I homosexuality is an abomination and if so why?

Do you agree with the statement that that homosexuals are an abomination ?

If you do agree. why do you think you have come to this conclusion ?

homosexuals are not the abomination, homosexuality is. same as any other fornication, or thieving, or lying, or murder.

what i dont understand is why homosexuality is somehow "worse" in some christian minds than any other fornication

I think it has to do with what some gay men may be doing to each other.
Ordinary fornication would not look much different to an onlooker, than what a husband and wife would do.
But, if you were to observe two men together, you would notice a certain orifice being used in a way that God did not intend, obviously.
Anyway, that is my opinion, and having relations with animals would be perceived as unnatural, and would offend people, also.
A lot of the problem comes from people who are not gay imagining that people who are, came to that condition by choice.

reply to post by miriam0566

homosexuals are not the abomination, homosexuality is. same as any other fornication, or thieving, or lying, or murder.

Fornication is an abomination? How? Fornication is defined as sex between unmarried partners. This is bad? Please.....

You catagorize unmarried people having sex with with stealing, lying and killing people? That is some messed up thinking!



[edit on 9-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

reply to post by jmdewey60

I think it has to do with what some gay men may be doing to each other.

What are they doing to each other? Anal sex? Is it okay if a man and a woman have anal sex? For example, if my wife and I decide to go that way. Is this okay in your world?

But, if you were to observe two men together, you would notice a certain orifice being used in a way that God did not intend, obviously.

God did not intend? Really? He made us human and we as humans found that this can be enjoyable. God understands we are human and what comes with being human. It is quite okay with God!

Anyway, that is my opinion, and having relations with animals would be perceived as unnatural, and would offend people, also.

What the hell does sex with animals have to do with this thread or this conversation?


[edit on 9-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by miriam0566
homosexuals are not the abomination, homosexuality is. same as any other fornication, or thieving, or lying, or murder.

can you explain how you have come to this conclusion ?


what i dont understand is why homosexuality is somehow "worse" in some christian minds than any other fornication

I have been reliably informed that by many christians ( also many on ats) that the old testament no longer applies to them so logically , given that the " gay should be put to death rule" comes from the Torah christians shouldnt have a problem with homosexuality . Please correct me if you think I 'm wrong

reply to post by Excitable_Boy



Thnx for the input, a very reasonable response, obviously you are not a christian then ?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
But, if you were to observe two men together, you would notice a certain orifice being used in a way that God did not intend, obviously.
Anyway, that is my opinion, and having relations with animals would be perceived as unnatural, and would offend people, also.

Please explain , what is ordinary fornication exactly?


I may find people who wear cheap perfume offensive, does this give me the right to assume that it would offend everyone else. Does this give me the right to consider this person an abomination?


From your introduction of a god into your reasoning am I to assume your a Jew ? If you are a jew and obviously you consider a homosexual to be an abomination then may I also assume you would have him/her stoned to death as per instruction ?

Your obviously not a christian, as christians (so I've been informed by christians) are no longer accountable to the old testament as this was meant for the Jew and not them.

The homosexual abomination put to death thing , raises its ugly head in the Torah so logically christians shouldnt have a problem with the gay.

You also imply that you know what your god intended for each part of our bodies, could you be courteous enough to share the source of your information. Hypothetically I may someday need to know what exactly my appendix is for, before I have it removed should your god decide to kill me with it.

reply to post by moocowman


I was trying to be generous to gays and you act like this.
Good way to gain friends.
I am just giving my opinion of why I think people would find certain types of abominations more offensive than other abominations.
If you want to claim there is no abomination to be seen here, that is your opinion.
I do not want to argue with anyone about it.
I am entitled to feel it is an abomination and as long as I am not killing anyone, I have a right to feel that way.
How about you-all? Would you like to send me to a re-education camp for thought criminals?

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

What the hell does sex with animals have to do with this thread or this conversation?

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP is concerned with:

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

...but this verse is 2 verses later:

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Is it possible that the Original post came from this Biblical context AND is actually quite germane to the Biblical question that (I think?) the OP is asking?

No reason to send anyone anywhere. I think a misunderstanding of words took place.

Despite that I disagre about it being bad, I think it was clear that jmdewey was speaking not for all but for some and there is no doubt that some find homosexuality to be awful. In fact I think he was quite cool by saying somehting that many others fail to see which is that homsexuality often isn't a choice.

I may disagree dewey but i liked the calmness and clarity of the post.

-Kyo

reply to post by PreTribGuy

Is it possible that the Original post came from this Biblical context AND is actually quite germane to the Biblical question that (I think?) the OP is asking?

Maybe my problem is that since this thread is in the Religion, Faith, And Theology section, I thought it was OK to discuss the topic in a religious way.
I do not know what fantasy land they are living in where any religion accepts blatant sinful activity from the members of its congregation.
I do not know of any Christian church that has said that it accepts homosexual activity as being OK.
I do know about my own church accepting people who have a gay orientation, and are willing to be helpful to such persons.
I might have an inclination towards violence that I inherited.
I will always have to deal with desires to beat the crap out of people, and that inclination is not going to go away.
As long as I do not go ahead and put people in the hospital, I will be able to remain a member in good standing in my church.

reply to post by PreTribGuy

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP is concerned with:

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

You are correct with this part. The OP said nothing about sex with animals. YOU brought it up because in your misguided mind the two are the same.

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


here's the second half of the quote that you left out

...but this verse is 2 verses later:

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

same sin (fornication), same consequence (death), different verse.

reply to post by jmdewey60



Thanx for your view, it's appreciated that as a christian you dont seem to be getting all hystericl about this subject, which appears to be the case with some.

At the end of the day the original question is quite simple , and yes on the whole it would appear to get thrown back into a religious arena.

Perhaps this is because that the contempt for the homosexual, be it in the religious world or the secular world is in fact a direct result of centuries of apppalling religious persecution.

Throughout history there have been many societies where homosexual practices have been considered normal , please correct me if I'm wrong.

I am lead to conclude that the bulk of gay sexual bigotry is primarily the result of the bibles classification of this act as being an abomination punishable by death.

The picture I'm getting is that christians consider the homosexual act an abomniation, they also claim that the person that commits the act is not an abomination only the act.

When these people ar asked why they think this way about the homosexual, their replay is normally that the god of the bible tells them to think this way.

When the same people are asked, that if their god tells them to think that the homosexual act is an abomination, why do they not follow the rest of their gods instruction and put the offender to death?

Then normally things get a little silly when some of the christians try to explain this problem. Many christians claim they're no longer under old testament law and the requirement of them to put to death offenders of various biblical laws no longer applies.

How can a christian for example, think that homosexuality is an abomination because their god instructs it, but yet their God instructs them to kill the homosexual and they refuse to do this?


I dont particuarly care how christian churches choose to operate, but it strikes me as quite hypocritical to use a bible to dictate how to live but then not only to admit the homosexual into their congregation but to refuse to kill him, according to the bible law.


If the law in relating to the killing of the homosexual is no longer valid then the law in relation to the homosexual being an abomination can be no longer valid.

Before anyone ignorant enough to rant that I want gays killed starts posting rubbish replies, please dont bother as I believe I've made my position clear enough.

reply to post by miriam0566


I appreciate horse humpers etc fall into the same catagory as the homosexual according to the bible. But given the fact that it's not easy to show where the chicken gave consent and not wanting to digress from the topic, I will leave that one alone for now.

reply to post by miriam0566

here's the second half of the quote that you left out

...but this verse is 2 verses later:

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

same sin (fornication), same consequence (death), different verse.

Miriam.....you missed my point. My point was that the OP did not mention this "second half" of the quote. The "second half" of the quote Miriam, if you have been paying attention, was brought up by PreTribGuy.

And...once again, fornication is sex without marriage. It's 2008. It's okay with God for us to have sex without marriage. Give me a break.

Miriam...what does sex without marriage have to do with sex with animals? Is it the same in your world? Because if it is, I feel sad for the life you must be living and wonder:
A. Who taught you this? or
B. How you managed to come to this way of thinking on your own?

Do you enjoy sex? Because if you don't, that is an entirely different issue isn't it? If this is your problem, then you hide behind the bible to justify not having sex which you dislike. Sex is just to procreate for you? No enjoyment? No fun? No orgasms?

:shk:

But, God still loves you and all the rest of us sinners who don't live up to the high standards of Miriam.



And OP: I am most certainly not a Christian. I don't believe in religion. I didn't drink the Kool-Aid. I have God in my life and that is all I need!!

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

And...once again, fornication is sex without marriage. It's 2008. It's okay with God for us to have sex without marriage. Give me a break.

And God told you this on greeting card I guess? I'll pass on taking my spiritual advice from the prophet of Halmark.

The New Testament expressly forbids it in Romans 1. So it is NOT an Old Testament law issue.

*THUMP*

If you don't care what the Bible says - do what you want - by all means play like children - just watch out when Dad gets home.

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

It's okay with God for us to have sex without marriage.

THANK YOU for clearly making (at least one) distinction between 'having sex' and what is considered MARRIAGE in the Bible! (Accidental or not)

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

Miriam.....you missed my point. My point was that the OP did not mention this "second half" of the quote. The "second half" of the quote Miriam, if you have been paying attention, was brought up by PreTribGuy.

Because I have been mentioned in this paragraph, may I think I can feel free to respond?

Unless I'm thoroughly mistaken, the original poster has been "drilling down to" (more and more CLARIFYING) this (his) question from other previous posts. If I am mistaken on this, feel free (anyone) to correct me?

if you have been paying attention,

The OP's question is, however, a bit broader than what I've been following in his previous threads (or posts?)

Reading through the (quite calm) threads here allows one to get an idea of "what is being said...by whom" in this sub-forum of BTS. Unless 'moocowman' is several people, I think it 'ok' to allow a nickname to adequately represent his/her self in this forum over several days.

THUS, my (not Miriam0566, but MY) presupposition that 'moocowman' is taking the very "key" words from Lev. 20:13.

The ONLY time the word "abomination" occurs in Lev 20 is in the verse that condemns homosexuality!

Furthermore, as far as I can tell, the only time that the word "abomination" and the act of "homosexuals" is talked about is in 2 verses...both in Leviticus.

It is, therefore, no stretch of the honest man's imagination that the OP is thinking of one of these two verses.

THIS (below) is from the OP's follow-up posts (emphasis mine):

I dont particuarly care how christian churches choose to operate, but it strikes me as quite hypocritical to use a bible to dictate how to live but then not only to admit the homosexual into their congregation but to refuse to kill him, according to the bible law.

Clearly, the absence of any other "keywords" IN the the Old Testament, from the OP OWN WORDS...leads me directly, and ONLY to Lev 20:13 (for Lev. 18:22 says nothing about the punishment, and again, it is the only time 'abomination' is used in THAT chapter, also....)

NOW, because the OP (moocowman) has clearly restated his question, bringing in 3 points, I think it fair to discuss them?

1. Christian
2. Homosexuals
3. Kill them

Because my research over this weekend has left me with only one...ONE verse in the WHOLE BIBLE that has these three points to be discussed (Lev. 20:13), why would anyone think that more verses, from the same chapter, that give some context to the Bible verse in question is wrong?

Again, there is only one single verse in the entire Bible that offers all three of 'moocowman's' points. I don't think it unfair to bring verses, within the same chapter, into the conversation in order to inspect them, also.

I suppose and must allow that 'moocowman' might be reading another bible, or perhaps not the Bible at all, but I cannot find any verse in the Bible that describes what he/she intimates save for Lev. 20:13.