Go it alone or go with the crowd?

I'm interested in how many people here would go it alone during a disaster, or stick with the crowds, and possibly the groups rounded up by the authorities?

Watching the Hurricane Gustav reports on tv, i could'nt help wondering how many people here would happily go to the group shelters, especially after some of the stories of Katrina, or would you rather fend for yourself?

I think it all depends on the scenario. Natural disasters like Gustav, people are pretty much looked after in the group shelters.

I think the "go it alone" mentality would come into it's own during something like martial law or worse.

Having dependants, kids, partner or pets could be an issue too. I doubt you'd be flavour of the month if you grabbed your BOB and headed for the hills....leaving the other half on the doorstep!

Gustav brought another thing to my attention. Out of the many people here that have BOB's, supplies to last them through a nuclear winter and the likes.....i wonder how many have thier stuff stashed away from thier home?

If you were in New Orleans right now and you had all your gear at home, you'd be a bit stuck if you had a lot to shift.

I know it's been discussed here before, but i would have to think long and hard before i just buried many pounds worth of gear in the woods or in a lake. You never know who is going to suddenly come across it.

CX.

iv been through a few hurricanes, tropical storms powerful blizzards, one small earthquake and 3 active tornados in my life. i almost allways go it aloneits easier to fend for your self and maybe one or two others then try and get by with a large group competeing for resources, shelter and of course less chance of panic setting in when your alone then when your with a large group due to people spreading unfounded rumours and misinformation.

For me, whether it's a natural disaster of some type, or a martial law - FEMA Camp - red/blue scenario, I would strive to get as far from other people as possible. The thing about the two "types" of scenarios you describe, is that if the first type persists long enough, it will, 100% of the time, become the second type. As people endure hardship, society devolves as the needs of the self begin to take priority over the needs of others. As this happens, order breaks down. The more order is lost, the more it is imposed by authorities.

However, I'd never leave the other half on the door step. One of the main reasons for evading others is to protect my family. As scenario type one, degrades into a type two scenario, it is people that pose the greatest threat to me and my loved ones.

While completely feasible that my wife, two daughters and I could make it on our own this does not necessarily mean we'd do it alone. Small, preorganized groups working towards a common goal are certainly in the best position to succeed. This is why I feel it's important to have a small group of individuals that you trust with your life. For example, I have a pact of sorts with several other individuals and families. We've coordinated locations to meet in the event of the unthinkable. While we'll be avoiding the masses, we won't be limited to one perspective. Anyone here on ATS should be aware of the value of multiple perspectives during any type of analysis.

Well if it was a disaster type scenario then I would be called-in to work if I wasnt already there and so would my other half.

reply to post by Wotan


I guess then the question becomes, at what point do you leave your post? Is there a point where a natural disaster could become bad enough to force you to look out for number 1?

Originally posted by Unit541
reply to post by Wotan

 

I guess then the question becomes, at what point do you leave your post? Is there a point where a natural disaster could become bad enough to force you to look out for number 1?

Good question. I really dont know. It would depend I suppose on what the disaster is, its location to where I live/work and its perceived length of time. Most importantly, am I in danger from it.

Go alone. It takes a while for every one to realize that they have to be nice when things are bad and everyone has a firearm handy. Once people figure out that they have to play nice then I would think about grouping up.

Went through a bad storm in Oklahoma years back, no power no water and very hot. Lasted about 6 days. On day four local law enforcement showed up and asked if we were OK. He saw we were armed and figured we were taking good care of us and ours.

People who will take care of them self will be fine, people that look for some one to take care of them end up at the superdome.

Originally posted by CX
Having dependants, kids, partner or pets could be an issue too. I doubt you'd be flavour of the month if you grabbed your BOB and headed for the hills....leaving the other half on the doorstep!

And how many times mate have you thought of just grabbing the BOB after a few hours with the other half

Don't forget the Mental factor that comes with lonliness. Lonliness is one of the seven enemies of survival for a reason. It sneaks up on you, and can make you quite loopy (Lets not forget wilson from cast away). This mental factor leads to ill decision, wich leads to death (and for any cadets that know me) and dieing is bad. With proper training Lonliness can be overcomed, however Training can only go so far so who knows how long any individual can survive by thier selves. As to the actual decision I think there are many factors to bbe taken into concideration. Me personaly, there I too many people I would want to save for me to go it alone.

Stay FAAAAARRR away... take care of your family and ensure their health and safety by any mean necessary... ANY MEANS.... DO NOT BECOME A REFUGEE !!! Have your B.O.B and Battle bag ready.

reply to post by CX


As you have said this is something that we have talked about quite a lot on here, and personally I have always said I would probably go at it alone. I think your right in saying that how you react would be dependant on the situation itself.

The only time I would not attempt to go at it alone would be if I knew that I absolutely could not do it and I needed assitance, if I was severly injured for example.

I think the main benefit of looking after yourself and family is that you are solely responsible, i.e. you do not have to rely being "provided" with food from the government/aid workers etc

However, this benefit is also a burden so I think its sensible to advise that anyone who has any major doubts about fending for themselves not attempt it.

But as people have said, I would rather be responsible for my own safety than put my life in the hands of others.

[edit on 31/8/08 by Death_Kron]

One thing that I have noticed when this subject is mentioned is how quickly the discussion descends into an anarchy type situation where in reality things mostly dont go that far. Obviously there are exceptions but on the whole mostly these disasters do not descend to that level.

For us in the UK, the disaster scenario is more likely to be a flooding or severe storm or possible severe coldfront. Looking back over the past 40 years of such events, none have ever descended to anarchy type levels. The various SAR agencies including the Armed Forces have always responded well in these times as have the local Medical Teams and volunteer agencies.

I cant speak for the US but for us here in the UK, have a little faith in our local resources and agencies.

reply to post by Wotan


Here in the US if something real bad happens figure 4 to 6 days on your own. For that 4 to 6 days we will stay away from people. I was talking to the local red cross rep yesterday, when we had bad wildland fires last year she only had 38 people register with them, a lot of people where I live want to talk care of them self. In England you have a much higher ratio of SAR agencies than we have here in the states. This leads to a higher response level and an overall better program than we have here in the western US.

Another issue is the local idea of what a disaster is. If the locals do not think that an event is a disaster then its no big deal, take care of things and move on. Mind set is important. Local fires, wind storms and floods here where I live have been looked at as events but not disasters, in many locals here in the states they would have been "Disasters". That is one of the true benifits of people using this forum, you change your mind set as to what makes up a a true FUBAR and what is just another situation to deal with. Just thinking that you have prepared for an event makes it much easier to get through. When I was with Search and Rescue in Wyoming what generally determined if we were going to find some one alive or dead was if they let panic set in. Panic sets in start searching the highest point in the area, look for a trail of gear and go recover the body. No panic, look for smoke from a fire and start driving the 4x4 roads down low looking for some one wanting a ride.

my first blush was to go it alone, then I remembered how good having a team is. In Iraq my team was a self contained unit, we could do anything that we needed from within. That is what I would want, a team of highly dedicated (to the team) individuals.
The individualism keeps the team moving and acting on rational thought that has been tested by people who may not agree entirely, instead of a group of "yes" men that could be prone to acting on feelings and emotions,

Oh, and this may come as a shock to the ATS survival forums and it may be a first,

Given a team like the one I was in over seas, I would choose not to lead... it's not my specialty. Now don't get me wrong, I can and have lead; through some pretty #ty situations mind you, but I was more effective in other areas of specialization.

So, yes I would group and group wisely.

I already am covertly (meaning my friends don't know what I am up to) training the members that I have selected, or at least pushing there interests and hobbies in the right direction.

Originally posted by irongunner
my first blush was to go it alone, then I remembered how good having a team is. In Iraq my team was a self contained unit, we could do anything that we needed from within. That is what I would want, a team of highly dedicated (to the team) individuals.
The individualism keeps the team moving and acting on rational thought that has been tested by people who may not agree entirely, instead of a group of "yes" men that could be prone to acting on feelings and emotions,

Oh, and this may come as a shock to the ATS survival forums and it may be a first,

Given a team like the one I was in over seas, I would choose not to lead... it's not my specialty. Now don't get me wrong, I can and have lead; through some pretty #ty situations mind you, but I was more effective in other areas of specialization.

So, yes I would group and group wisely.

I already am covertly (meaning my friends don't know what I am up to) training the members that I have selected, or at least pushing there interests and hobbies in the right direction.

My friend, I agree there is nothing like a team of trained pros... when I was in the Marine Corps... our fireteam & squad was so tight house clearing was a thing of beauty... that cohesiveness , timing , awareness and instinct comes from lots of training time and trial and error and many spent rounds in mout town. In the civilian world you do not have this , so no matter how many times your friends play socom or counterstrike online it will not come together the way you think. we don't all have the same mentality and there is a reason your friends have not chosen to be warriors. I would be careful who you keep in your inner circle during sit x or a time of crisis. things may not pan out and you won't know how someone reacts under stress until... THEY ARE UNDER STRESS , then they can become , dangerous , irrational and unpredictible.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

My friend, I agree there is nothing like a team of trained pros... when I was in the Marine Corps... our fireteam & squad was so tight house clearing was a thing of beauty... that cohesiveness , timing , awareness and instinct comes from lots of training time and trial and error and many spent rounds in mout town. In the civilian world you do not have this , so no matter how many times your friends play socom or counterstrike online it will not come together the way you think. we don't all have the same mentality and there is a reason your friends have not chosen to be warriors. I would be careful who you keep in your inner circle during sit x or a time of crisis. things may not pan out and you won't know how someone reacts under stress until... THEY ARE UNDER STRESS , then they can become , dangerous , irrational and unpredictible.

That bit about counter strike is right in the ten ring. That is why we go camping and work on other skills that would be necessary.

I cannot tell you how much I miss having crates of ammo and time on a range. But, by far the best was the actual house clearing in Iraq. Each one is unique and offers new observations on technique... Like how to take down a six room house with nine people.

There simply arent a whole lot of people that can go it alone for an extended period of time. No one can simply do everything needed to survive indefinately starting from the contents of a BOB. A year, two, three? Sure, I could see that, but eventually lonliness will set in, or you break your leg, or a storm wipes out your crop/cache.

For a sit-x scenerio, have a group of people you can honestly depend on in your area as others have mentioned in this thread. Keep it small and make sure you have overlapping talents. One may be a surgeon, but be sure someone else has medical training as well. Redundancy wont hurt at all, no one shoulders one entire project, and everyone can contribute and learn.

If you dont have people like this around you, take care of your family. Teach them, train them, protect them.

As for a refugee. Never ever become a sheep. Once you are in a camp or shelter, you are no longer free. Rules, regulations, rationing. No, take care of yourself. Enough people allready cant do it for themselves.

That is the truth. any type of government aide is used as a control. Think of welfare as buying your vote... I don't know what I would do if I were stuck in a situation like Katrina, having survived the storm and having the police kicking in my door forcing me to leave.
Check out this video if you think the government has your individual needs in mind in an emergency.

Google Video Link

I have a Knack for reading between the lines. If the STHT you will fare ok , your friends maybe notsomuch. You need to get them used to being uncomfortable , sleep deprivation and hungry. Go camping allow them 4, 2 hour naps in a 48 hour time period. restrict their caloric intake Have them march in a circle for 5 miles then have them attempt to make a tent with 2 shelter halves , an odd number of tent pegs and rope that is too short. you will then know what you are working with. .... The point I'm making is people are un predictable..... go at it alone.

The Crucible