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Police Action and Perception

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posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 09:57 PM
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I just watched the film presented on this thread and I was rather amazed at what I saw. Taking everything with a grain of salt, I watched the video. Pushing aside the propaganda glaze on this doughnut of film, I watched the police and their reactions very, very carefully. Never mind the National Guard, look at the police.

Firstly, look at their riot gear. It borders on milspec. It's meant to intimidate, and to ward off protesters throwing everything from rocks to hand grenades. Is this how we outfit civil authorities? Now, look at their weapons. High- grade batons, ballistic shields, and semi-automatic grenade launchers. Judging by what I saw of this "black bloc", this was a bit much.

Now, look at the reactions of the police. They were ordered into bad situations, where they received constant abuse from less-than-civil protesters. They were stuck in positions where their options were limited- both by orders and by circumstance- to a point where they were antagonised and unabel to fufill their duties, reducing the level of morale and increasing anger. Alex jones said something along the lines of , "The police were like a rottwieller you've slapped around for a day on a short leash..." and that's not far from the truth. They were slapped around, and were loaded for bear. Now, when their masters let slip the dogs of war, how did you think they woudl react? they took their frustrations out on the protesters with excessive force. Watch the officers fire tear gas on a straight trajectory into the crowds, shot after shot. It started a chain reaction, where the average protester got angry and resisted, which made the police angrier, which escalated the whole situation. We failed to realize that these people were only doing their jobs.

Now, take this into consideration, namely because this is where the conspiracy part comes in:

1. The police are forced into action based on poor leadership decisions.

2. This results in a widespread view of the police being viewed as incompetent, barbaric, and not enough to stem the chaos.

3. The police have been suffering under cutbacks, outrageous aims, and continued public degradation in the media.

What, pray tell, is this leading to? Either privitization, or the militarization of civil authorities, neither of which is particularly pleasant.

Am I not correct? Is this not happening? Is this not possible, if nothing else?

DE

[Edited on 13-3-2004 by DeusEx]




posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:06 PM
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I've read somewhere that the police have at the big protests their own officers disguised as prostestors to instigate the protestors' anger. After the police fake protestors get the real protestors going, they withdraw, which then gives the police the right to use their unlimited force.

They are only doing their job, but sometimes events call for unusual actions, by what I've read.



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by DeusEx

What, pray tell, is this leading to? Either privitization, or the militarization of civil authorities, neither of which is particularly pleasant.

Am I not correct? Is this not happening? Is this not possible, if nothing else?



Deinitely possible. The NWO will use ever possible option open to them. Demonising the police and making people want them disbanded and replaced by either private forces or military units is a typical PRS scam.



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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beauty.


I posted this on that earlier thread. Read everything I said, I'm not going to type it again but I will repsond more later.



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by IMMORTAL
I've read somewhere that the police have at the big protests their own officers disguised as prostestors to instigate the protestors' anger. After the police fake protestors get the real protestors going, they withdraw, which then gives the police the right to use their unlimited force.

They are only doing their job, but sometimes events call for unusual actions, by what I've read.


I very much doubt that the police themselves would do that. Some other agency at work, perhaps. But police have enough bad press as is, and get chewed out by their superiors for excessive force. Also, it would mean teh risk that an unknowing officer might injure another. At any rate, look at the protests in Queen's park, or Concordia University. Both turned very ugly, very fast. This isn't limited to just the states.

DE



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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here's my thread on Sherman Austin, read the editorial I wrote, its basically my feelings on what we've got to do to stop this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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I can't say I'd be running through the streets smashing windows and overturning dumpsters.

I can't say I'd have the creativity to make banners and paint catchy slogans on walls and cars.

I can't even say that I'd be standing in the crowd.

But I can say that if I'm not doing at least one of those, I can't say anything to get anyone else to do it for me.

So it's time to stand up and quit sulking in the shadows, wrapped in lust and lunacy as we scrawl theories of revolution. The word is on the tip of our tounge, which we bite before taking a breath. We hide our plans and poetry in notebooks, which are buried or burned. And then there are those just like us, supposedly, but are actually trying to destroy us. And we are beaten. we are gassed. And we are jailed...for standing in a crowd, and trying to escape from the shadows.

Unfortunately, most of us will crawl back to the darkness and save up our thoughts and screams for the rest of our lives. But being thrown down is just making me want to get up and scream louder than before.

Now, I can't say that I'm going to. But if I don't, I will have lost a battle with power, and dead with me is the passion to overthrow it.



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:46 PM
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We're here, adn that's a start. most people don't even see the problem, see the freedoms being gradully taken away. They don't see our police forces slowly militarizing into a group of jackbooted thugs. They don't see the National Guard combing the streets, they don't see the peaceful protesters. They see what they want to see.

Breaking free of that is a step in teh right direction.

DE



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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It is a step in the right direction DE....but the only problem is this (kill me for using a cliche!):
Seeing that the door is open and walking through it are two completely different things.

Now right here I could totally bust out with my Wednesday Window Theory. And I think I will! This is all what really happened, but I think of it all as symbols. So yeah.

I was kicked out of class one day for not having my stuff and just working on my zine instead of discussing A Tale of Two Cities. So I'm sitting outside the door by the window, with thoughts of taking off and skipping town racing through my head. I'd been packing my bag every day with the intention of leaving, but hadn't. So I'm sitting by the window just seeing how beautiful the sunflowers were outside, and how all I would have to do would be to open up the door and walk away...never come back. But then I thought that this would be like abandoning the problem, running away from something I was afraid of. So I decide, I'll just fight and grow the flowers in here too. Yet after this second epiphany I had a third. The reason that I wasn't changing anything, no matter how hard I tried, was because I had never been outside to see how it really was, I had never smelled the sunflowers.

How does this tie into police?

Whether or not you're a window smashing anarchist or a peaceful sign holder, you can't change an unexposed place without first being exposed. The kids like me, the kids trapped in no name towns with dreams and visions of revolution big enough to blow up the WTO, but that have never actually escaped from this prison, are fighting losing battles.

We have to get to the source.

Know the door is open, walk through it, and then bring a sunflower back inside.



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by IMMORTAL
I've read somewhere that the police have at the big protests their own officers disguised as prostestors to instigate the protestors' anger. After the police fake protestors get the real protestors going, they withdraw, which then gives the police the right to use their unlimited force.


ive heard diferently, and more interesting


about half of the stockholm underground dressed up as police officers, the other half took tot he streets. rioting window shmashing, etc. when the police force comes in, the underground police starts attacking the, saying they were fakes. most of the police force doesnt know their own men, so they start beating up each other, but the underground knows whos real and whos with them, so they steer clear. as it ends up, no one was tried because they couldnt distinguish real from fake. and it was police v. police...with the rioters laughingin the background.

nice huh?

i thought it was fabulously ingenious



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 11:46 PM
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That isn't cool. The police are normal people, who are ordered to do what they do. They see people as a threat to public order, which in thsi case they were. The Deus does not approve. The police may not be our friends, but they're not our enemies either.

DE



posted on Mar, 13 2004 @ 11:54 PM
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I would agree with DE, the police are just like you and me only they can be part of the problem due to their unbreakable sense of duty and commitment to order, but that doesnt mean they should be harmed for their job.



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by Agent47
...the police are just like you and me only they can be part of the problem due to their unbreakable sense of duty and commitment to order...


In fact, they're jsut like every other person out there. The bussinessman doesn't want the havoc, neither does anyone else. They're not against you. The bussinessmen, the janitors, the teachers have the same commitments- the only difference is that the policeman's job is to uphold those commitments. Think about that the next time you give the bronze trouble.

DE



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by DeusEx
I just watched the film presented on this thread and I was rather amazed at what I saw. Taking everything with a grain of salt...
Firstly, look at their riot gear. It borders on milspec. It's meant to intimidate, and to ward off protesters throwing everything from rocks to hand grenades...


I'm glad that my post actaully helped someone see what's going on. =)



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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speaking as a former law-enforcement officer.......i know exactly what you are saying. i have never been in a riot but close to it. basic law-enforcment response is to come in with overwhelming numbers, a show of force, that's one of the reasons why you always see 5-7 cops approaching a 'suspect'. show them that there are to many to even think about trying to take on or run away from. now in a riot situation, the cops are out-numbered so they try to look as big and bad as possible...use the 'badge' has a shield...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

one of the things i learned during my law-enforcing years is that police are just human. all the failings, bigotry and some compasion are there also. if you don't think that cops can and will take some of their..shall we say, attitudes..out on suspects..i got some land for sale in death valley for you. so..put cops, in riot gear, which they probably have not used or trained in more than a couple times, with 'less than leathal weapons, with their backs aginst a wall with orders to dissperse or contain the situation....people will get thumped on.

use the 'badge has a shield' mentality is very large in law-enforcement. back in the day we provided secruity for a large outdoor music festivale. music almost all day and camping, 8-10,000 people a day, for 4 or 5 days, easily 5 sq miles of ground. how many cops do you think patroled the area??? hmmm 50? 65? 100? 125? you better sit down....18 during the day...42 on a good night and that includes the big-wig officers who are in a command center.
now add some poor leadership, and the above mentioned points and what do you get...somebody is gunna get thumped on.

cops have a tough job and they THINK they are moraly and logicaly right in thier actions. but....... just because 'it's a law' does not mean that it is right or even truely legal



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 10:24 AM
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personally, I think any riot where police have to be called in is one that's lost its purpose. If police have to show up to break something up, then something advocating freedom and peace has completely turned away from what its supposedy trying to do. I read an article covering a riot in LA and at first people were going to actually protest, it got violent, police came in, and then many protesters say that more people showed up "for the party." Nobody even remembered their purpose.

Police brutality against rioters and rioter brutality against police. They're both equally rotten and unneccesary.

*The Stockholm Action is a prime example of this. The purpose behind the riot was lost, and the only thing anyone remembers was the riot itsself.

But still, it was ingenious.

The police being there isn't the problem. The fact that they HAVE to be is.



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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Riot Police are needed in such situations as last years mega riot in Lansing Michigan after the one huge Michigan State game, or any other sporting event where people just start freaking out and trashing things. I dont consider those events of peace and brotherhood.



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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Scroll up and look at thepicture I posted.

THATS what I'm rooting for. I don't know why, but that picture is just like...WOW! I LOVE IT!



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by Scat
Scroll up and look at thepicture I posted.

THATS what I'm rooting for. I don't know why, but that picture is just like...WOW! I LOVE IT!


Ah I see what you mean.



posted on Mar, 14 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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The fact that police have to be called in to controll an event supposedly advocating peace....this stumps me. Wouldn't you think the rioters are peaceful people? Guess not!

I don't have a problem with protests really, if somebody can get out there and scream their opinion, power to them. But when things start to get violent the purpose is lost, ya know?

Spray painting, wheat pasting, and sign posting are things that should be done in very small groups under the cover of night.

Subtle images are the way to go, trashing out at riots just gets everybody pissed because nobody understands whats going on. But if somebody wakes up in th morning and it driving to work and reads something painted on agiant wall...people will actually see what you are saying instead of just blowing it off as "trashing" something in a riot.

Or at least, that's my opinion.



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