just a over sized people cooker.

The long pig is on the Barbeque.

Watch that cop try to man the BMG under sniper fire.

any ex jarhead would laugh at them just before he took them out.


[edit on 24-9-2008 by ANNED]

The NYPD has a Sherman tank with the .50 MG removed and the 76mm gun replaced with a battering ram.

Police use of armed APCs is very common outside of the US but almost all of those agencies (ex. the French Gendarmerie, Dutch Royal Constabulary, etc) are classified as part of the military itself as paramilitary police forces and not as civilian police forces like the Richland County SC Sheriff's Dept.

I can see the need for an APC ... but certainly not the mounted .50 MG.

Well a 113 is probably one of the most unintimidating tracked vehicles I have ever seen.
Not to mention as pointed out through out this thread their weaknesses.
Im sitting here trying not to laugh at those cops feeling hard core infront of their painted outdated rust bucket. AS for the M2 come on!!?????
Is that really needed where in the hell they plan on shooting that thing?
Anyone downrange of that is going to have a real bad day, I dont think they make subsonic rounds and low penetration rounds for it.
They can be a pain in the ass to shoot at a small target ie a person at more than 100 yrds and hit the first time so I think its a poor choice unless you plan on doing one of two things.

1. intimidating.

Or 2. gunning down a whole neighborhood.

Oh how cute.......

A molotov cocktail target.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Wow, I was hoping this thread would generate more interest from the cops are coming to get us crowd. I'd like to make a point that may not be properly thought out entirely but it just came to me. I have often wondered about certain police tactics used when it comes to hostage/unknown situations aka Columbine. Two douchbags taking their time walking around killing people in a highschool while an army waits for hours outside...I realize reality but what if just one officer had entered early on, unsure of the situation (as is often the case when alone) and had eventually taken out the duo? How many lives would have been protected and saved? I am not asking anyone to be suicidal but was anyone else pissed at the response time? This 50 cal would have sat outside with the rest of the wanna be army guys while two 150 pound weaklings did their bidding. Seriously though, when is enough enough and what are the city/county/state regulations concerning the purchase? Will my local, hilariously local cops get drones? Actually, I think that has already happend. What is going on?

ColoradoJens

The horror that was Columbine changed the way agencies all over the country now handle a situtation similar to the one that transpired in Littleton, CO.

Every law enforcement officer, from the patrolman on the street, to the SWAT Operator, to Federal Agents have been retrained and taught the "Active Shooter" program so that something like Columbine does not happen again. No longer will resources and personnel remain on the perimiter while gunmen blast away at civilians inside a structure.

While a tragedy, the silver lining is that law enforcement learned what to do and more importantly what NOT to do should such a situation present itself again. Something good did come out of something so sad and horrible.

As far as the original post....why they have a .50 cal gun is beyond me and I really dont know of any scenario that would justify having such a weapon on board an APC. The underlying "police state" and "New world order" posts are laughable though.

Originally posted by SwatMedic

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Wow, I was hoping this thread would generate more interest from the cops are coming to get us crowd. I'd like to make a point that may not be properly thought out entirely but it just came to me. I have often wondered about certain police tactics used when it comes to hostage/unknown situations aka Columbine. Two douchbags taking their time walking around killing people in a highschool while an army waits for hours outside...I realize reality but what if just one officer had entered early on, unsure of the situation (as is often the case when alone) and had eventually taken out the duo? How many lives would have been protected and saved? I am not asking anyone to be suicidal but was anyone else pissed at the response time? This 50 cal would have sat outside with the rest of the wanna be army guys while two 150 pound weaklings did their bidding. Seriously though, when is enough enough and what are the city/county/state regulations concerning the purchase? Will my local, hilariously local cops get drones? Actually, I think that has already happend. What is going on?

ColoradoJens

The horror that was Columbine changed the way agencies all over the country now handle a situtation similar to the one that transpired in Littleton, CO.

Every law enforcement officer, from the patrolman on the street, to the SWAT Operator, to Federal Agents have been retrained and taught the "Active Shooter" program so that something like Columbine does not happen again. No longer will resources and personnel remain on the perimiter while gunmen blast away at civilians inside a structure.

While a tragedy, the silver lining is that law enforcement learned what to do and more importantly what NOT to do should such a situation present itself again. Something good did come out of something so sad and horrible.

As far as the original post....why they have a .50 cal gun is beyond me and I really dont know of any scenario that would justify having such a weapon on board an APC. The underlying "police state" and "New world order" posts are laughable though.

100% agree, If they had this in the LA shoot out lives would have undoubtedly have been saved.

WTF ??????

i fully support the notion of police ` having the tools to do the job `

but WTF ???

that its NOT a police tool

if thier is time to deploy that white elephant from the police depot - there is time to get the national guard to deploy in a ` joint operation `

and as for using the M2HB in " law enforcement " that is a disaster waiting to happen

an earlier reply in this thread claimed that this would have provided a " solution " to the LA shoot out

err no it would not

a single 7.62 rifle in the hands of a police marksman would have privided a solutioin to the LA shoot out

reply to post by irongunner


if we are going to go all pedantic

the L4A3 is a machine gun - NOT an automatic rifle - and it is magazine fed , some soviet types also use magazines

there have ben NUMEROUS historic drum feed machine guns notably lewis / vickers [ some soviet block types are still in use with reserve units and client states ]

and hopper fed machine guns were common before the cloth belt then metal disintigrating link system became dominant

reply to post by SwatMedic


This is good to know - I admit total ignorance on this - is this a national program to be implemented everywhere? IMHO, GO GET THE BASTARDS!

reply to post by Keyhole

That claim that the military is reluctant to use the Browning .50 against personnel is a load of crap. It works great! I've seen folks blown in half by a 50 caliber hit.

In fact, I think all law enforcement officers should have such rigs. Sure stop a lot of this crap where folks seem to think it's open season on police officers.

And the psychological effect? A couple rounds of this bad boy will rapidly convince some criminal types to rethink their careers.

As DNC host Denver PD had at its disposal federal funds for convention security Denver City council did not get the opportunity to oversee the purchases made by the department due to cash thresholds.

Many items being purchased by the city with the $50 million in federal tax dollars designated for security at the convention will not go before the city council for approval, because the city representatives are only allowed to approve $50,000 or more for equipment purchases, or $500,000 or more for contracts, and many of the contracts and purchases do not meet those thresholds. Even city council representative Doug Linkhart, chair of the city’s safety committee, acknowledged at the time that there would be things even he didn’t know about with convention purchases.
coloradoindependent.com...

The ACLU has filed a suit demanding disclosure.

ACLU Sues Denver Seeking Disclosure Of DNC-Related Purchases Of Police Equipment. In refusing the ACLU's request for documents earlier this year, the lawsuit says, a representative of Denver's Department of Safety asserted that disclosure "could potentially disclose tactical security information of the Denver Police Department which would be contrary to the public interest."

"We believe the public interest is served by disclosing how the government is spending the public's money," said John Culver, who is handling the case as an ACLU Cooperating Attorney.

Mark Silverstein, ACLU Legal Director added that "Denver's unjustified penchant for secrecy" has led to speculation and rumors about the nature of the equipment Denver is acquiring.

"I do not believe that the public records at issue here contain the kind of ‘tactical security information' that Denver is reluctant to disclose," said Mark Silverstein, ACLU Legal Director. "Even if the requested documents did contain such information, the Colorado legislature addressed this issue in a 2005 amendment to the open records laws. The statute states that ‘specialized details of security arrangements' can be deleted, but the remainder of the documents—the portions that reveal how the government is spending our money—must be disclosed." www.aclu.org...

A good point made by the ACLU involves the publics right to assurances that manufacturer safety guidelines are in fact being followed that instructional training has been provided to officers in the use of whatever “less lethal weapons” might possibly be purchased in secret.

Some might argue in favor of law enforcements need for such equipment they may or may not be right. What I find most disturbing is how reminiscent this is of the very thing going on right now with our economy. Vast sums of money no checks and balances leaving the door open for corruption.

Maybe I’m just not getting it but it seems apparent to me that branches of government with access to public funds want to conduct business within their ever-expanding budgets without any oversight.

I can’t imagine this county in SC needing this kind of vehicle this is overkill imo. It really makes me wonder what other types of military equipment we’ll see being purchased in "secret" by other departments. WTH where is all this money coming from?

Originally posted by jerico65
You know, I sort of have to agree with you guys. Not that I'm worried about some fascist police state, but that just doesn't seem like a good purchase.

For that M2, ammo, maintenance, etc, how much body armor could they have bought for their officers? Patrol cars? Computers? Extra training?

Law enforcement agencies usually don't pay for the APC's, weapons, tents, helmets, and flack jackets. They get it from state funded grant programs/Demilled. Most LE aviation units are also from the same program. LE may use it but can't sell when they are done with it, it must be then returned and demilled so that it can't be used. The helicopters are surplus and the agency will get 5 or 6 total aircraft to make 1 or 2 serviceable aircraft. The LE agency then must use their funds to updated and equip.

I was a LE officer and our department got a number of items from this program to include M14/.308 automatic rifels and Bell LOACH type helicopters, like the Type on Magnum PI. These programs have been around for many years and this is nothing new.

The APC dosen't scare me but the M2/MA Deuce does. After being in the Army and law enforcement a M2 has no use in local LE. I am suprised they went with a tracked APC over a wheeled vehicle, but the M113 is one of the most produced APC's. Next we will see Law enforcement helicoters being armed.

reply to post by Jasestrong2


Thanks for the insight...

True, these types of weapons have no reason to be found in the hands of "local" law enforcement. Military is a different story.....depends on your enemy. Civilians are not the enemy.

I agree with the poster that said 7.62 is sufficient.

reply to post by Keyhole


Have any of you ever held a 50 cal shell for cripes sakes it weighs like a pound at the least! This is outragous and by no way ment to "save" anything. (Also they wont need a tank the gun can penitrate one.)

Nothing says "Knock it off!" better than a belt-fed Browning .50.

Welcome to America.

Sure they don't need a M113 with a .50 cal, but thats not the point.

We don't buy things cause we need them, we buy them cause we can. Its the American way. Why buy a pistol when you can buy an assault rifle? Why buy and assault rifle when you can buy a machine gun? Why buy a machine gun when you can buy a really big machine gun thats attached to an armored vehicle?

Material excess is just one of the things that makes America such a fun place to live.

Do I have a logical reason to own a Corvette over, say, a Ford Escort? I would have saved a lot of money, paid less for gas and insurance, and actually be able to carry groceries home. The reason is because I can.

Those guys just wanted a big manly gun they could take to the range and use to get their jollies by letting a few boxes fly and an intimidating (but largely useless) armored vehicle they could look cool in while rolling down main street in the 4th of July parade. Sure the dude says he bought it to "save lives." He can't get quoted saying he bought it cause he always wanted to run over a car in a tank.

Its a toy. Let the boys have their fun.